Involuntary Celibate vs Voluntary Celibate difference.

gabriel-kornilov · 2024-06-15T02:45:51+00:00

MGTOW: "We're tired of the plantation and its obnoxious double-standards. Good luck, ladies! We're gone." The answer? "Incels. Misogynists. You hate women! Fuck you!"

Red Pillers: "Go to the gym, bro. Keep your frame, make money and spin plates!" The answer? "Misogynistic POS. You treat women like cattle. Fuck you!"

Incels: "Why can't I get a girlfriend? What am I doing wrong?" The answer? "Incels. Misogynists. Women don't owe you anything. Fuck you!

No matter what you do or say you're wrong, so fuck it. Why giving a shit about what they think? Walk away.

Sea_Treat7982 · 2024-06-14T22:24:11+00:00

The 'Incel' label is an important component of shaming men. It's the same principle as the pay gap. Now that this myth has been debunked, feminists have lost one of their victim cards.

SchwiftedMetal · 2024-06-14T21:33:21+00:00

There’s def a semantic difference, but ppl just lump everyone they hate together as a way to strawman ppl they don’t like.

NAWALT_VADER · 2024-06-15T00:11:52+00:00

I find it funny when feminists try to demonize MGTOW types or anyone who would genuinely choose celibacy voluntarily. They call it "misogyny". They often claim these men must either be incapable of attracting a woman or they must just hate women.

Women have been marching with signs and posting in all media for decades that they don't need men in their lives. Many men are coming to realize that they, too, do not need women in their own lives.

If it is misogyny when men make that choice, then it must be misandry when women make that same choice. Feminists often project. They perhaps know that they make such choices because they hate men, so they assume men making such choices must hate women too.

For this topic, I find it appropriate to paraphrase the famous feminist quote that first became popular back in the 1970s: "A man needs a woman like a fish needs a bicycle."

They have been telling us that for a long time now. It seems that many of us now agree with them on this point.

ABBucsfan · 2024-06-14T20:47:26+00:00

Ive been voluntarily celibacy a good chunk of my life. Ironically the only time I was involuntarily so was during marriage to figure. I waited until marriage, had great sex first couple of years but tapered off for a while after first, then died once she got the second. Now I choose to remain celibate again. Tbh life would have been far simpler if I'd just remained celibate, but I'd miss my kids. Or course it's hard to tell anyone that who's never had it

mrmensplights · 2024-06-15T05:54:13+00:00

Context matters. Incel is rarely if ever used to mean "involuntarily celibrate". 99.9% of it's usage today is just a general slur thrown at men.

People online will throw around 'incel', 'red pill', 'mgtow', 'mensrights' etc all as smears. Very few who use these for their agendas or as smears actually ever knew what these groups are (or were) or what they believed.

Spiritual-Angle-1224 · 2024-06-15T09:17:03+00:00

I believe that the word “incel” is just a buzzword at this point. People still love using it very loosely and not even knowing what it means.

BloodyMartians · 2024-06-15T13:38:49+00:00

Not quite. Voluntary celibates are simply people who are celibate by choice. Involuntary celibates are people who are want sex but are celibate not through choice, but through circumstance. That's all it means, just that and nothing else. Whether or not someone is a virgin or RP doesn't come into it, though someone who identifies as MGTOW is likely to fit one of these criteria, being celibate does not mean that person is MGTOW. You're falling into the feminist/mainstream trap of muddying the waters of these definitions in order to denigrate mens sexuality.

Vaudeville_Clown · 2024-06-15T21:43:26+00:00

The answer to your question is propaganda.

The point of wilfully lumping all together, incel/volcel/MGTOW/redpill/MRA/etc. is to say to the average Washington Post reader that

"Look, these groups may seem different to you, but trust us, they are all the same. You should listen to us and not to any of them. If you're listening to any one of them, people might think you're sympathetic to incels, because like we've already covered, they're essentially all the same. Women might not want to fuck you, and career opportunities in all our lovely boomer ass institutions may be closed to you"

So there you have it. The propaganda isn't for us per se but for the shrinking pool of mainstream folks who's masters are beginning to panic about male flight.

63daddy · 2024-06-14T21:30:17+00:00

I’ve never married and probably never will so many would probably consider me MGTOW. For me this is simply a reaction to biased marriage and divorce laws and has nothing to do with any ill will towards women. I’m certainly not celibate, at least not for extended periods. Let’s just say I know married men who have gone far longer without sex than I ever have.

I do think there is a difference between voluntary vs involuntary celibacy, but I think this can be a simplistic view that misses the most important factors.

Society is gynocentric and an expectation of hypergamy is still the norm. We favor women in education, in business, in job hiring in divorce settlements and more, yet we still have an expectation that women deserve to date up and marry up. This is simply not viable. Whether a man decides he can’t find a woman in this biased environment (incel) or simply concludes the available options aren’t worth the huge sacrifices is a fairly meaningless distinction in my view, both are driven by unrealistic hypergamous and gynocentric norms. Even though I’m not celibate, my decision to not marry is driven by these gynocentric standards.

If we want dating and marriage options to be compatible again, we either need to let go of hypergamy in this day and age or we need to stop advantaging women and disadvantaging men. Advantaging women, disadvantaging men and expecting women to date and marry up has to mean many men either voluntarily or “by choice” won’t fit. Distinguishing between these two is really a moot point, it’s a nuanced difference driven by the same underlying issue.

LevelsOfInsanity · 2024-06-14T20:32:39+00:00

Or we have the third kind like myself. I have a severe mental disorder. I will not ever take the chance of passing it on to any children, so sex is out voluntarily, however I do not eschew women. I have a very pleasant platonic friendship with a woman who works in a nearby place. We go out to eat, enjoy a nice café, or tea in her case, we go for walks, talk politics and hang around. There is nothing expected between the two of us and nothing given or received except decent companionship. So I while I can be classed as voluntarily celibate, I unlike the majority of MGTOW don't forsake women either.

sgt_oddball_17 · 2024-06-14T20:50:32+00:00

I was "voluntary" until I got married.

And wasn't as if Aurora, Hera, or Hestia (names have been changed to protect the innocent) wouldn't have let me. After I married Hestia she would comment that it was amazing we didn't have sex before marriage.

Extreme_Spread9636 · 2024-06-14T23:50:55+00:00

Why does it even matter at this point? Over the course of twenty years, I've seen the term celibate used more than I can count in a hundred different ways. These words are used as labels. They don't mean anything. Along with misogyny, homophobia and all the other words. People are incredibly inconsistent with their language usage.

alebruto · 2024-06-15T14:57:30+00:00

Voluntary celibates are Christians who save themselves for their future partner. Mgtows remain single but not necessarily celibate

eli_ashe · 2024-06-17T00:38:34+00:00

i tend to view MGTOW with the same skepticism i do rad fems. gender segregationists more or less. they oft utilize concepts, language, and express aims that are in gender parody with each other.

i don't view them as incels, nor do i view incels or rpers as on a par with rad fems.

ChromeBadge · 2024-06-15T11:38:41+00:00

Voluntary = I find the thought of sex with someone, anyone, disgusting.

Involuntary = I want sex but no one will have sex with me.

WannabeLeagueBowler · 2024-06-14T20:27:10+00:00

All men are involuntarily celibate. You can't make someone have sex with you on command.

Apreciador_de_xoxota · 2024-06-14T20:47:00+00:00

The big problem is that Incel sees RedPill bubbles and the like and relies on this shit to justify his own failure ...

There's no point in denying the fruit of the tree if u can't even climb the fucking tree, you'll live your life as someone incomplete and frustrated ... The person who learns to climb the tree but decides not to pick the fruit by choice has advanced in intellect and has matured.

That's why I say, yeah ...you must be able to seducing women (without paying) and then decide to abstain from them

And in order to do that, you need to develop (in the case of a Level), put on a shape, grow financially, fix ur posture, speak and act with firmness ...

Here comes skinny/fat dude, a fucked up otaku, who can't even talk to a woman for a minute, let alone fuck her! Then the bastard tells he's a MGTOW.

Nah ...The name incel already exists for a reason

Agile_Potato9088 · 2024-06-14T21:18:49+00:00

It's also a matter of mindset and opinion. While some here may technically be voluntarily celibate, they can still be classed as incel by having a similar or the same mindset. One such comment exists in this thread.

Title	Involuntary Celibate vs Voluntary Celibate difference.
Author	Competitive-Shoe-340
Upvotes	51
Comments	46
Date	June 14, 2024 8:10 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1dg01ss/involuntary_celibate_vs_voluntary_celibate/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/involuntary-celibate-vs-voluntary-celibate.1521575 https://theredarchive.com/post/1521575

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