A major problem with feminism is that they tolerate the lies of other feminists. We need to be on watch for that with the MRM.

ExistentialEnso · 2011-04-24T20:57:59+00:00

Let's also make an effort to call out misogyny. Feminism tolerates misandry, we shouldn't do the same with misogyny.

selfsufficientnigga · 2011-04-24T18:52:20+00:00

I agree. There's no point in opposing feminism if we're going to become no better than them.

FreddyDeus · 2011-04-24T19:15:40+00:00

I agree entirely. I hope I haven't been guilty of misleading others myself, although it is easy to do so inadvertently.

Sadly, I have also noticed that an increasing number of comments in r/MensRights are little more than vitriolic, hateful rants or wild assumptions based on little evidence or experience.

I don't want to be associated with something that looks and feels exactly like the thing I'm supposed to be opposing.

Celda · 2011-04-24T19:43:57+00:00

Men's rights doesn't have to support an ideology. As we don't need to find proof of a mythical patriarchy or signs of non existent oppression we have no need to fabricate evidence.

On the other hand... we can't stop people from identifying as men's rights activists. If a genuine crazy misogynist also supports men's rights then he is a men's rights activist.

I think the important thing to do is to differentiate between what men's rights activists want as a movement and what individuals who also identify as men's rights activists believe.

aetheralloy · 2011-04-24T21:15:58+00:00

I think that is an oversimplification of what feminism does.

It isn't that feminism is just hypocritical and intellectually dishonest, and that the MRM needs to be based on science. It is that feminism uses a left-hand/right-hand technique that is hard to counter unless you do the same.

The way it works is:

The "left-hand" of feminism uses shaming/intimidation/skewed data/emotional arguments/screaming - it is the "feminazi" side and the type that pushes for the anti-male legislation/policies.
The "right-hand" of feminism uses cajoling/supported data/also shaming/debate - it is the "we are egalitarian" side and the type that puts on a happy face to try and get MRA's to get under the feminist umbrella.

Together, the right-hand generally ignores or support what the left-hand is doing and vice-versa. They let the other work unimpeded. At best you'll hear a "NAFALT" thrown out, but nothing substantial ever happen. The "preponderance of evidence" issue is a perfect example of that. None of the usual right-hand NAFALTS here have said word-one about it, they are just letting it happen by doing nothing.

So while you engage in logical debate with the right-hand, the left-hand is going around on the other side and getting anti-male policies enacted at colleges. You get all emotional manipulation based going against the left-hand, the right-hand comes around on the other side getting support by appearing to be inclusive and logical. You can't fight just one side or you'll get hammered by the other.

Emotional appeals are just as strong as logic, religion just as socially powerful as science. Denying such just means the MRM will be fighting with one hand tied behind its back.

ignatiusloyola · 2011-04-24T19:53:54+00:00

We try very hard to be. The problem is that the extremists can be very vocal. I have tried to counter when extremists and others go too far, try to make connections that don't exist, or even just use fallacious arguments, and I get called a feminist or a variety of other names simply because I am expecting intellectual honesty and integrity from my fellow MRAs.

Scott2508 · 2011-04-24T19:55:14+00:00

i cant see it happening , we have a high level of intolerance to BS and we know the flaws and have the potential to actually go down like a ton of bricks on someone for doing it .

Celda · 2011-04-24T21:36:47+00:00

[permanently deleted]

sky33dive · 2011-04-24T22:59:31+00:00

Great point Celda. I think that's why I have stuck with MRM. MRA's call me out if I don't include citations. I think it's a strongpoint.

NiceIce · 2011-04-24T19:37:10+00:00

I also agree, and try to always back up any claims with facts.

selfsufficientnigga · 2011-04-25T00:53:30+00:00

We need to make sure the MRM, unlike feminism, is based on logic, accurate statistics, and truth, instead of appeals to emotion, doctored stats, and blatant lies. If we fail to do so, it only makes it easier for us to be attacked and discredited.

Why is feminism so successful then?

hata_filter · 2011-04-25T03:00:36+00:00

She refers specifically to "domestic violence courts". What are those, and what standard of proof do they use?

I don't know anything about the US or Californian legal system.

nepidae · 2011-04-25T03:17:07+00:00

The first step to this is to remove emotion from arguments. You cannot have rational discussions when both sides are fighting with their feelings (this is different than fighting with feeling.)

imbecile · 2011-04-25T09:30:15+00:00

There is a difference: Feminism is based on a lie, namely patriarchy. If there was honesty, feminism as we know it today would not exists at all.

The things that MR is concerned about are real institutions and policies.

Demonspawn · 2011-04-24T20:09:00+00:00

Does this mean the MRM will move away from the falsehood that men and women are equal?

Title	A major problem with feminism is that they tolerate the lies of other feminists. We need to be on watch for that with the MRM.
Author	Celda
Upvotes	104
Comments	109
Date	April 24, 2011 6:40 PM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/gwfnd/a_major_problem_with_feminism_is_that_they/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/a-major-problem-with-feminism-is-that-they.1040587 https://theredarchive.com/post/1040587

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