Thoughts on the draft?

Imissyourgirlfriend2 · 2015-12-06T23:38:40+00:00

I was just 2 years from graduating high school when 9/11 happened. I remember being truly scared of being drafted. Thank God it never came to that but in my book, fair is fair and equal is equal. My motto is "Equal rights, equal responsibilities, equal privileges" Feminism "claims" to fight for equality, so lets make things equal. If I had to fear the draft, everyone should have to fear the draft.

Tmomp · 2015-12-07T01:32:23+00:00

With the current talk about possibly requiring women to register for the draft, I find it ironic that the U.S. military may move us more toward equality than most feminist organizations.

If the military ever involuntarily drafted women, I would expect many would get pregnant.

xynomaster · 2015-12-07T03:40:28+00:00

The draft is the reason I came to this subreddit in the first place. Having to sign up devastated me, not so much because I was scared of actually being drafted, but because it made me feel like my life was worthless. Like, up until that time I'd been technically a child so my life had some value, but registering for the draft is basically a signal that society views you like disposable trash now and no one really cares whether you live or die.

That's why I feel that, if everyone had to register, it might feel more like a shared sacrifice for our country (although I would still oppose it). But with only men registering, it feels like being singled out as disposable.

I'm really happy this is getting some attention. It's what I think is one of the most serious men's rights issues there is.

jtaylor73003 · 2015-12-07T02:01:21+00:00

The draft is being fought. The NCFM has filed appeals to have it removed or to include women, and yes there has been articles on here about it. The problem is most men don't know how the draft does or will impact them. One young men must sign up and maintain an address on file with the Selective Service. Failure to sign can result in unability to renew Drivers Licenses, and impact any government funds typically for college.

If you are young man trying to immrigrant to the U.S. then he has to register, even if he comes here illegally. One those unusual tenets of the law that people overlook.

One myth is that the President has to have Congress approval or that we must be at war before a draft can happen. First the Selective Service Act grants the President to power to draft men into military at any time for purpose of filling the ranks. Second according to the Federal government, we been at war since 1990. So at state of war already exists and Congress has already approved the President to draft men when the President decides.

Most men are automically signed up once they sign up for college or apply for a drivers license. Even if they object to the draft or to war. Finally I will point out those who do object to war can still be drafted into private sector, like ulities, if the President determines that that sector needs people.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2015-12-07T00:09:25+00:00

It's kinda grating signing away your rights like that (no matter how unlikely) and of course it hammers in the notion that men have obligations to go with their rights while women just get rights.

But I didn't lose any sleep over it.

Imagine if instead the government forced women to register their uterus with the state should we ever need to forcibly breed them without their consent should the population crash for some reason. Don't worry, in the last century it was only used four times and probably won't be used again. But just in case you have to register until you turn 25 and if you don't there are various penalties.

I imagine most women wouldn't love that system.

ThePigmanAgain · 2015-12-07T00:40:21+00:00

Draft the scum who start the wars -- the politicians, the media figures, the corporate heads -- and leave everyone else the fuck alone.

ghebert001 · 2015-12-07T01:58:19+00:00

I think it has been discussed here before a few times and to my recollection, the general consensus among us was that the ideal situation was that the draft and selective service to be eliminated altogether but that if there had to be a draft and selective service that it should apply to men and women equally.

TheDude41 · 2015-12-07T02:20:39+00:00

Of course women should have equal obligations to be forced into combat as men.

We've been saying that for years.

Corpsedusk · 2015-12-06T23:13:10+00:00

I think most MRAs (and even some feminists) agree that the draft is unfair, since it only applies to men, but people tend to argue whether it should be extended to women or just ended (I think it should be ended, but that's just me).

The reason it isn't typically brought up in forums like this is probably because the Selective Service System (and therefore the draft) hasn't been activated since the 70's, and nobody in mainstream politics is saying it should be activated anytime soon, so it's just quietly sitting on the backburner.

Which is a shame, I think, because it seems very important to discuss the ethics of forcing someone to fight in a war when they sincerely don't want to fight, as well as the ethics of applying that force only to men.

192873982 · 2015-12-07T00:02:35+00:00

There are different points here.

One is that male only draft is unfair. If we assume that draft may be neccessary at some point in the future, a men and women draft would be the only fair solution.

The other point is that women in the army can be a problem. If you have to fight, a big part of it is that you have to evacuate comrades. A woman can not evacuate a wounded male comrade, or even if she can, she would be too slow. That is of course if the guy is not very lightweight, which people in the infantry usually aren't.

But the second point is not that relevant, since most work in the military is not combat, but instead organization.

I live in a country where men have to actually go to the army, or if they don't they have to pay a percentage of their income for some years. Women don't have to go and also don't have to pay. Obviously that is extremely unfair. Also in wage gap calculations, that is another one of the many things that are ignored.

I might be the only one in this subreddit that was actually in the army without freely deciding do that, so AMA.

LockNuts · 2015-12-06T23:03:54+00:00

It comes up now and again, but in the United States no one is actually being drafted. So it isn't nearly as big of an issue as it would be otherwise.

There is, of course, a subsection of feminists who are against the male only draft from the angle that it is unfair for excluding women.

Herpinator1992 · 2015-12-07T00:20:35+00:00

I signed up for the draft in order to keep the same rights women receive for free. If a war comes along that I consider worthy I will gladly join in the defense of my country. If I am conscripted to fight somewhere I object to (like the middle east) I will be among the first to burn my draft card. But given the shit show that was vietnam i doubt the U.S will ever institute the draft again.

v573v · 2015-12-07T02:27:32+00:00

Pre registering for involuntary military service is mostly an American thing I believe?

The rest of us live with governments who feel that they can find us and determine our elegability to serve in a sufficient amount of time.

Canada has had women open to combat roles since 1989. If Canada needs soldiers for conscription it's serious enough that women will be call up to serve along side men.

paashpointo · 2015-12-07T05:33:50+00:00

If you believe in women in the military then you should be for any draft that does exist to include women, or you dont understand "equality" or "purpose of military" or "basic logic" or perhaps all of those things.

oafsalot · 2015-12-07T18:55:40+00:00

Scrap the draft. It's the more likely outcome once women realize they would have to die for it.

rgeek · 2015-12-07T02:00:32+00:00

Is it something that just doesn't bother men?

It bothers us that we can be drafted and women cant. But nothing can be done legally to abolish it.

If the govt. decided to implement the draft, what can anyone do abt it, legally-speaking? The courts have declared in multiple cases that a draft is completely legal and violators have been punished. Nobody has come up with a working argument against the draft.

You can become a draft-dodger, but your hope of returning to your home and family is dependent upon a presidential pardon (which isn't guaranteed).

So, for now the only thing one can do, is question the necessity of the draft.

I know I am going against popular opinion here, but I think that a draft is necessary and absolutely unavoidable i.e it will be used again.

As for the feminist counter-arguments, dig a little deeper and you will find that a lot of them are based on assumptions that

a big army with a lot of volunteers as replacements
nuclear weapons

will ensure perfect safety and security without needing the draft.

All I can say to that is "its not that simple". Those two options will not meet all contingencies.

Title	Thoughts on the draft?
Author	granolaperks
Upvotes	14
Comments	44
Date	December 6, 2015 10:18 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3vpnue/thoughts_on_the_draft/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/thoughts-on-the-draft.965657 https://theredarchive.com/post/965657

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