Challenge My View Nice guy(TM) is a useless label.

exit_sandman · 2016-02-10T09:44:53+00:00

You probably aren't likable in the eyes of other people, simple as that.

And women mistake their personal gut feeling about a person with that person's moral value, i.e. if she likes you, you're good, if she doesn't, you're an asshole.

Feminism just compounds that issue because the "nice guy"-narrative is fundamentally incompatible with their own for a multitude of reasons.

Xemnas81 · 2016-02-10T10:15:21+00:00

It's just a way to make fun of guys with bad social skills, nothing more nothing less. Unfortunately, people with bad social skills have always been subject to bullying of some form, that's just how people are.

pandorarosie · 2016-02-11T06:15:30+00:00

You were bullied in graduate school? Fuck me. This reads like my experiences. I am not bullied in graduate school anymore, but it did take some self-reflection...I had fallen back into my vulnerable grade 10 self. I realized then and there...I will always exude vulnerability if I let myself go. And I swear people who are bullies can just pick up on it...it's like fresh blood to a shark.

PoopInMyBottom · 2016-02-10T12:48:36+00:00

Women have a different conception of nice to you. You think being nice consists of being submissive, deferring your boundaries to her and making grand gestures of material value. They think being nice is not making them feel like shit, not being manipulative and respecting their boundaries.

Here is an example: guy meets girl. Girl is not sure if she wants to go home with Guy. Guy says "that's cool" and talks to her in a friendly way that makes her enjoy herself for an hour. He doesn't try to manipulate her into going home with him against her will, he doesn't try any bizarre shit, he just acts like a friendly and cool guy. Because, well, he is.

You really think she'd prefer a domineering douche?

Yes, when the choice is between a depressed guy who gets bullied and the guy who bullies him, women will go for the bully - especially teenage girls. You really think they would pick your bully over Ryan Gosling? Over Ed Sheeran?

Bear in mind, guys who are on the bottom of the social hierarchy aren't nice to people because they want to be. They are nice because they have to be. That may be niceness but it is not a niceness you can depend on. They tend to have very little integrity. People who are desperate will gravitate towards the nearest source of power. That's why they compromise their own values in the pursuit of avoiding rejection. That means a girl can't trust a guy who is on the bottom of the social hierarchy - and guess what? The ability to trust you is one of the main things that makes a girl think you are nice.

prometheangambit · 2016-02-10T10:10:46+00:00

It's useless for logical debate, but not for playing a more...Machiavellian kind of game...

"I love women, I just hate Women(TM). You know?"

"I accept all the red pill facts, but not the 'Red Pill Facts (TM)."

"I'm friends with a lot of blue pill people, just not with 'Blue Pill People (TM)'."

And in debates I can cleverly conflate the two targets when convenient to test the ideologicals waters, for example: "I hate blue pill adherents. They never want to search for generalities EVER!"

Let's say someone points out that blue pill adherents simply believe the world is a much more complex place than your reductionism allows. I can suddenly agree AND still appear smart and open-minded because, really, I wasn't talking about blue pill adherents, I was talking about Blue Pill Adherents (TM).

It's a rhetorical sleight of hand.

Brilliant actually. If my debater let's me have that claim about blue bill adherents, I get debate points and won't even bother clarifying. If not, I can claim agreement because I wasn't talking about what I clearly was talking about.

It confuses the dialogue and protects those who hate conflict but actually want to change minds. Makes the debator appear as a lover of shared understanding when they're actually out to win. Sounds like something a feminist would do.

Whoa, not feminist. I mean a Feminist (TM). You know what I mean.

cravenravens · 2016-02-10T13:35:04+00:00

You do realize this is not a gender thing? I was bullied (the main bullies were boys, but there were also girls) and boys didn't care at all about how nice those girls were, and being nice myself didn't help me either with romantic/sexual stuff. Did I mention the main bullies were boys? Those bullies were and are now (frustratingly!) successful in their lifes. So much for karma.

I don't think most people (m/f) can sniff out genuinely nice people, and some can, but just don't care...because they're not really nice people either.

drebunny · 2016-02-10T18:01:25+00:00

If all these different people in totally different stages of your life all treat you badly, that's usually a sign that you're actually acting like an ass. In which case it sounds to me you are exhibiting the classic Nice Guy (TM) persona - someone who considers themself a nice person and is always talking about how nice they are, but they're actually just as much, if not more, of an asshole as everyone they're complaining about. And if that's true then the only reason why you're here is to get validation that Nice Guy isn't a real thing and therefore you can't possibly be one.

Now that could not be the case and you could just have incredibly bad luck, but there's not a great likelihood of that. Usually if the same kind of thing keeps happening to you, you need to start taking a realistic look at yourself - and this applies to everyone. It applies to men who are perpetually rejected, women who are always dating people who treat them like shit, guys who complain about how every ex of theirs is a "crazy bitch"...everyone.

Having said that, it's also possible people are overusing the Nice Guy label in situations where it's not appropriate, in which case you would get the impression that it's not real. I definitely think that sometimes that's the case, but that doesn't mean the Nice Guy label serves no purpose at all - when used correctly it is about pointing out unacceptable behavior, just like calling someone an asshole but more specific

BiggerDthanYou · 2016-02-10T13:20:28+00:00

the only purpose the Nice Guy label serves is as a useful shaming technique

Yeah but that's useful for women to stay away from them and to see the warning signs. Many (especially hot ones) had to deal with some long term friend suddenly professing his love out of nowhere and then becoming angry and entitled.

That's not a feeling those women want to feel again and not a feeling they want other women to feel. You feel betrayed, lied to and you start to question if all your male friends are only hanging out with you so they can score sex one lucky day and not because they like you as a person.

The only thing it is good for is to shame unsuccessful men.

It's not used to shame unsuccessful men, it's about guys that pretend to be nice (and make it known over and over how much nicer than her bf he is) and when they notice that it ain't working show their true self.

Nice is always said in a snarky and sarcastic way, because even though he claimed to be so nice and such a gentleman he turned out to actually be the opposite.

And no, I know from first hand experience that women don't care about how nice you are.

Yeah that's why they tell their friends that they wish that the hot guy they are fucking was nicer to them.

So tell me, if women can sniff out who is and who isn't a genuinely nice guy.

Some have had experience with it and learned how to notice the patterns while others are still oblivious about her orbiter secretly being in love with her.

Just like we men don't like Gold Diggers and tell each other how to spot them and what the red flags are women tell each other how that nice friend of hers was actually a manipulative asshole.

Some guys know exactly when a girl is trying to golddigg them, but others fall for it. Same thing with women. They are individual persons with their own unique experiences.

What crimes have I committed that are worse than what these men did?

You said yourself that those guys tried their best to ruin your life. How do you know if the girls had any idea that those guys are assholes? Maybe they told shitty stories about you to make it seem as if they were the heroes when they beat you up.

duckyhunter · 2016-02-10T11:11:01+00:00

Nice Guys^TM doesn't shame unsuccessful men. It shames men that allow their approach anxiety to prevent them from asking out friends that they find attractive.

It's the behavior of a woman, not a man.

WonderWheeler · 2016-02-10T09:29:41+00:00

Interesting point of view, clearly stated, but ... you don't mention whether you are male or female. Just say'n.

dragoness_leclerq · 2016-02-10T09:32:34+00:00

How the guy(s) treated you is of little consequence. The question is, how were the "swooning" women treated?

energyvolley · 2016-02-10T11:44:24+00:00

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midnightvulpine · 2016-02-10T11:36:39+00:00

It's useful to me because I use it precisely. Given your story, at face value I wouldn't call you a NiceGuy. People who get that 'title' from me are people of poor character who show it under stress. It's used for nothing more, nothing less.

The problem is a term has no strict rules in usage. So a lot of people will misuse and toss it around casually. Anyone who uses any similar descriptive term will know that casual use is always troublesome.

Title	Challenge My View Nice guy(TM) is a useless label.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	11
Comments	79
Date	February 10, 2016 8:30 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/451rij/challenge_my_view_nice_guytm_is_a_useless_label/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/challenge-my-view-nice-guytm-is-a-useless-label.276335 https://theredarchive.com/post/276335

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