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Lichu12
[–]Invaughncible 133 points134 points135 points 7 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
The replies to the tweet are a bit disheartening. A lot of men saying “my dick works so it’s fine”. I don’t know how some people have such a lack of perspective.
[–]fuckaredditor 40 points41 points42 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I'm circumcised. I've never considered it to be a big deal mostly because I'll never know what I'm missing; I feel that's the common theme for anyone not fully comprehending the situation. I understand that it's medically unnecessary and a form of genital mutilation. Should I ever have a male child, I'd forgo the operation and let him decide.
[–]Invaughncible 24 points25 points26 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is unironically the best take to have. I’m glad it hasn’t been a big deal to you; everyone deserves to feel secure with their body. Personally I’m not against the operation, I just think it’s important for people to have autonomy over their bodies and that’s the most important thing we can agree on.
[–]jags85 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I guarantee your future son will thank you for it.
[–]thisguy223455 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I feel destroyed from having this done, I'm not thanking my parents
[+][deleted] -17 points-16 points-15 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I really doubt it lmao. It’s not that big of a deal.
[–]ImOnlyChasingSafety 50 points51 points52 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
It’s pretty typical whenever there’s a discussion on the necessity of circumcision that men will defend it because it happened to them rather than recognise that being against circumcision doesn’t have to mean hating their own penis or whatever.
[–]414RequestURITooLong 37 points38 points39 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
It's not even about "being against circumcision". Adults should be free to have as many unneeded surgeries as they want, and to randomly remove whichever parts of their body they want removed.
If circumcision is so awesome as they apparently believe, their children will absolutely jump at the first opportunity to get their penises mutilated. They should just give them circumcision vouchers for their 18th birthdays.
[–]ImOnlyChasingSafety 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
I’m all for people being able to choose, but really the problem is that many children don’t get to choose.
[–]LawUntoChaos 11 points12 points13 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think that's the point that OP was making.
[–]allonsy_badwolf 12 points13 points14 points 7 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
Have kind of a weird work environment but this topic came up at work. Every man was pro circumcision while I, the only woman, was against it.
Their main argument was that they knew a british kid in elementary school who wasn’t cut and they made fun of him as sock dick and therefore all men should be circumcised.
I didn’t even really know what to say to that, but I did ask why they spent so much time thinking about another kids dick but they had no answer.
[–]jp_mra 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
As a guy I didn't see what the big deal was at first. 'I'm cut and I feel fine.' It wasn't until I looked up the arguments against it that I eventually changed my mind. Just ask them to look up the debate in their free time.
Little boys do immature things. We'd also tease boys who had their belly buttons on the outside. None of it is remotely traumatizing enough to justify chopping parts of a penis off.
[–]DescendingFire 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Sturgeon's law strikes again.
[–]Svenskbtch 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Are not many victims of (I presume the less egregious types of) FGM saying something similar? Well perhaps they do not come from a culture where it is completely ok to talk about how well your vagina works, but something about how they are happy to uphold tradition perhaps?
[–]obries39 55 points56 points57 points 7 years ago* (23 children) | Copy Link
I've never understood why people, particularly non-religious people, or of other religions that don't have this practise still circumcise their kids. Like, I get that it has some particular health advantages, but why not let them grow up and decide if they want to it themselves? . . . I'm glad I'm from Europe, we don't really circumcise here.
[–]postmanpazza 42 points43 points44 points 7 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
The only reason people say its better is be cut is because its cleaner. Just shower jesus.
Uncut penis's also have more sensitivity to them since they arn't exposed to constantly rubbing against your underwear.
[–]MarsNirgal 21 points22 points23 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Whenever I read people saying that an uncut penis is unclean I wonder if they know that you're supposed to wash your dick, cut or uncut.
[–]PreInfinityTV 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
ive seen a lot of women say 'it looks better'
[–]MarsNirgal 26 points27 points28 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
That's because they are used to it. If they had grown up in a society without circumcision, they probably would think that uncut dicks look better.
[–]LettuceBeGrateful 23 points24 points25 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That's exactly what I've seen. European women who comment on these topics usually say that circumcised penises looked dried out, and the scar is weird. It's all cultural.
[–][deleted] 17 points18 points19 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I think it's incredibly gross that they would prefer mutilated genitals, or think it in any way socially appropriate to share that preference.
[–]chinawinsworlds 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Nah, I get them, circumcised women are also way, way hotter! But that's probably not allowed to be said, huh...
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Exactly. I find roast beef flaps so unappealing. Women who have had their labia majoria surgically removed just look so much cleaner, you know? :)
[–]chinawinsworlds 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Unironically true.
[–]postmanpazza 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Do we actually care what women think of our foreskin or lack of? Lmao. I think people would rather feel more than have it look better.
Im pretty sure that’s statistically true but that’s probably due to it looking simpler/easier to look at/cleaner.
[–]platesizedareola 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Only American ones. I think cut ones look nasty.
[–]bhullj11 25 points26 points27 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Apparently the AAP and CDC still recommend the practice. It's pretty hilarious because the benefits they claim are that it reduces HIV transmission, STDs, and penile cancer, although all of their HIV and STD studies are based on studies from Africa. Yes, Africa, a continent where people are not as educated on modern hygiene practice and condoms aren't available. If you want to reduce the risk of getting a STD just wear a condom.
[–]LettuceBeGrateful 21 points22 points23 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
The AAP doesn't even recommend it, they just say that parents should be permitted to decide for their kids. That's why the statement "no pediatrics organization recommends routine infant circumcision" is technically true.
And yeah, the CDC recommendation is based on verifiable horseshit. The "male circ prevents HIV" thing in general is a racket. A few weeks ago, a guy linked me a study that claimed circumcision reduced HIV by 99%. It was based on a misapplication of statistics that even a third grader could spot, but that didn't stop the study's author from making the claim in his abstract.
[–]teelolws 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It was based on a misapplication of statistics
Do share
[–]LettuceBeGrateful 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Sure! Here's the article in question:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19745498
Relevant excerpt from the abstract:
The global epidemiology data clearly indicates a reduction of over 99.9% in HIV prevalence in countries where [the circumcision] rate is over 80%.
This statement is total horseshit for several reasons. I'm going to list all of them, even though #5 could be waived away as subjective.
The authors claim the data "clearly indicates a reduction." To demonstrate a reduction, you need at least two points in time. Instead, in the authors' own paper, they list Algeria and Australia as currently meeting the statement's criteria, but there is no indication of a reduction over time of 99.9%. Australia's own data, which they acknowledge and ignore, shows only a 20% reduction. For Algeria, only a single point in time is cited.
They selectively list countries with high rates of circ and low rates of HIV, but they fail to properly explain away the United States, which has always had high (for first-world countries) rates of both HIV and circumcision. Their defense includes citing an outdated AAP paper to draw a contemporary conclusion, and formatting their citations to falsely imply that their unfounded statements are supported by the reference literature.
They fail to control for confounding factors. America is a very sexually active nation. Surely, nations with much more traditional values would show different results? For example, the USA has 10x more HIV diagnoses per capita than Japan. In America, that generation's circumcision rate is about 80-90%, while Japan's circ rate is <1%. If America is so circumcised, why so many cases of HIV? Clearly, other significant factors are at play.
The actual scientific trials that they cite only claim a protective benefit of ~1.5%. The 99.9% number is based on the authors' own crappy conclusions.
Common sense. No way in hell has circumcision ever been more effective than vaccines at preventing anything, which is why condoms (and general safe sex practices) are still promoted as HIV prevention.
Phew. Apologies. That was way longer than I expected.
[–]intactisnormal 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Apparently the AAP and CDC still recommend the practice.
Common misperception. The AAP dances around the wording with benefits to risks, but they don't recommend it. CDC talks about HIV in certain countries with a just as big a caveat how it's partial protection among several methods, bit still doesn't actually recommend it.
So not a single medical organization in the world actually recommends circumcision.
[–]jp_mra 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
And chopping women's breasts off prevents breast cancer.
Still doesn't make it right.
[–]teelolws 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I say we start advocating for decapitations.
Advantages:
It will solve the growing world population problem
People can't get cancer if they're dead
[–][deleted] 19 points20 points21 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Because it causes psychological problems.
Violently abused children become child abusers
Sexually abused children become pedophiles
Cut children become cutters
[–]LettuceBeGrateful 15 points16 points17 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The worst, most immature comments I've seen defending circumcision have all been from fathers who circumcised their sons. I'm talking incoherent, no-punctuation babbling, petty insults, emojis galore, and when all that fails to sway anyone, temper tantrums.
[–]obries39 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Sorry, I don't really get the relevance of this response to my comment?
[–]mgtowolf 21 points22 points23 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Men who are circumcised are less likely to see issues with it, while natural men are more likely to see it as completely loonytunes.
[–]obries39 9 points10 points11 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Ah okay! I understand now. Yes I agree.
[–]inspire-change 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
uncut guys don't need lube for slow masturbation. cut guys need lube. the origin of circumcision was to deter masturbation.
[–]jp_mra 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
the origin of circumcision was to deter masturbation.
source?
[–]JcbAzPx 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
While it's hard to know the religious origins since that was so long ago, in America, at least, we know that's exactly how it started.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harvey_Kellogg#Masturbation_prevention
Obligatory yes that Kellogg.
[–]jp_mra 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
I'm already aware of Kellogg, but not convinced he was the major influence. Circumcision is just as common in Islamic countries, and Muslims have informed me it's tradition and not for religious reasons.
[–]Dormwhorf 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Kellogg was just one of many idiots that promoted medicalized child circumcision in the Anglosphere. Muslims and Jews, along with Coptic Christians and some other groups practiced it long before of course.
[–]JcbAzPx -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
???
America isn't an Islamic country. Especially back when circumcision was first popularized. That has nothing to do with how it started here.
[–]jp_mra 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Islam, Judaism, and Christianity all started in the same location, and the three religions are very similar.
The chart at the bottom of this page is interesting, but it doesn't go back far enough to the time of Kellogg: http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/USA/
[–]JcbAzPx -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
While true, that is also irrelevant. America did not start mass circumcision because of the non-religious practices of Islamic nations.
[–]jp_mra 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Not necessarily irrelevant if the culture of circumcision in the US began outside of the US.
[–]AwkwardRock1 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The masturbation taboo and the rise of routine male circumcision
Haven't read the whole thing, but it seems like a pretty substantial overview.
"By means of a review of the historiography of both the masturbation phobia and the rise of routine circumcision I hope to shed light on how significant the aim of preventing masturbation was in this process"
[+]ETNxMARU1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
cut guys need lube
Years of experience beg to differ
[–]inspire-change 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
ok, so i'm curious. are you masturbating using dry hand friction against your glans? or do you have a loose enough cut that you have enough shaft skin left over to act 'like' a foreskin so your hand doesn't have to come into direct contact with your head?
[+]ETNxMARU1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Pretty sure it's more of the second part, but I've never really thought about it.
[–]inspire-change 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
also, i'm talking about slow, sensual masturbation. personally for me using lube makes achieving a slow sensual climax 10 times easier than without lube. i'm not sure if i could climax without it going slow. now if i go into jackhammer mode, i can get off without lube, but it's definitely not slow nor sensual. with lube, slow and sensual is easy. with a real foreskin, slow and sensual is easy. some guys are cut so tight they can't get any skin to roll over their head while hard. i would assume that you are fortunate enough to have a looser cut. imagine this: while hard, pull your shaft skin tight to the base with one hand, now while it remains tight, try masturbating with the other hand with no lube. i'm not sure how common tight circumcisions are, but some guys have to deal with that.
[–]BomberMoran 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Hi guys! I'm from the Philippines and circumcision is a MUST for almost every man here. I agree with the comments that the person should decide if they want to get circumcised or not. Its just that in our country, if you're not circumcised before 11 years old, you will get bullied. An uncircumcised man here is called "Supot" and used like an insult. Man, I really hope that this change in our country but I think it won't. I promise that I will let my future kid decide to be circumcised or not. I really appreciate the comments that I read here.
[–]Lichu12[S] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Im from Brazil, feel you man
[–]Invicturion 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
As the father of a boy we had to have circumsised due to medical reasons, this pains me..
Im due to undergo the exact same procedure in september. It helps him a bit to know this!
[–]Double_A_92 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I don't know what medical conditions you are talking about, but it's normal for young boys to not be able to pull the foreskin back. It's just "glued" there until puberty sometimes.
Also the skin becomes more elastic if you regularly stretch it...
The only thing that doesn't strech as much is the frenulum on the bottom. But you can have just that cut (before it accidentally rips), instead of the whole foreskin.
[–]Invicturion 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Phimosis.
[–]Double_A_92 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
That's what I was thinking. What I wrote above applies to that. Maybe if helps you avoiding some painful surgery.
[–]Invicturion 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Unfortunatly, i waited 37 years, and now its too late. Surgery is the only solution for me.
[–]myprivateaccount12 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Smart move
[–]QuantemCipher 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That sucks
[–]SheldonTime 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Circumcision can decrease your risk of HIV/AIDS, penile cancer and herpes, which is a good thing, but the surgery isn’t necessary or obligatory. It’s up to the child and parents. But if you don’t want to circumcise yourself at all, then wear a condom, they’re the only ones that can help you against STDs.
I also feel extremely offended every time I see an ad that portrays men stupid and women smart. They’re still going, no bans.
[+]RolandMurdoc -46 points-45 points-44 points 7 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link
24 year old who just got circumcised recently here.
My father's family were against circumcision while I was a baby and oh boy, so many problems that could have been avoided (Like painful fimosis and a weird looking unerected penis that made me insecure around my first and potential parters) if I just got a simple surgery back then that i wouldn't even remember at all.
Now my penis looks better and bigger (GF words) due too the extra skin not holding my little boy down. I don't know why is not obligatory, it should be, my sexual life and self esteem had never been better.
[–]DropThatKnife 28 points29 points30 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Great to hear that it did the trick for you, and that you had the choice to get it done! Just be aware that you're in a miniscule minority having faced issues with your foreskin. Prophylactically operating every newborn penis for this miniscule minority doesn't make sense.
[–]ImOnlyChasingSafety 23 points24 points25 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
How does what you said justify it being obligatory?
[–]RolandMurdoc -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Well, that was what my doctor said, I am no professional.
[–][deleted] 29 points30 points31 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't know why is not obligatory, it should be, my sexual life and self esteem had never been better.
It's not obligatory because brainlets such as yourself aren't allowed to be in a position of power that allows them to legislate against people's individual bodily freedoms. And thank fuck for that.
[–]JohnnyCharles 26 points27 points28 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
So it was your decision then?
[+]RolandMurdoc -26 points-25 points-24 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Not at all, it had to be done.
[–]JohnnyCharles 28 points29 points30 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
And you were completely aware of and consented to the procedure?
Dude, you had a medical problem that certainly should have been recognized and fixed on time.
That doesn't mean the same procedure should be forced on kids that don't have the same problems and needs. That's like saying that you should have your balls cut off because other guys have testicle cancer.
[–]ALTSuzzxingcoh 40 points41 points42 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Are you saying girls' breasts should be carved out at birth because they might develop cancer as a woman?
[+]RolandMurdoc -28 points-27 points-26 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Lol, how do you come up with that?
[–]allonsy_badwolf 20 points21 points22 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You basically said all men should be cut because you had a problem that a very small percentage of men would have?
Would the comparison of removing the clitoris of all women because a small percentage of women have overly sensitive clits causing pain or spontaneous orgasm interfering with daily life make more sense?
[–]intactisnormal 16 points17 points18 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
"An estimated 0.8% to 1.6% of boys will require circumcision before puberty, most commonly to treat phimosis. The first-line medical treatment of phimosis involves applying a topical steroid twice a day to the foreskin, accompanied by gentle traction ... allow[ing] the foreskin to become retractable in 80% of treated cases, thus usually avoiding the need for circumcision."
This is not a common issue.
[–]RolandMurdoc 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Ok got it.
[–]tothecatmobile 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Thinking everyone should have a medical procedure carried out on them because you personally needed it is probably one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.
I'm glad you found a solution to your problem, but you are very much in the minority for needing it.
Woah, thank you for caring bro!
[–]carbot117 15 points16 points17 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You had a bad case of phimosis. Likely, this was because your parents forcibly retracted you as a infant and child. That is primary way in which it develops and unfortunately that was what many parents were taught to do by healthcare professionals until recently.
With this being said, a healthy foreskin is a highly stimulating/pleasurable part of the penis. It has a ton of value and is in now way trivial.
Things did not work out for you but that isn’t the case for most men.
Sorry, that is a running problem in my family I thought it was normal.
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[+]ETNxMARU1 points [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
Years of experience beg to differ
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[+]ETNxMARU1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Pretty sure it's more of the second part, but I've never really thought about it.
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