~ archived since 2018 ~

Question about terms (because debate needs agreed terms): what do you mean when you say 'sexualize'?

czerdec

January 21, 2018

5 upvotes

I hope the point that we need to have an agreed understanding of terms is not going to be disputed by anyone, because that would be insane.

As far as I can tell, it's a word that was invented by the Theologians of Gender Studies, which strongly suggests that, like a great many other neologisms coming from that quarter, it has no meaning at all.

To have a meaning, "sexualize/sexualized/sexualizing/sexualizifcation/sexualizetastic/etc ad nauseam" should have a meaning that is different and distincts from the already-existing "sexual".

Meaning: Sexual means 'X'. Sexualize etc means 'something different than X'.

Here's three PPD threads with the word in the title. In none of these threads is a definition offered, or even hinted at:

https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/6u46ef/heightened_male_aggression_toward_sexualized/

https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/7pqduy/sexualizing_women/

https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3rsjo1/q_for_both_pills_what_obligation_to_women_have_to/

Can we clarify this? Can we nail down whether sexualize means anything? If you claim the word has a special meaning, can you at least refer us to a dictionary where the difference is made explicit? Does the dictionary offer a usable definition or is it just word salad which fails to clarify how the word conveys distinct information not contained within "sexual".

How, in short, do you understand "a sexual woman" to be a different entity than "a sexualized woman"?

Different dictionaries will vary, so can we agree on one definition?

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Post Information

Title	Question about terms (because debate needs agreed terms): what do you mean when you say 'sexualize'?
Author	czerdec
Upvotes	5
Comments	177
Date	January 21, 2018 11:49 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/7rxanp/question_about_terms_because_debate_needs_agreed/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/question-about-terms-because-debate-needs-agreed.263916 https://theredarchive.com/post/263916

Comments

[–]damaskrose 1 points1 points1 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]czerdec[S,🍰] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (53 children) | Copy Link

[–]damaskroseBlue Pill Woman5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago* (52 children) | Copy Link

[–]czerdec[S,🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (51 children) | Copy Link

[–]damaskroseBlue Pill Woman3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (50 children) | Copy Link

[–]czerdec[S,🍰] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (49 children) | Copy Link

[–]damaskroseBlue Pill Woman2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago* (48 children) | Copy Link

[–]czerdec[S,🍰] 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (47 children) | Copy Link

[–]damaskroseBlue Pill Woman2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago* (38 children) | Copy Link

[–]WhisperSecretly a Talking Dog2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]czerdec1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]damaskrose1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Whisper4 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]damaskrose1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Whisper4 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm actually impressed.

Your ability to subtly get from "this makes me uncomfortable" to "this, that, and the other thing are violations of universal law" is actually pretty accomplished.

You've clearly spent some serious time honing your skill at whining to Daddy that it's not faaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiir.

But what you don't seem to have noticed here is that the Daddy whom you are attempting to appeal to, and the men you are characterizing as miscreants are one and the same.

So your argument boils down to "stop doing/saying/thinking this, or I will call you a big meanie".

To which the only sane response is, go ahead, knock yourself out.

All this shit only works on men who give a crap what you think. And because of all this shit, men increasingly don't.

So tell me something... you want me to stop sexualizing women. What's in it for me?

[–]damaskrose1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Whisper4 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Sorry, not buying it.

The fundamental weakness in your argument has been revealed, and suddenly you don't care about all the stuff you were just telling us you cared about.

In the race to give less fucks, you will always lose, because you are the one complaining about fairness to Daddy.

So now it's made clear that not objectifying women has absolutely no benefits for me whatsoever. Which means, in turn, that there must be some benefit to objectifying them.

This, of course, men have known all along, which is why we objectify women in the first place.

A girl might hate this or that particular man objectifying her, but she will never lie down with a man who doesn't objectify her.

Women don't hate pictures being taken of their butts. They love that. They post pictures of their butts on instagram for men to look at. What they hate is to have low-value, loser men looking at pictures of their butts. (Such as the sort of man who photographs women rather than going up and hitting on them.)

See, what you are calling a principled objection to an immoral activity, is really just a visceral revulsion to an unattractive man.

This makes you endorse the wrong fix.

The fix isn't:

Don't do that.
Treat women with respect.

... because women love that, and hate being treated with respect.

The fix is:

Be attractive.
Don't be unattractive.

Fortunately for both men and women, this last bit is real advice, because men can change their level of attractiveness with the right discipline and knowledge.

[–]damaskrose1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Whisper3 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]rreliable1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]AdminEchoNullVoid2 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

So it's a contract, but it's never written down anywhere, so I can't read it, I can't sign it, I can't agree to it, I can't know the terms, I wasn't a part of making it, the terms are always changing, and I don't know who else is party to it.

If I show you a baby, you can agree it's a baby. If I show you a blue baby, you'd say 'it's a blue baby!'. If I show you a blue baby with tentacles coming out of its stomach, you'd say 'omg it's a blue baby with tentacles coming out of it's stomach!'.

But at some point, I could make enough changes to it that you'd say 'what the hell is that?'

What you are describing is not a contract at all.

What you are describing, functionally, is a desire. In particular, a desire that someone else has, perhaps you in this case.

So really, when you say that the reason the character should be shamed is

For making other people uncomfortable, for breaking the social contract.

We can through our conversation here understand that you are not talking about any contract, but your desire.

So we have

For making other people uncomfortable, for breaking my desires.

But grammatically one doesn't break desires, exactly, a better word is 'violating' or 'not granting'. So we have

For making other people uncomfortable, for violating my desires.

And you have listed 'making people uncomfortable' as essentially synonymous with violating your desires, so we can make a good guess that the desire in question is a desire to not feel discomfort.

So in essence, you think he should be shamed because he made you uncomfortable. You think he should be hurt/punished socially because he made you uncomfortable.

Perhaps this will help you understand yourself better; this is a behavioral pattern which is already well understood by TRP.

[–]damaskrose1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I wasn't a part of making it

You are a part of making it, since you're a part of society. Everyone is.

So in essence, you think he should be shamed because he made you uncomfortable. You think he should be hurt/punished socially because he made you uncomfortable.

If someone violates my personal boundaries or makes me uncomfortable, I can personally shame them. But I'm only 1 person, I only have so much power, he can ignore me if he wants. I could tell other people, but no one would necessarily care. If he only made me uncomfortable but didn't break any of society's rules, then no one would care. They'd probably tell me to get over it, like they do when my MIL posts pictures of me on facebook without my permission. -.-

But if someone violates society's unwritten rules, then all society can shame or ostracize him, there could even be professional repercussions. That's what it means to break the social contract.

The question is "are most people in society OK with random strangers taking pictures of their asses while out in public?" I'd say probably not.

[–]AdminEchoNullVoid2 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]damaskrose1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]AdminEchoNullVoid2 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]damaskrose2 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]AdminEchoNullVoid2 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I already explained how what you were originally describing as a 'social contract' is not a contract at all. What you were describing was something else altogether.

You described something that:

Is never written down
Is always changing
When abrogated, you want punishment through social means.

I then ascertained that what you were really talking about, based on this description, was your desires.

Now you'd like to describe a social contract as 'rules generally agreed upon by society'.

Well, I agree that's not your desires, but that's also not a contract, so we must now be talking about something else.

"Rules generally agreed upon by society" I can best attach either of two labels to. Either you mean

The law.
Social convention.

Which of these did you mean? Or did you mean something else?

[–]rreliable2 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]damaskrose1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

'Social contract' is the philosophical basis for law and government. The 'contract' is basically, if an individual wants to enjoy the protections and benefits of being part of a group, they have to follow the rules of that group. That includes official laws and social conventions. There can also be different rules within different segments of society - so for example, you can be ostracized from the Mormon Church, but not from society at large.

There's no such thing as a true anarchy. Every group has rules even if they aren't written down, and punishments for those who break the rules. One of the earliest and most widely practiced punishments was ostracism, which can be temporary or permanent.

I'll give you an example of someone I know who broke the social contract, and was punished for it. Cheating on your spouse isn't illegal, but it's definitely against the social contract in most groups. When my cousin cheated on her husband, her own family dis-invited her from Christmas, and ostracized her for a while after that.

Year's later, they've accepted her back into the fold, but they never fail to take digs at her for being a cheating whore and ruining her marriage. She's invited to Christmas - but so is her ex, and he shows up every damn time. So she spends every holiday sitting in the corner, drinking alone and watching her family schmooze with her ex-husband and his new girlfriend.

So she broke the social contract, was temporarily ostracized and is now being permanently shamed. And that's just from within her own family, her outside social life took a huge hit as well.

[–]MickDash2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]damaskrose1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]czerdec1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You're calling them creepshots and you are so uneducated, you don't even understand that you're engaging in magical thinking.

Like Hindus and Buddhists, you have an active sense of the divine and the profane. All cultures have these irrational beliefs, especially ones that haven't been told about science and logic.

Your core, non-logical brain tells you that a man taking a photograph of a woman's ass is stealing her soul, or making her spirit animal sick, or some other such nonsense.

The part of your brain that can do logic knows that is ridiculous, but you don't have enough training to do logic, so you override your rational mind and impose this stupid "by photographing her ass, the bad spirits will infect the ass and curdle her milk and make it so the crop yields will be bad this harvest moon."

[–]damaskrose1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MickDash1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]czerdec1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]damaskrose1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]czerdec1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]damaskrose1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]czerdec1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

So a group gets to decide "let's make black people be like animals and belong to us like our shoes."

Or have you suddenly remembered that rights must prevail even when the infringed upon is a despised individual. Especially when it's a despised individual. When a black rapist was lynched, the mob would then kill innocent men at random. Consequently the rights of the most unpopular minority must be protected zealously, because they are the points our opponents will most desire to attack.

What we call sleazy, is just a minority who are good people in the eyes of their social group. That's a monumentally strong, intuitively understood benefit from retreating away from normal society. So you do bad stuff, sell meth, sell sex without a condom, whatever, but maybe you're in a strong social bond with your work peers and you're happy to feel you belong somewhere.

[–]damaskrose1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]czerdec1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MickDash1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]czerdec[S,🍰] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]MyronBlayze0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]WhisperSecretly a Talking Dog2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]czerdec1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]whitebunny871 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MyronBlayze1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]AdminEchoNullVoid0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MickDash0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]rreliable0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]GermanEgo 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I think wearing yoga pants is pretty sexual, also certain posing is sexual, showing cleavage is sexual

Its not as simple as you make it out to be. Im not saying that those things give a man a right to do anything he wants, but lets not pretend that there isnt sexuality and competition involved in day to day shit. If you aim for attention than attention you shall receive

I understand that as a woman you compete for attention that you may not actually want just to get the opportunity to succeed in situations that involve attention that you did want. But you cant hold that against men, its just part of the female game. If you want to change that than you need to change the design of the game, the part that involves men doing most of the legwork when it comes to initiating and leading interactions

[–]SmurfESmurferson5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]czerdec[S,🍰] -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurferson3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]czerdec[S,🍰] -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

verb is "projecting" the properties of the root word onto another person or object.

So, in order to verify this, I have to read minds.

I can see the MLP as a fair example, but that's because the original iteration of MLP are plastic toys for girls.

Literally years passed before the first people began depicting MLP in a sexual fashion. When they first came out, very few men, if any, saw a MLP and got an erection, because almost no man gets an erection from a child's toy.

So, for a situation like that, I endorse the use of sexualize.

But for the other situation: the bodies of fit, healthy, young women are never asexual in an absolute sense. From the limited perspective of the subjective experience of the women themselves, sure they may be asexual.

But from the perspective of other members of the species? Sexy as hell, and that's perfectly moral and good.

If a sexy woman is sitting down reading a book, feeling 100% unsexy, she's still sexy regardless of her mental state. Sexiness exists in the eye of the beholder and is not at the beck and call of the person who happens to be (or not be) sexy.

[–]BiggerDthanYouBluetopia6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago* (88 children) | Copy Link

How, in short, do you understand "a sexual woman" to be a different entity than "a sexualized woman"?

You might not have noticed this so far, but in the English language there are lots of words that get a slightly different meaning if you end them in "ize".

Another example would be "an ideal man" vs "an idealized man". The ideal man is perfect while the idealized man is portrayed or imagined as being perfect.

Similarly we can also know what someone means when they use sexual or sexualized.

A woman who flaunts her sexuality, watches porn regularly, orders a sex toy, participates in orgies, etc is a sexual woman. She herself is being a sexual person. It's her individual nature to be like that or she herself is intentionally sexualizing herself.

On the other hand a sexualized woman is usually one who is getting portrayed as being sexual(ly attractive). For example if you take/share pictures of women's volleyball butts you are sexualizing them.

Different dictionaries will vary, so can we agree on one definition?

Do they?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sexualize

to make sexual : endow with a sexual character or cast

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/sexualize

to render sexual; endow with sexual characteristics

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/sexualize

Make sexual; attribute sex or a sex role to.

‘multiple studies found that the media sexualizes athletes’

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/sexualize

to see someone or something in sexual terms, or to make someone or something sexually exciting

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/sexualize

To make sexual in character or quality

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/sexualize#English

To make sexual.

They all follow the exact same pattern.

[–]czerdec[S,🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (86 children) | Copy Link

TL:DR: "Sexualize" refers to an insane feminist belief that if you find someone or something sexy, that is a kind of action which affects the sexy person.

For example if you take/share pictures of women's volleyball butts you are sexualizing them.

What does it mean to say that the act of taking a photograph of a volleyball player is "sexualizing" them?

A guy photographing a butt is a guy who wants a durable image of a butt. Probably to masturbate to later.

But there's no verb appropriate here. The guy taking photographs always finds butts sexy. No change has occurred. Before he saw the girl, he still was attracted to sexy butts. A week later, sexy butts will provoke much the same reaction in him. Him seeing the butt and thinking "boy, that sure provokes an erotic response in my brain" does nothing at all to the owner of the butt.

The butt is entirely unaffected by the man looking at it or photographing it. It's literally in the verb: photons are massless particles which harmlessly bounce off the butt and into the lens, allowing the device to record a permanent image.

It's a stupid, invented pseudo-verb. The "ize" is simply not warranted in what passes for the phenomenon it purports to describe. In reality, it mis-describes the phenomenon.

Example: It's like if I invent the verb "spongificate".

"I spongificated BiggerDthanYou" means "I imagined BiggerDthanYou to be a creature from the Spongebob Squarepants village".

Syntactically, it's a transitive verb, but it's also a stupid, imaginary concept, devoid of meaning, which is invalid and specious on every possible level but the bare skeleton of grammar. Like "sexualize".

[–]SmurfESmurferson5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (65 children) | Copy Link

What does it mean to say that the act of taking a photograph of a volleyball player is "sexualizing" them?

A guy photographing a butt is a guy who wants a durable image of a butt. Probably to masturbate to later.

But there's no verb appropriate here. The guy taking photographs always finds butts sexy. No change has occurred. Before he saw the girl, he still was attracted to sexy butts. A week later, sexy butts will provoke much the same reaction in him. Him seeing the butt and thinking "boy, that sure provokes an erotic response in my brain" does nothing at all to the owner of the butt.

The butt is entirely unaffected by the man looking at it or photographing it. It's literally in the verb: photons are massless particles which harmlessly bounce off the butt and into the lens, allowing the device to record a permanent image.

In this case, the man taking the photograph is not the object being transformed, which is why he is not being sexualized. He is doing the sexualizing.

The women playing volleyball are not engaging in an inherently sexual activity. Hell, they're likely not even thinking sexual thoughts. There is nothing sexual about the situation that they are in, at all whatsoever.

But the man turns the asexual volleyball game into a sexual situation. That process is called "sexualization."

Now, here's the thing - his thoughts didn't magically turn the game sexual for everyone else in attendance. I'm willing to bet those girls' mothers and fathers watching are not having sexual thoughts at all.

And he's not even a bad person for sexualizing the game. He's human, he's aroused, it happens.

He crossed a line and became a creep when he took a sexual action (in this case, taking photos of women who may or may not ever want to be spanked to) in the midst of an asexual situation.

[–]czerdec[S,🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

The women playing volleyball are not engaging in an inherently sexual activity. Hell, they're likely not even thinking sexual thoughts. There is nothing sexual about the situation that they are in, at all whatsoever.

None of that is in any way relevant.

A woman's butt is sexy or unsexy regardless of what it is happening in the brain of its owner.

But the man turns the asexual volleyball game into a sexual situation.

No he doesn't.

The volleyball game is happening, and that is a sexual thing in the perception of the male's brain. It's automatically sexual, within the confines of the man's brain.

He hasn't done anything to the game. The game continues as before.

His only connection to the game is an entirely tenuous, removed one. He does not interact with it.

Photons are emitted from the sun, they bounce off the butt of the volleyball player and into his eyes. He raises his phone so that the photons will bounce into the lens.

It is dishonest to contrue the male as doing anything to the volleyball player.

He is capturing a particular pattern of light through lenses: the ones in his eyes and the one on his phone. None of that is relevant to the players.

"Sexualize", therefore, is a verb to be used primarily by liars and promoters of magical thinking.

[–]SmurfESmurferson4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]czerdec[S,🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I say no. A man's got a right to swing his fist as long as he never reaches you.

Equally, a person can feel attracted to anything and it is nobody's beeswax but his, until he starts interfering with the other's ability to enjoy her life freely.

He's forever free to find the woman sexy, he's not free to grind on her in public with his hard-on. Only when that happens can we unambiguously declare that she is entitled to a say.

There's a school of thought that a woman should feel no particular discomfort at the sight of a tumescent penis. It's a very sensitive organ, and never truly as hard as bone. As an offensive weapon, it is the least dangerous of six. It's tremendously vulnerable.

There's a school of thought that seeing a man's dick swell a little as a well-dressed 21-year-old walks by could actually be something that would be normal and not necessarily unhealthy. They think that there should be well-patrolled areas for people over 18 where it's clothing optional.

[–]czerdec[S,🍰] -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

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[–]czerdec[S,🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (46 children) | Copy Link

How is it an "asexual situation"? He sees the butt and he finds it sexy. The situation, from his frame of reference, is sexual. You are privileging the subjective experience of the monkey-brain sitting at the top of the spinal column to which the butt is attached.

If that single monkey-brain is the only point of view that matters, we still can't say it's fully asexual, as baggy shorts are available and women who take volleyball seriously as a sport are much less likely to show ass. The women who show a lot of ass want to be seen, and want to be lusted after, in a very high proportion of cases.

Nevertheless, it's only one of at least two monkey-brains involved in the situation. The man's monkey-brain is there, absorbing the light patterns and automatically connecting them along pre-existing neural networks to the sex drive.

His monkey-brain is experiencing a distinctly sexual experience.

Give a cogent reason for censoring his lived experience while dictating that hers is the only perspective to deserve expression.

[–]SmurfESmurferson3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (45 children) | Copy Link

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[–]BiggerDthanYouBluetopia1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

TL:DR: "Sexualize" refers to an insane feminist belief that if you find someone or something sexy, that is a kind of action which affects the sexy person.

It's not insane if you consider that this was not what I said. I never said that sexualizing someone necessarily affects the sexualized person.

It can affect them. Like if they find out that someone took pictures of them and put them on a porn site they might get creeped out, but of course she won't know about it if she never found out about it.

What does it mean to say that the act of taking a photograph of a volleyball player is "sexualizing" them?

It merely tells us that he took something innocent and put it in a sexual context.

Just like if someone takes My Little Pony ponies and sexualizes them by drawing rule 34 porn, "sexualizing" doesn't tell us much except that they took something innocent and made it sexual.

A guy photographing a butt is a guy who wants a durable image of a butt. Probably to masturbate to later.

I don't know why you are telling me this.

But there's no verb appropriate here. The guy taking photographs always finds butts sexy. No change has occurred. Before he saw the girl, he still was attracted to sexy butts. A week later, sexy butts will provoke much the same reaction in him.

I don't know why you told me this either.

Him seeing the butt and thinking "boy, that sure provokes an erotic response in my brain" does nothing at all to the owner of the butt.

Sure, but that's not the point.

The butt is entirely unaffected by the man looking at it or photographing it. It's literally in the verb: photons are massless particles which harmlessly bounce off the butt and into the lens, allowing the device to record a permanent image.

Lol sure. Just because you have a basic understanding of physics this means that she can never notice that someone took a picture of her. Cameras don't make shutter noises, pictures can't be uploaded online and no one will ever mention anything.

It's a stupid, invented pseudo-verb. The "ize" is simply not warranted in what passes for the phenomenon it purports to describe. In reality, it mis-describes the phenomenon.

Well there are several people in this thread who knew what this word means and who don't feel that way. Are you sure that you are just not misunderstanding the contexts in which it is used?

[–]czerdec[S,🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]BiggerDthanYouBluetopia0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

You've already accepted the fact that a woman can be, in principle, utterly unaffected by the act of a person enjoying the sight of her ass.

Just like you can be completely unaffected if someone idolizes you. Yet I don't see how that would make it any less useful as a word.

You're uneducated enough not to realize that by admitting that, your whole argument about sexualization being a meaningful concept is in shards all over the floor.

I just don't understand your logic.

Okay let's say I idolize some random athlete that doesn't know about me.

That's a perfectly legitimate way to use this verb.

So why should it be different for sexualization? And if not, which other verb would you use to say "idolize, but without the other person knowing about it"?

You can't rescue the concept once you make the concession.

Why not though?

[–]czerdec[S,🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

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Early, but this is a prominent feminist propaganda outlet which alleges that sexualized images literally cause suffering to all women.

The only way such images should ever hurt an intelligent human being is if a bushel of them fall on her.

Another

We can show a correlation between violence and sexualization in media and its effect on women, but we “can’t show a causation.”

Notice the quotes surrounding "can’t show a causation".

That implies that the writer would have the reader believe that sexualization leads directly to violence, and that those who question the causal relationship are not to be accepted at face value.

And of course, "If You Are Sexualizing Women, YOU Are The Problem"

Because if a woman is being thought of sexually, that is a problem in itself!

Check out the horrendous and definitely-not-bugfuck insane consequences that this lunatic sees as coming from sexualization:

So once again, society has failed to advocate young ladies, by confining them in a box, where they are stripped of their sense of self-respect and self-expression

Because a teacher asked them to cover an extra inch of flesh.

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"I did something completely normal and some creep sexualized it"

That's a perfect example of the statement being meaningless, or more precisely, false in regards to facts.

Why is it meaningless or false? Let's say she is eating a banana.

She could do it in a sensual and sexual way or she could just eat a banana in the normal way. If she eats a banana in a normal way and someone accuses her of being a slut for eating a banana in such a sexual way then it's this person that sexualized this situation, not her.

The truth: a man saw her, and was sexually aroused by the sight.

In an oversimplified manner that's true, but there's always more context. If most others don't see it as something sexual yet he accuses her of being a tease then it's completely fair to say that she wasn't being sexual, but that he sexualized her.

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