"Lifting" Is Not Enough

jesper_lundqvist · 2018-06-04T11:30:15+00:00

"You're using your physique as an excuse. You're making a scapegoat out of your body. "I didn't pull tonight: I guess I need to work more on my incline bench press.""

If someone concludes they didn't pull because of one shortcoming out of a whole range of factors, he's completely missed the point of self-improvement, which is to target your weaknesses and eliminate them. It is, however, just the case that some factors hold more weight (pun very much not intended) than others. You might think it narrow that someone thinks their lack of physique cost them, but it's a much better bet than saying, "I didn't pull tonight: I guess I need to work on my openers/pick-up routines/tactical negs etc."

The fundamental reason I don't put any stock in pick-up artistry is that it attempts to bypass the need for self-improvement rather than navigate it. It's a form of acting out to persuade a girl to hop into bed with you when you know full well she wouldn't have done otherwise. Sure some of these guys are convincing actors, but the majority are simply window-dressing their thinly-veiled thirst. If you don't have your house in order, it will show.

Getting into fit physical condition isn't a silver bullet to slaying pussy, but that doesn't mean it's not of prime importance. Almost every other factor stems from how fit and healthy you are. It raises your confidence and lowers your neuroticism, it affects people's willingness to trust you, your ability to deal with someone aggressive, etc. I would say that is actually 90% important because behaviour can be faked but there is absolutely no substitute for the real thing.

Alchemist_XP · 2018-06-04T10:06:43+00:00

I’ve been reading a shitload of posts on this sub and commenting very little. From what I gather it’s clear the lifting aspect is part of the mans journey to become a better man. To be busy, to raise testosterone, to feel better about yourself. I can’t recall a single post where there is a claim “all you need is lifting”.. so I’m not sure where you got this idea.

ramfex21 · 2018-06-04T10:21:53+00:00

Lifting doesn’t just give you bigger Chad muscles.. it gives you confidence, discipline and work ethic. It gives you a sense of self appreciation. This will increase your confidence with women, business, social circles etc. so yea it’s not all about getting ripped for women. Do it for yourself

The_Chiselnator · 2018-06-04T11:38:06+00:00

You missed the point. We don't value lifting here because it helps you get women. Because women are not our objective. They are the by-product of our investing in ouselves.

Lifting is a key pillar of that self improvement because it teaches discipline, humility, dealing with frustration, doing again and again what you don't want to do all of which are very useful in other spheres of manly pursuit.

What is happening here is that there is a lot of guests who have no idea what TRP is and assume they know what it is just because they have perused 3 or 4 posts.

Women are not the objective. They are a byproduct of a man being on his mission. A man on his mission is the prize.

MattyAnon · 2018-06-04T13:15:14+00:00

Whether it be because they are short, balding or straight up ugly, RSD is full of instructors who are not classically physically attractive.

Their best instructors are very physically attractive. They brought on some fatter ones more recently to justify their "looks don't matter" message, but I've seen no evidence these guys get the same results as the attractive guys.

When you first watch their videos you are astounded at their success with 9s and 10s as it challenges everything you thought you knew about the SMP.

A fat blob can get a woman laughing for a few minutes. You don't see him fucking her.

Before I continue I should mention that I am well aware of the argument that RSD diminish the importance of physical appearance as a marketing ploy to convince skinny ugly dweebs to pay for programs even though they have no chance of pulling the 10s they are promised. I have heard these arguments, but I don't buy it, because of what I have experienced and seen with my own eyes

Examples ?

And the reason I'm trying to get that across is so that you will maybe listen to me when I tell you that it DOES NOT HELP MY GAME IN THE SLIGHTEST.

How do you know it doesn't? Being good looking gets you a massive headstart. The difference in response men get between being slim and being fat is worlds apart.

Being big and strong isn't enough, but it's a hell of a head start.

I don't get approached on the street and I rarely get opened in a club

Women don't approach strangers.

I have to work just as hard as any other guy when it comes to pulling girls and have gone home alone many times while shorter, uglier, skinnier guys with better game get the girl.

You don't have to work as hard. Call their bluff more. Walk away more. Have more abundance mentality. You'll find you get the same results if you put a lot less effort into each girl.

I realised how many times I "only just got the girl". And looking back this is because the girl got me to work exactly as hard as I was prepared to before sex. This is what they do. Don't fall for it. Call her bluff. Work less hard. Demonstrate some value, then stop putting energy into the chase.

If you're well built and having problems getting girls it's because your game sucks fucking balls. You need both, and noone is saying otherwise.

There's so much on this sub about giving girls emotions. And yet that idea seems to go out the window when people start talking about "lifting". Being in shape will NEVER get you the girl. It might help. But giving the girl emotions (via eye contact, vibe, frame etc.) will always be far more important.

It's both. What the fuck is with this black and white thinking I have no idea. Yes you have to lift, it's good for you and makes you a lot more masculine. But noone is saying it's everything, otherwise all sexual strategy would be "lift". That's hardly the case and only a retard would say it is. (Obviously there are some retards around here).

DareyFathom · 2018-06-04T10:13:02+00:00

It’s not that complicated. Looks alone are not everything. But if you think they are only 10%, particularly with the prevalence of dating apps/sites/social media, then you’d also be wrong. It’s the total package.

CreatedItJust2Saythi · 2018-06-04T12:04:18+00:00

I said on another post physical/visual attractiveness is 95%, while game is only 5%.

I said then there is a 3 second barrier past which redpillers miss or forget that 95% attractiveness/5% game big picture.

However I forgot to mention there is yet another barrier to surmount. Because even if you manage to surmount the 3 second barrier and you manage to permanently retain the 95% attractiveness\5% game big picture, you will probably fall into another trap, into another barrier to surmount:

Your brain will trick you into 5% > 95%

'But giving the girl emotions (via eye contact, vibe, frame etc.) will always be far more important.'

This is your brain tricking you into 5% > 95%

Believe me: if a girl has to decide which is more important, either the eye contact, the vibe, the frame, etc... that come from a fat, bald, ugly, smelly man, or the visuals of muscles and of male bodily power, superiority and uniqueness aesthetics, you can place your bet on muscles. Don't let The Red Pill become the new Disney Company: when it comes to women, beauty is outside, and it's 95%.

Talk is cheap; muscle is expensive. Game is nice, only you have to express it in the suitable language, the language that makes it real: the body, muscle language; rather than the spoken or behavior language.

TRP gives you game, but NOT as a replacement for muscles. NEVER allow game to replace weights. If you are not lifting, you are using the Red Pill WRONG.

Remember that muscles make the hamster believe it's seeing emotions, and game. Just like curves make your male hamster believe it's seeing teasing, IOI's, flirting, a sexual invitation, etc

Rehab your brain for beating the 3 second psychological barrier: permanently retain attractiveness is 95%, game is 5%
Rehab your brain for beating the 5% > 95% psychological barrier after you beat the 3 second barrier. Don't let The Red Pill become the new Disney Company: beauty is outside when it comes to girls. Keep Maths and Physics as our "Mike's Secret".

And yes: lifting is not enough, but it's brutally NECESSARY, to the extent that better single and handsome than married and unsightly:

A woman who has a handsome boyfriend is with him because she actually feels a honest desire and ambition for him, and a honest fulfilling bliss for being her girlfriend.

But you can bet every woman you see having a relationship with an ugly, physically lesser man already has an AF past and is with that ugly man for reasons very different from the sexual enthusiasm and submission of the woman with the handsome boyfriend.

You don't simply want pussy, you can pay for pussy or study gynecology. You want honest, WILLING pussy, a pussy honestly and enthusiastically dying for your handsomeness, and devotedly submitted to your esthetic power.

You want Red Pill? You get Red Pill: LIFT. Weights are your red pills. And yes, they are hard to swallow.

Warped_Mindless · 2018-06-04T12:27:49+00:00

Usually when you have two opposite extremes, such as looks dont matter vs looks are the only thing that matters, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Lifting and looks are important but where many here go wrong is they feel they need to be huge to be attractive where as most women dont find huge muscles all that attractive. Studies have shown that the perfect amount of muscle for attraction purposes is close to an ambercrombie model or fight club Brad Pitt. Yes there are exceptions and some women get really wet at the sight og some massive body builder but not most.

anabolic92 · 2018-06-04T13:11:21+00:00

You should go to the gym 6 days a week to get V'd out and build an impressive set of guns. That's how you get girls!

No, TRP bases the way you attract women based on the SMP which mainly is a balance between looks, status and money.

I'm on the same boat as you, if you pick 10 random people from the gym I'll be top 20% easily, 10% top if you pick them on the street.

You cannot have the physique if you have no game. Sure, it will get you some lays/ONS but it's not a good strategy long term.

Trust me, there is nothing that dries the pussy more than an alpha (purely based on looks) appearance with a shit game/frame, girls will see within the first 5 words you say.

TL;DR: Yes I also feel sometimes the lift message on TRP is over exaggerated, but also most of the people isn't a social potato like me and has some kind of game/frame naturally, the physique is missing.

altlegend · 2018-06-04T15:06:12+00:00

Side Comment: Work abs separately because squats, dead lifts, etc. work the core but will not sculpt.

leviathan51 · 2018-06-04T15:31:15+00:00

On the best days before I started lifting I got as much attention as on the worst days today.

__ROOSTER__ · 2018-06-04T19:29:38+00:00

1) lift 2) economics 3) peer group of men 4) hobby 5) sexual strategy

The reason 1 is lift is it impacts everything else. It changes your chemistry to make everything easier AND it helps with find #3

"lift" should be shorthand for lift, fight, shoot as the strength itself isn't as awesome as the ability to engage in combat if required.

acekilo · 2018-06-04T20:09:48+00:00

Be about your PURPOSE. Do you have a good job? The type of car you drive? Women only see possession so that plays a role too. How about signs that women are waiting to get laid? What kinda drinks is she ordering is it Vodka mix drinks or long island ice tea? Women go to bars and clubs to lose their inhibition to fuck men. Don't be afraid of rejections either. Or fuck it plan a vacation with some of the homies and go to Brazil, Japan, Thailand, Australia, Poland. Start traveling when you have a chance man. You will have a whole new outlook when you do.

NormalAndy · 2018-06-04T10:39:34+00:00

One hand washes the other mate.

Lifting is part of it, game is part of it, frame is part of it, power is part of it. There is no magic bullet in 'lifting'.

The gym is a good place to start though: turning up, doing something hard, challenging yourself, creating a program, planning workouts, recording progress, building confidence, composure, patience, accepting yourself, getting in touch with your body, overcoming failure...

Underneath the main term 'lifting' lies numerous more basic skills which transfer well into other areas of your life. On the most basic physical level, squats and deadlifts, for example will improve control over the vast majority of any big movements and interactions you have outside of the gym- and that can only help.

But to understand things in terms of only simplistic physical benefits is to merely scratch the surface- there is so much more to be gained.

abudun79 · 2018-06-04T10:41:44+00:00

Thanks! Good to read your post. I think the comments you get will help other readers, who got the same misunderstanding about the way lifting will improve your life and success with women.

BTW: I think the title is misleading. You write about physical appearance, not lifting.

31Olives · 2018-06-04T10:45:10+00:00

No woman will have sex with an obese man unless they are themselves obese. The Dad bod is a turn off. Being fit sets the foundation. It is where you start.

I know the difference. I am NOT invisible any more. I have noted small changes, like a random women holding eye contact and smiling. Never happened before. I also get touched by women I already know or work with. Fitness alone won't get you laid unless you are a "GOD" , but it is where the rest of us start.

Fitness is the foundation.

ApexmanRP · 2018-06-04T10:45:39+00:00

"I was surprised to find that the TRP community values "lifting" and physical appearance so much."

Because most guys are not like you - "I am 6 foot 3, 210 pounds, with very broad shoulders and visible abs". in fact nowhere near you. And its one of the simplest (not easiest) things you can do to improve your appearance.

And lifting isn't just about getting pussy, its self improvement, discipline and mastery, but you already know this.

Having said that, the thrust of your post is exactly right. Lifting isn't enough. I see this at the gym and when I am out. Big guys can still be abject Betas.

livefast06 · 2018-06-04T11:09:06+00:00

Always remember that no matter how yoked you look, or how strong or how aesthetic you look, will ever compare to who YOU are. The outside may be a reflection of what’s inside but it could also be you hiding from personal development. And if you’re paycholigcally/socially/spiritually underdeveloped or have a lot of bullshit you need to sort out with yourself and are hiding it under a physique, people will smell that shit from a mile away and those people end up living in hellish phases of depression and despair.

IMO lifting, and aspiring to develop who you are simultaneously, that will give the highest ROI.

UnpluggedMan · 2018-06-04T13:34:01+00:00

My experience in the looks department vs. actually having good game is much the same as yours OP. I think that the main benefit from lifting is mental. Heavy compound lifts especially increase test, which has the effect of creating a more masculine mindset and obviously results in more "alpha" behavior. All of the behavioral and physical ques that are attractive to women are just markers of a high test male anyway.

Having said that if you have deeper mental blocks that hold you back from approaching/developing your game, just the lifting may well not be enough to overcome it. I can definitely attest to that.

Darkone06 · 2018-06-04T17:58:25+00:00

I hate to get all Wolf of Wall street on you but, pick up some weights.

Does your girlfriend think your a fucking worthless loser ? good , pick up some weights .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQleT6BtCbE

The first step infeeling better and stop feeling like a worthless loser is to feel confident picking up some weights .

Jake_le_Dog · 2018-06-04T19:22:58+00:00

I watched very few rsd videos just before I discovered this sub back when. I remember revisiting the ones I had watched sometime after. I was thinking how hard the guy has to try to pick up the girl. Sure it worked, and that's what I liked about it first, like you described. But now I know, sure as hell, mindset, physical excellence, and all kinds of skills make it a breeze. And women come. Just like Pook talks about in The Book of Pook, he put on 50lbs muscle, the shit became super easy for him.

E: for your reading pleasures: http://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/what-every-skinny-guy-should-know.60002/ a fucking favorite

cyberpunkforall · 2018-06-05T04:36:57+00:00

are you facially average or subpar?

guys tell you you're handsome means nothing

IBeMadToo · 2018-06-05T09:21:30+00:00

Lifting should be in your top priorities because it yields so many benefits.

But if you read the sidebar, lifting isn't the one and only priority. It just helps build a framework for your progress.

Rollo_Mayhem3 · 2018-06-05T19:47:11+00:00

"I fully believe that's because you finally gave yourself permission to start acting like an alpha."

Maybe. But I know that people will start to comment to me about my physique even after I started to "act more alpha." People at work, people from around the block, friends, plates... I was already implementing TRP when I knew these people...so, I do think that having an attractive physique can create attraction with women (and men) even if you are already confidence etc.. The same is true for women, when women lose weight, tighten their ass up...they start to be more attractive even with shit personalities. Trust me, people are superficial, esp. women.

[deleted] · 2018-06-06T07:30:44+00:00

of course your body matters a lot. dont act like your jacked body doesnt help at all. it helps a lot, to show power, grab attention, and show that you are a legit man. gtfo with that wisdom shit. thats the same as good looking guys saying "just go up to her bro, looks dont matter"

PlasticPlan777 · 2018-06-12T02:28:50+00:00

It's true that being strong helps you feel confident, which comes across through your actions and demeanor, but being fit is also a definite way to attract females. I went through a three-year period of heavy lifting during which time I skyrocketed from 165lbs to 200lbs and with that I acquired a 345lb squat (below parallel) and a 420lb deadlift. That was raw and without a belt, too. I went from being a skinny b**** to a confident man whose work ethic (clear from my full, real squats--as opposed to most guys' half squats) literally transformed my entire mindset. During this period, I had a few intimate encounters. Then I tore my labrum in a freak accident. I was benching while wearing a shirt with a graphic sewn on the back (like a patch) and my shoulder slid out of the safe tucked position in the middle of a set. The labrum is healed now--though they had to remove the anchor after a year, since it wasn't absorbed into the bone and grinded down a good deal of my cartilage--but I have developed terrible tendinitis and/or a nerve issue in my neck which causes burning and weakness throughout my shoulders, trap, and arms. Doctors still don't know what's wrong, but I haven't been able to lift weights for two years now. Everything that I gained is gone and I am even thinner than before I started. I get zero looks from women again and none of them know that I am a strong-willed alpha beast who just happens to be stuck in a prison-like chronically f***ed beta body. I guess in summary, my point is that being muscular is really the main way to attract a female. My life was completely different during the periods in which I had muscles.

Odimorsus · 2018-06-04T16:32:46+00:00

It could be as simple as there being enough guys in the world who lift approaching women that it's just not very impressive, therefore to stand out, you need something else to stand out from them.

When everyone is working on having the good physique, the charismatic ones with awesome talents, who are good at holding interesting conversations on top of that will stand out among the ones who don't.

Ray_pinasses1210 · 2018-06-04T23:53:27+00:00

I worked in a gym in my younger days and I noticed something interesting The more jacked a guy a guy was, the worse his frame was

You see, when you focus solely on your physique as your only tool in your seduction Arsenal, you become predictable and frankly, creepy and to try-hard

I remember a few “chads” who had the classic chad look, but their game consisted of simply lifting up their shirts to show abs, or asking chicks to touch their biceps. No escalation, no fun teasing, no kino or anything. Sure it worked on a few chicks here and there, but it didn’t work on a lot more chicks, simply bc it came off a very unnatural and very awkward.

Didn’t matter the guys had Adonis like physique, without the charming personality or the rock solid frame, it comes off as awkward and too inauthentic

So yes lifting is Important but it’s not more/less important than frame, confidence, and being well rounded

Don’t get caught in the “big and jacked is everything” mindset

[deleted] · 2018-06-04T11:19:44+00:00

Gym's are mostly full of aggressive insecure losers. I see it every day and believe me, the women there do too. Once the hot girls start gravitating to my area so do the aggressive insecure losers. 5% body fat and a 600 pound dead lift on an insecure man = loser. Women can smell it. Don't be a gymcel.

Wallace44 · 2018-06-04T19:49:42+00:00

If you believe that lifting is not enough, then you're not lifting enough.

Title	"Lifting" Is Not Enough
Author	Devils_Duke
Upvotes	14
Comments	66
Date	June 4, 2018 9:58 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/8og2xj/lifting_is_not_enough/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/lifting-is-not-enough.50654 https://theredarchive.com/post/50654

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