Summarize your objections to feminism, either as a theory or as you see it being practiced, in up to three one-sentence bullet points.

Lady_Coraline2 · 2019-12-03T14:55:08+00:00

Women are not helpless, agency-less victims, but benefit from and play an outsize role in perpetuating the system of gender norms erroneously referred to as "patriarchy".
Either gender is an artificial social construct that can be chosen and changed or it's something meaningful and important enough to explicitly organize your communities around. Pick one.
The existence of female abusers, who by definition have more power and agency than their male victims, and the fact that mothers are routinely given complete and total control over male children means that misandry can never be dismissed as merely irritating.

TheToxicWyvern · 2019-12-03T15:46:11+00:00

Ignoring, minimizing and/or denying the forms of cultural ans institution problems that men face. On the rare occasion men's issues are acknowledged, they're used to push the patriarchy narrative even though a patriarchy by definition would never hurt men.
Treating Men as a monolith (Toxic Masculinity, All men are trash, supporting policies that punish all men because 1 man did something wrong).
Using out-dated stats half-truths, and flat-out lies to justify their anti-male believes and policies.

Forgetaboutthelonely · 2019-12-03T17:29:05+00:00

Too many misandrists in power. I said this elsewhere but "you may argue that those women don't represent feminism, in which case i would still say the movement is doing a pretty shit job at keeping people who don't represent them from positions of power within it"
The hypocritical notion that they fully understand the emotions and thoughts of men while in the same breath condemning men who attempt to say the same for women.
The constant push to say that the words we use are a powerful tool to reinforce sexist norms (Fireman vs firefighter) all while pushing terms like "toxic masculinity"
The idea that men and solely men have to be better when it comes to issues like romance. (there's a reason we don't see body positivity campaigns for men)

cromulent_weasel · 2019-12-03T21:42:20+00:00

I really only have one:

I think that Domestic violence and sexual assault are things which both parties are equal offenders in (cf the Dunedin Study), whereas mainstream feminism paints them problems where men are the offenders and women are the victim.

So yeah. I think most major male problems aren't actually caused by feminism at all. Things like higher mortality levels, homelessness and worse access to mental health services etc I think are wider societal problems that we experienced even prior to womens liberation. Women aren't the cause of all of our problems any more than we are the cause of all of women's problems.

heimdahl81 · 2019-12-03T23:39:21+00:00

Gender rights movements outside feminism are still potentially valid and men deserve the same ability to sustain a gender rights movements as women.
Misandrists should not be allowed to use feminism as a weapon and should not be enabled by feminists who protect them.
Equal responsibility is just as necessary as equal rights.

thereslcjg2000 · 2019-12-04T03:13:48+00:00

Let me preface this by emphasizing that I don't dislike feminism in theory, nor do I think most feminists are bad people. However, I think the current iteration of the movement has some very problematic aspects. I agree with most of what's been said here, and I have a few other points:

It uses fear mongering to make women feel like victims in situations that are not statistically dangerous (i.e. walking on the street).
It often uses an oddly right-wing capitalist rhetoric that suggests a person's worth is dependent on how high-paying and prestigious their job is.
It tends to use a "with us or against us" mindset that places people who support but critique modern feminism on the same level as raging red pillers and MGTOWs who think that feminism and the very existence of women are directly responsible for every imperfection our world has.

2019-12-03T15:54:08+00:00

I wouldn't call myself anti-feminist, but most of the problematic aspects of it that I see derive from the following causes:

The rigid assumption that men are the oppressor class and women are the oppressed class and sexism is unidirectional.
The downplaying or ignorance of biological factors

That's about the main two.

EDIT: I'd add a third: the vagueness and changing definitions of terms such as "patriarchy".

Blauwpetje · 2019-12-03T15:47:40+00:00

Denying biological differences 2. Double standards around sexuality, shaming men 3. The myth that women had to 'win' equal rights fighting 'patriarchy', while in fact since the beginning of the 2th wave around 1970, society at large did everything to safeguard those 'equal rights' and more.

serpentineeyelash · 2019-12-04T13:53:13+00:00

It's hard to boil down to just three, and of course I should say not all feminists, but here goes:

Feminism is an ideology that demonizes men by exaggerating female disadvantages, male aggression, and male power; while downplaying male disadvantages, female aggression, and female power.
Despite claiming to be a movement for gender equality, in practice feminism is a movement to increase the power of women in every circumstance and take the woman's side in any heterosexual relationship dispute.
The way men are told to submit to feminist women’s opinions is arguably systemic psychological abuse of males, and an ideological blank cheque which could be used to justify any exploitation of men.

I also agree with the bullet points listed by yourself, u/AskingToFeminists, u/TheToxicWyvern, u/Forgetaboutthelonely, u/cromulent_weasel, u/heimdahl81, u/Blobbartus, u/thereslcjg2000, u/Blauwpetje (though not so much his third point), u/ParanoidAgnostic, u/liztu_june, u/Sewblon, and u/czerdec. (And there may be others I missed.)

ParanoidAgnostic · 2019-12-04T01:53:43+00:00

I'll start by clarifying that my objections are to the currently dominant incarnation of feminism. There have been and are many feminisms and I support a large subset of these.

It ironically reinforces the core of patriarchy which is female hypoagency and male hyperagency.
It is collectivist in its approach, seeing only genders, not individuals.
It controls the discussion on gender issues while being built almost entirely on the perspectives of women and actively rejecting the perspectives of men.

liztu_june · 2019-12-04T04:36:52+00:00

Feminism wants to control male sexaulity while complain about how female sexaulity is surpessed.
Feminism what freedom to choose to be mothers but will complain when a man dosnt want to be a father before the child born.
Feminist will ignore there prilavge they have while accusing men of being prilvage.

Sewblon · 2019-12-04T07:57:37+00:00

Men suffer from disadvantages that are not caused by discrimination against women, like educational disadvantages for instance ( Stoet, Gijsbert; Geary, David C. (2015). "Sex differences in academic achievement are not related to political, economic, or social equality". Intelligence. 48: 137–151. doi:10.1016/j.intell.2014.11.006. )
When it comes to deciding how a household interacts with itself, it is women who usually hold power. For how this worked historically, see this video by Lindybeige. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPmbDPsyt6I For how this works now, note that a Pew survey found that women make most household level decisions (The Boy Crisis by Warren Farrel).
Domestic violence is not caused by men trying to maintain control over women in the face of changing gender norms. Women are as likely to be the one who initiated force as men are: (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/232559408_The_Gender_Debate_About_Intimate_Partner_Violence_Solutions_and_Dead_Ends). Domestic violence is as prevalent or more prevalent among same-sex couples as it is among opposite sexed couples. ( Stiles-Shields, C; Carroll, RA (2015). "Same-Sex Domestic Violence: Prevalence, Unique Aspects, and Clinical Implications". Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy. 41 (6): 636–48. doi:10.1080/0092623X.2014.958792. PMID 25189218. )

I know that that is more than one sentence per-point. But I wanted to show my sources.

czerdec · 2019-12-04T11:31:23+00:00

Presents itself as scientifically valid knowledge: is not.

I oppose it for the same reasons most feminists oppose climate change denialism.

GaborFrame · 2019-12-05T20:02:08+00:00

The terms "patriarchy" and "toxic masculinity" are so malleable and unfalsifiable that they are both useless and dangerous.
It is often asserted by feminists that one should reverse the genders in one's statements to see whether it sounds ridiculous, but it seems like feminists do not follow that advice very consistently themselves.
Equality of outcome is a pointless objective.

TotesMessenger · 2020-03-03T04:01:26+00:00

I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

[/r/circlebroke2] From LeftWingMaleAdvocates everyone

^{If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads.} ^(Info ^/ ^Contact)

Title	Summarize your objections to feminism, either as a theory or as you see it being practiced, in up to three one-sentence bullet points.
Author	Lady_Coraline2
Upvotes	35
Comments	35
Date	December 3, 2019 2:55 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/e5i7se/summarize_your_objections_to_feminism_either_as_a/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/summarize-your-objections-to-feminism-either-as-a.1064346 https://theredarchive.com/post/1064346

Comments