When do you stop being a bitch?

MissOrion24 · 2020-10-01T20:20:18+00:00

This is something I have a constant internal struggle with myself, so I would also be very curious to hear more experienced women’s opinions.

I don’t think it’s a struggle you can entirely avoid if you are more submissive in relationships but still have high self worth and want to stand up for what you deserve and how you want to be treated. I often find my thoughts oscillating between “just calm down, you’re being needy and high maintenance” and “no that is a totally reasonable thing, you deserve that”.

I definitely think it’s important to get pretty far into the vetting process with someone before you let yourself be close to the amount of submissive and accommodating that you would want to be in a marriage. If you open yourself up in that vulnerable way too early, you leave yourself open to getting walked over—maybe because the guy is looking to take advantage, but I also think sometimes it’s just that having that much power/responsibility over someone is too much to handle and many guys just aren’t up to it.

In my current relationship, I didn’t start letting my guard down in that way until we had been dating 6-7 months, and then after that I lowered it slowly. We’ve been dating a bit more than 2.5 years now, living together for almost 2, and will probably get engaged in the next year. I’m currently giving him ~80% of the submissiveness that I would if we were married, which seems to be a good pace so far. I trust that he could handle the responsibility of being a captain but it seems better to ease him into it than go right from “not married and wall up” to “married and walls down”.

As far as the constant pull in my brain between “be accommodating” and “look out for #1”, it helps me to write down my priorities, what I want out of life, how I want to be treated in a relationship, etc once or twice a year (and definitely before starting a new relationship). Then I can look back on what I wrote and look at my life and try to objectively determine if I’m being too accommodating. When I’m frustrated about something it’s easy to think “this has been such an ongoing issue, you deserve better! Stand up for yourself!” or “eh it’s just a one time thing, calm down”. If I can look back on my periodic check-ins and see for sure, that settles my worries a lot better than relying on memory (because memory is generally unreliable). It helps to see things in aggregate.

Finally, I think it’s a balance and an integration more than an either/or. You can stand up for your needs in a calm and feminine way, rather than a bitchy way—something I would definitely be open to hearing some wisdom on.

sammy_neutron · 2020-10-01T22:15:23+00:00

I am currently reading the book and I don't think you ever stop being a "bitch". By bitch I mean you aren't a doormat. I don't take everything said in the book seriously since it wouldn't work in certain communities but some of things mentioned work great . I have a tendency to be a people pleaser and there's a lot of charm in standing your ground . Odviously not in an unpleasant way where you are rude but in a way that you respect yourself and expect others to. You will notice this in older films while the women were kind and feminine, they still stood their ground. Odviously things change after you are in a relationship. You wouldn't object your husband sexual advances the same way you would to a man you are in a first date in. A month into the relationship is not enough to go into wife mood and give him a lot of the wife submissive and nurturing benefited. People value things that came with work , thats all.

rft24 · 2020-10-02T19:56:54+00:00

never sis. you never stop being “a bitch,” although i’d rather call it being assertive. you just become a hybrid, this model seems to be working for me. the first go at my relationship was miserable because i was that submissive doormat; but the second time around is sooooooo much better because of the hybrid model i’ve been using.

when my man is well behaved & is meeting my needs, i am the feminine & submissive woman he loves (of course, to a degree cuz we’re not married). when my man is not meeting my needs & is doing/saying dumb or rude shit that turns me off, i’m “a bitch.”

anything i don’t like him doing, i address it right then & there. i don’t get angry or disrespectful, i just confront it from a feminine energy space (if we’re in public, i wait until we’re alone or pull him aside). if it’s something stupid that’s just annoying me, i literally just ignore it lmao. it might sound bad, but i’m not stonewalling him or doing anything emotionally abusive; i just find a way to end the disagreement & then leave him alone in order to focus on making myself feel better (i’m an introvert so sometimes i need a full day or 2 for space). eventually he comes to his senses & apologizes (if not right away) or makes plans to see me to make up for it.

the whole being willing to walk away thing really helps. i honestly don’t think my man would’ve ever changed if i hadn’t genuinely left him like i did. now he knows for a fact that if he fucks up, i’ll leave him. a man will treat you however he wants if he thinks you’ll never leave, you have to leave him fr. give him the space miss you & to examine where he went wrong. in almost every successful ltr i’ve seen, there was a point in time where the couple took time apart & that time helped them realize that they truly wanted each other.

op, if you find yourself in a similar situation again, i think it’s best to go back to the man only after he’s had some time to get himself together, if whatever he’s done was forgivable, if you feel he’s husband material, and (most importantly) if you truly love him.

Hammocknapping · 2020-10-01T21:24:04+00:00

Why are you letting your guard down after one measly month? The first month my husband and I were dating, we probably hung out less than a dozen times. That’s not enough time to know someone and start playing the submissive wife!

I can count on one hand the number of times I texted my husband first before we started living together and got engaged. And, out of those times 1 or 2 were pre-arranged. Heck, I didn’t even save my husband’s number in my phone, so I wouldn’t be tempted to text first.

I know we hear “women are the gatekeepers of sex and men are the gatekeepers of commitment” over and over again, but that’s not always the case. My husband said I love you first. He gave his commitment before I gave mine.

Do not invest in a man until it becomes clear he has invested in you. Have boundaries and enforce them.

the_spiraline · 2020-10-01T23:22:19+00:00

You didn't do something wrong to make those men cheat. They cheated because they're cheaters. I'm sure you're not the first woman they cheated on, or the last. No relationship is perfect, and if there are problems, it's on both parties to work through them like adults or end things honorably. Cheating is a choice. Don't feel bad, feel like you dodged a bullet by learning about their low character now. Lots of women don't find out their man is a cheater until they're married with kids and a joint mortgage!
"Why Men Love Bitches" had an edgy title to catch buyers' attention on crowded bookshelves and sell copies. And it worked! But if I remember correctly from reading it long ago, it wasn't really about being a "bitch" as much as setting clear boundaries and having standards for yourself in relationships so you don't get treated like a doormat. Once you start doing that, it will naturally filter out men who don't respect boundaries or standards. That doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong - quite the opposite!
"And I don’t know how to present myself that makes it extremely clear I’ll really walk away if treated badly, while at the same time being able to do nice, thoughtful, accommodating, cuddly gestures." Just MAKE it clear! Communicate your boundaries with men you're dating. If you don't tolerate cheating, make it clear early on that it's a dealbreaker and you'll walk away and never look back. You don't even need to frame it in an accusatory way. Maybe you're watching a movie together with some adultery and you say "ugh, I can't stand cheaters! I'd never put up with infidelity, it's so disrespectful." That's not bitchy, right? It just tells him what you expect from a relationship. Then you can be as thoughtful and accommodating as you want to be, while letting him know it will all go away if he disrespects you or takes you for granted.
Timing is also a big part of this. Early on in the relationship, don't make yourself too available and don't bend over backwards for him. It's fine to do nice little gestures here and there, but doing too much for a man you don't know that well reads as thirsty. All of your love, affection, care, submission etc. is something he should EARN over time, as he demonstrates himself to be a faithful man of character who can offer you protection, honesty and respect. If you do all that for a "guy you're interested in" who's proven nothing to you so far, he'll (perhaps rightfully, perhaps not) surmise he hasn't earned that kind of behavior, that you'll do it for any man you're interested in, and that you're doing it out of desperation to impress him rather than genuine love. And none of that earns a man's respect. Nursing him back to health when he's sick is something a wife, girlfriend or mother does, not a random girl he's seeing while he sees other girls on the side. Why would he bother committing to you if he's already getting all the perks of commitment with none of the responsibilities? Make sure you're the "wife/girlfriend" and not the "random girl" before you give him that much time and energy, or you may end up kicking yourself for wasting it later.
And for goodness sake, please ignore/block DMs from thirsty exes. This isn't something you attract in particular with your behavior; every woman deals with this annoyance. I've been married for over a decade and my old college boyfriend (who also cheated) still pops up in my DMs sometimes yapping about nothing. Ignore. Block. Repeat. And then re-focus your attention on finding a man worthy of your attention. #BitchLessons

2020-10-02T05:01:41+00:00

[removed]

Ralphunkadelic · 2020-10-18T04:57:02+00:00

Establishing boundaries and following through is not “being bitchy” it’s being a healthy adult woman.

Being a bitch is just being rude for no reason.

Being a “nice girl” is being a doormat. Which is not the same as falling into a feminine role. Feminine women can still have power and be assertive. This is where I think the idea of submission can actually be unhealthy for women. We’re told to obey and submit, but you cannot do that if you’re being mistreated.

It’s okay to walk away from abuse.

DoctorNini · 2020-10-01T22:39:47+00:00

I've not read the book, but unless the title is clickbait I'm surprised to hear it recommended in RP spaces.

There's a big difference between having your own life with healthy boundaries and being a "bitch".

Men don't want a challenge, I can't see you wooing any men that way and wouldn't use it as a "strategy". You don't need to go out of your way to show a man how ready you are to leave. Just let him know your boundaries, and if he chooses to breach them, there's your answer.

Rock_Granite · 2020-10-02T04:05:39+00:00

[removed]

ThorsdaySaturnday · 2020-10-02T18:36:22+00:00

If your past issue is cheating, then make it clear from the beginning that you will not tolerate cheating in an exclusive relationship. No need to disclose that you have been cheated on in the past (somehow men interpret this as baggage) you’re just laying down some rules. Agree with others say about letting them know that if they don’t treat you with decency, then you will walk away with no hesitation.

pperfection · 2020-10-05T18:45:36+00:00

I liked response from u/rft24

That book is truly just about boundaries and essentially only being sweet and accommodating when the man has earned it. Don’t think that’s any different than any other relationship- people should only get the best of you if they give you the same energy.

Being clear about what your standards are is important, men don’t do “hints” or meta messages. The second piece is enforcing their adherence to your standards by attention/sweetness (positive) and lack of attention/independence (negative). The negative could even just be spending time on self care or spending time with friends/family instead of spending time with him. It’s not like you’re shouting at him or being a literal bitch, you’re just placing him in “time out” because you have your own life.

I personally think until you have a ring on your finger, you must assert independence in varying degrees. As the relationship progresses you can start to be more dependent - emotionally, financially, etc. But he must always earn it. Men do like the challenge/chase and won’t respect you otherwise.

To me, the book confirmed the premise that you must always be ready to walk out the door. Another recommended read is Law of Attraction or any negotiation book. Person with the upper hand is the one who is ready to walk away from it all. One of the main points in Law of Attraction is that people can sense when you’re dependent on them, they can smell it as weakness. So displaying that independence, making it clear “I will go be alone if you don’t know how to act” is so very important.

If you set those boundaries right from the beginning, you won’t even have to tell him “I will leave if you cheat” because your actions would have already communicated that you’d leave him for a lot less LOL in my current LTR I was a grade A bitch from the beginning literally telling him at an apology dinner he took me to “if you don’t treat me right I will leave” with a Bitch face. Yeah. He got the message.

babylonianprincess · 2020-10-08T16:34:30+00:00

Always be kind and polite dolls, but with the exception to self-dignity... be tyrannical.

babylonianprincess · 2020-10-09T16:31:09+00:00

I really hate games. But when hes being a straight up prick with a “fuck off” response how can any female not respond to prick by being a bitch? But its an ugly loop one has to put foot down. So how? Without a divorce. No matter how justified he feels in his frustrations not to ever degrade or use derogatory language against mother of his child for God’s sake?

WeeChickadeeFromSC · 2020-11-02T18:33:04+00:00

There’s a difference b/t being a BITCH and being ASSERTIVE when needed as well as when necessary, to avoid being a doormat. Men don’t like bitchy women. Bitches are unpleasant. A woman can be firm and assertive, w/o being a bitch.

In general, I would never recommend being bitchy.

rosesonthefloor · 2020-10-01T19:37:30+00:00

[removed]

Title	When do you stop being a bitch?
Author	TranslatedSky
Upvotes	21
Comments	32
Date	October 1, 2020 7:27 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWives
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWives/comments/j3feog/when_do_you_stop_being_a_bitch/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWives/when-do-you-stop-being-a-bitch.274317 https://theredarchive.com/post/274317

Comments