why do we keep falling for this shit?

thrway_1000 · 2012-07-30T03:13:00+00:00

People are too obsessed with trolls. Who cares if it's a troll post or not? The answers on our side are honest and it gets discussions going. I see no reason for people to feel bad for honesty and being trusting. I'll quote myself on another post about trolls:

Whether you are a troll or not, I don't care. If you are, then being scum is on you and I could care less if you think it's funny that I would respond seriously. Responding seriously is the only moral course of action; the only fools are the trolls and those who go along with them. Fearing looking silly or even feeling silly for answering a troll post is incomprehensible to me, because any and all honest answers could be helpful to someone and that is serving a greater good in my mind. Trolls create false posts trying to shame people for offering advice but if it actually helps someone else who reads or could help someone later where's the shame? So, I'll answer all posts honestly and keep the moral high-ground, and just smile if a troll tries to make me feel less for it.

MaunaLoona · 2012-07-30T02:58:58+00:00

They always preface their post with "throwaway for obvious reasons", as if we're a terrorist group.

Three common troll themes are:

Rape
"Nobody will take Men's Rights movement seriously unless you stop doing X"
Pretends to be a "newbie" and acts like what you described.

Obviously not all such posts are trolls, but if it's a day old account and fits one of the above patterns I simply ignore their post.

typhonblue · 2012-07-30T03:49:58+00:00

It gives people new to men's rights an opportunity to sharpen their debating skills?

cthulufunk · 2012-07-30T03:09:17+00:00

Rinse wash repeat.

Yes, what's with the throwaway accounts? It seems disingenuous to me.

Weird and unnecessarily paranoid.

LastPriority · 2012-07-30T03:44:20+00:00

The OP called the feminist a pro-pedophile feminist. Why would a user post with a real account when we are so hostile to them?

EvilPundit · 2012-07-30T04:11:45+00:00

Even if it's a troll, engagement and discussion can be useful provided it addresses real issues.

Remember, the important thing with an Internet debate is not to convince your opponent, but to put ideas before the audience. And that post eventually generated quite a large audience.

rightsbot · 2012-07-30T02:52:21+00:00

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TracyMorganFreeman · 2012-07-30T07:28:29+00:00

False flags. False flags everywhere.

Look at it this way: If they actually had a factual or moral leg to stand on they wouldn't have to resort to such tactics.

Solidarity brothers and sisters. Or something.

GammaGrace · 2012-07-30T17:08:02+00:00

Hey, I just want to get my name out there. If you see me posting on anything(I mostly just observe) I'm not a femi-nazi. There may be two sides to every story, but I believe that there is common ground for every one of them. Each "side" has their own abuses, horror stories and their own successes. I support you all. Like a lot of the men on here have said, they don't want this sub to become about women hating. I applaud that! Don't let it become that. I don't even go on r/feminism, but I enjoy coming here. Don't turn fall into the same rut feminists have. You have so much to accomplish.

Hach8 · 2012-07-30T18:54:26+00:00

Considering the initial post was amended with:

EDIT: If I have learned anything from this post today, it's that I feel like shedding my "feminism" label because it carries negative connotations and the movement has brought on negative things for men as a result. I will shed this label in the future and fight for equality for both men AND women. I know there is a lot of work to be done and most of you have very valid concerns. Thank you for the respectful and nice responses.

I don't really see how we "fell for" anything.

Spyder001 · 2012-07-31T00:05:34+00:00

Could we Stop calling people who do just not believe in the same thing we do trolls? I know its daunting but we have to be vigilant and continue to restate our point EVERY TIME they come up. They aren't trolls, they actually do believe the things they are saying otherwise they wouldn't be coming in here saying extremist things to derail the conversation.

FOADSASCUM · 2012-07-30T03:53:48+00:00

We fall for it because many of us with for once any person identifying as a mainstream to radical feminist would take the time to actually hear anything we say out.

99% of the time(maybe not that but damn close) its always "wat about teh menz!!1"

I don't think anyone here is really too naive, but it would be nice for once to speak about mens rights issues candidly among people who don't agree by default, but that may never happen...

MockingDead · 2012-07-30T05:42:29+00:00

When someone demands a Men's Right's 101 answer we should tell them to search the subreddit or read the sidebar.

thrway_1000 · 2012-07-30T07:54:45+00:00

Trolling has slowly become the new normal.

zenmon · 2012-07-30T13:27:41+00:00

What we ought to do is have a modded link that directly addresses feminists who would like to confront and/or discuss. It might be worthwhile to have a r/askMRAs like r/askfeminists.

In a grander sense, we ought to be compiling very direct and pointed answers into a kind of reference guide we can link on the right. Answers to claims/discussions of rape, parental rights waivers, etc.

Part of the issue with the problem with perhaps both the Men's Rights Movement, and its entanglement with ignorant feminists who wish to confront it are that 1. anger and other unproductive emotional responses come to the surface very quicky and 2. there are no "standard" or "canonical" answers with the Men's Rights Movement as there are in traditional liberal feminism; there is no "reference guide" as there is in liberal feminism (please note, what I mean is not a fully published "reference guide" but rather a generally agreed upon and understood background of work that would be generally referenced by the discipline).

A smart idea to get rid of this kind of unproductive discussion would be to start getting these things out of the way immediately, and nip it in the bud before it starts wasting anyone's time (and patience).

CMOS222 · 2012-07-30T05:50:54+00:00

Some of us don't.

IMHO, it's not up to ME to justify MRA to some constipated, ambivalent "radical feminist". They're just looking for attention.

EDIT RESPONSE TO NORTHERNSKEPTIC: there's a difference between preaching to the choir, the genuinely curious and open-minded, and the "self-identified radical feminist". And it's easy to distinguish between the latter two. Usually the SIRF is full of turgid prose and tortured justifications and explanations for posting here, as though the MRA thought police are going to track her down and knock on her door for posting here. They're usually symptomatic of someone experiencing a severe allergic reaction to the idea that some people couldn't care less what feminism tells them they're supposed to do.

They're quite amusing to watch, frankly, if you have the time for it.

cthulufunk · 2012-07-30T07:47:14+00:00

Yeah, I'll be honest with you guys. A lot of these are "Game of Trolls" players. I like to read that subreddit and occasionally I'll play a game. I don't like to "play" on this subreddit, because it's impossible for me not to feel bad for you guys if I do, but you guys are one of the easiest targets because like the OP says you keep falling for that shit.

internethardman · 2012-07-30T15:11:14+00:00

White Knights.

NWOslave · 2012-07-30T19:11:56+00:00

Some of us were fooled some of us weren't. My reply which was donvoted to zero was this.....

"0 points 1 day ago* Propaganda. Gender is inherent, not a construct. Strange how every culture through all history no matter how secluded has had the same, "construct????"

Everyone is in such a rush to offer olive branches. Let me know how the scraps from the feminist table taste. After you've admitted to the legitimacy of any feminist theory you've already lost.

AnnArchist · 2012-07-30T04:29:56+00:00

If its a day old account posting here. . .its most likely going to be banned fairly quickly. The moderation team doesn't need to check with each other to ban those.

Don't be shy about pointing out day-old or week-old accounts to the moderation team.

If the account isn't 6 months old, its most likely not their main account.

FrenchFuck · 2012-07-30T04:27:54+00:00

Another good point to address here. This along with No more will help make this subreddit a more informative and less jaded group.

whybecauseduh · 2012-07-30T06:53:20+00:00

Why? Because the moderators refuse to ban feminist trolls, instead spending all their time banning MRAs who don't agree with their political ideology.

We asked for a note in the sidebar to tell feminists to stop doing the thing you're talking about MONTHS ago. But apparently the mods are too busy banning MRAs to do something useful.

Title	why do we keep falling for this shit?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	58
Comments	41
Date	July 30, 2012 2:50 AM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/xde0k/why_do_we_keep_falling_for_this_shit/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-do-we-keep-falling-for-this-shit.1016893 https://theredarchive.com/post/1016893

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