Why men are falling behind...

grendalor · 2015-01-07T22:51:01+00:00

Women and men don't have the same reproductive value. Women have a higher value because of the gestation period. This puts "womb space" at a premium as compared with sperm, because every womb can only produce one offspring per year (roughly). So if your tribe loses 90% of the men but retains all the women, it can rebuild. If it loses 90% of the women, it's done. So it's built in (bio-wired) that female humans have a higher reproductive value because of this bottleneck in reproduction that rests in the female body. As the saying goes: "eggs are expensive, sperm is cheap".

This is also why women (or their proxies, which was for most of history fathers/male relatives) are going to be the ones in a position of selecting mates -- males display, and the females (or their proxies) choose. This is also because, as between the sexes, most evolutionary selection has happened in the male sex -- that is, many, many more males were selected "out" and did not reproduce, over long history in our species, than females. That's because men are where the larger variations are in traits -- more male geniuses and more male retards than among women. Women are more clustered in the middle of traits, which puts them below the best men, but higher than the worst men. So men are more expendable, especially the further down you go -- which is why women (or their proxies) selected, and many males did not make the cut. This is true even if, in deep history, this happened because other men, who were genetically superior, simply killed them -- men killing other men ("let's you and him fight") is perhaps the most basic example of "males display, and females choose", because it is the winner who gets the female, while the loser dies and does not reproduce. So again, on average, the men are more expendable, and have lower value, than the women do.

Of course, it "doesn't make sense" to apply this in a culture where most sex is not reproductive and so on, but that doesn't matter. Attraction and sex are based on very deep wiring, and are not going to change over a very short period of time (like the last 50 years). The wiring is the same as it always was. That's why it's also the case, for example, why men are much more attracted to a young, fit woman in the peak of her fertile years -- even if they have no intention of siring a child with her, and will go out of their way to ensure that they are not siring a child. The attraction is based on fertility cues, anyway, even though the sex is intended to be anything but fecund.

Given all of this, men need to accept it as a fact of life that they have lower reproductive value than women do, on average -- that's biology, and a change in personal mindset doesn't change it. What you can change, of course, is making sure you are the guy who wins when competing against other men in the great game of being the guys who are selected for sex/mating. Yes, it's true that this is all very fucked up given the current culture we live in where women are empowered financially and legally and so on, but none of that changes the basic sexual dynamic. In fact, it simply intensifies the competition. Now, men need to compete, harshly and vigorously, because we're again approaching a kind of jungle era where most men don't have sexual access, and only a small part do. The key is being part of that small part. And as women become more empowered, this trend will only increase -- it's very true that male beauty is becoming more important than it has been for mate selection than it has been for thousands and thousands of years, and that's because women are more empowered. So men are now working hard on their beauty (lifting, clothes, style, etc.) as well as their personas. They have to win a beauty contest to gain access to independent, empowered women for sex -- and so that is what we are doing. People may think it is silly to look at it that way, but that's what it is, in part. And realizing that is no weakness. Not in the least. As men, we simply investigate, gather intel, find what works, do that, and then succeed -- regardless of what it is. And in this era, that means getting into the "top twenty" so that you are selected by women for sex. That entire thing, the entire setup, is way beyond your control -- but what is in your control is your ability to improve yourself so as to win the game under the current setup -- and that's what TRP is all about.

harkrank · 2015-01-08T00:56:39+00:00

Feminism is a symptom, not the cause. Industrialization was a huge shock to humanity and we still haven't come to grips with it.

_JSmooth · 2015-01-08T01:46:31+00:00

You're wrong about the 80/20 rule being a social phenomenon. It's very biological. A woman can reproduce every 9 months. A man can reproduce every 9 minutes.
Think about that for a second.
Women have objectively higher reproductive value.

trpMilo · 2015-01-07T23:53:33+00:00

Women's reproductive value IS higher than a man's. Men are disposable. The few men who are left can repopulate a society devastated by war or famine. But every woman lost vitally reduces a society's ability to continue on. It's evolutionarily programmed that we understand this unconsciously

Ties5o · 2015-01-07T21:35:43+00:00

This is a very good post, but I would point out one thing. Woman's period of peak reproductive power is generally shorter- 18-30. Men have a much larger window. So while men as whole will never have a period of as intense intrinsic reproductive value, the red pill man that takes care of himself will have a much larger window of moderate reproductive value.

asd1100 · 2015-01-08T02:41:47+00:00

men are a "resource", women are a "prize"...

when society prospers everybody wants "prizes" so their value(social importance) goes up. Ain't nobody got time to waste with "resources" when you have alternatives at every corner(self esteem culture, easy access to resources and utilities, a abundance of capital).

agrafes · 2015-01-07T22:20:42+00:00

Go read The Manipulated Man if you haven't already. Author breaks down what you're saying incredibly well, with much more insight into other spheres of life. <70pg pdf available online for free, no excuse not to read it.

Occams_Shiv · 2015-01-08T02:45:19+00:00

I believe men and women don't OBJECTIVELY have different physical reproductive value but this is artificially created by social conditioning and false beliefs i.e. men believe they must have lower reproductive value because they can't have kids or women are supposedly less horny than men.

You are objectively wrong. grendalor's post below describes why you are wrong in clear generous detail. But in short, your post displays a lack of understanding of the concept of value, paired with a faith in the power/existence of unproven social constructs to to prop up your argument, which is a mess of MRA butthurt, wishful thinking, faulty reasoning, and poorly understood RedPill cliches.

Subtletorious · 2015-01-08T01:41:25+00:00

Women have always been involved in the workforce. The differences occurred in expectations for married women but that was a time when running a household was itself a fulltime position.

raiseurT · 2015-01-08T04:56:13+00:00

"Women are culturally less proactive and more passive than men i.e. victim mentality"

"Men as a group are getting screwed"

....

rebuildingMyself · 2015-01-08T06:36:03+00:00

Feminism is a society-wide shit test that we collectively failed. Their advice to men is 'be themselves and someday a woman thrown off the CC with two bastard will want to marry (and then eventually divorce-rape) them. Not one thing feminists pushed for benefits men in any way.

In other words, keep plowing the field like a good mule and clean up someone else's mess so the government doesn't have to.

through_a_ways · 2015-01-08T09:28:00+00:00

Yes, this is like sex dynamics 101

1900: Female reproductive value is countered by male status and provisioning value

2000: Female status and provisioning value is equal with men's, and men don't become universally more attractive, therefore men fall behind.

BrunoOh · 2015-01-07T21:37:35+00:00

Good read.

This is reinforced mainly by men because they find women physically attractive and don't understand that women also find men physically attractive.

To be fair, this is a tough one to internalize.

I believe men and women don't OBJECTIVELY have different physical reproductive value but this is artificially created by social conditioning and false beliefs i.e. men believe they must have lower reproductive value

Women DO have higher reproductive value. Biology 101. That's why it's the men that have to demonstrate value. Of course, if you're an alpha male you have comparable or higher value.

This is why feminism was mainly created by angry ugly/unattractive women as they were ignored by men and couldn't get a job/career to make up for their shortcomings.

A recurring theme. Take the slut walks for example. When I heard this was a thing I figured I'd bust a nut at the pictures, but guess what? 100% fatties and uglies. Clever, beautiful or interesting women don't need to slut around for male attention.

involuntary celibate women

Also a thing. Binge an hour on /r/foreveralonewomen, it's worth it.

fhghg · 2015-01-07T22:08:34+00:00

It's a global economy. Men who don't realize this are doomed just as business who don't outsource/offshore like their competitors. We live in a bubble here in America.

DMAredditer · 2015-01-08T02:31:14+00:00

So what are you gonna do about it?

cesarfd · 2015-01-08T09:42:10+00:00

At the end of the day, "The Rule" wins: women are the ones who control sex. They decide when it is going to happen.

There is no way to escape this no matter how alpha/successful a man becomes.

CanadianMastermind · 2015-01-07T22:36:28+00:00

Yeah, as a gay guy who mostly just lurks this subreddit out of, uh, curiosity, I thought I would reply and say that I agree with most of your post. Most of the gender theory posted on this subreddit is very much skewed toward a straight male's perspective. This is understandable to some degree (given the nature of the audience), but all too often these perspectives get passed off as "biotruths". Women aren't "objectively" more sexually attractive, for example. The sexual attraction a person feels is spurred on by a person's orientation and individual fetishes. It's not something independent of chemical reactions in our brains.

Killabot · 2015-01-07T22:33:21+00:00

At first I thought this was going to be about men falling behind in education. I was quite surprised but I found this post interesting and enjoyed it a lot.

beerthroway · 2015-01-08T01:01:38+00:00

I would really love that link to the study on sexual success being correlated with career success. It would be extremely relevant to my life because I've had sex twice in the past two years mostly because I live in the middle of nowhere and have been focusing on my business and making money. I'd like to see the criteria used.

clayjaxxx · 2015-01-08T03:16:23+00:00

I believe in this so strongly. This is explains this month of my life but in the end I never know what to do. Kind of sucks honestly.

CaesarDraugr · 2015-01-08T03:28:30+00:00

Sounds a lot like the 24th undeniable truth of life.

tallwheel · 2015-01-08T04:06:56+00:00

You have a lot of things correct here, but on whether men and women are objectively equal in reproductive value you are dead wrong. Evolutionary biology can show you plenty of reasons why your thinking on this is most likely dead in the water.

You are absolutely correct that as a society we have overinflated women's sexual value while devaluing men's, however your conclusion that the difference is entirely cultural rather than biological is too absolute. Culture is created by biology.

Also, the casual MGTOW shaming was not cool. There are plenty of MGTOW here who have chosen their path based on careful introspection and an assessment of the societal situation through a redpill perspective.

1003rp · 2015-01-08T17:15:58+00:00

Dude, calling men the more oppressed gender is sinking to their level. Real men are never victims. Maybe some men are being oppressed, but those men are oppressed for. Reason. They are weak and deserve to be oppressed. Real men are still able to flourish and reap the benefits that are associated with being a man and that's what we are doing here at TRP. We are discussing how to become a real man who doesn't have to bitch about being oppressed because he grabs life by the balls, lifts, works on his game, and dates multiple women.

I never thought I would see a day TRP has a post about men being oppressed in western society. I don't want to be like those feminist cunts that cry about being oppressed all the time. Those women feel oppressed because they are shitting at being a woman. Women who excel at being women are rewarded and men who excel at being men reap similar benefits.

iJJD · 2015-01-07T23:52:02+00:00

One of the best things you said was that men themselves act and believe as if they have lower reproductive value. From everything I have experienced, the reproductive drive is equal but men have been taught to devalue themselves in this field especially with things like "Girls can get laid whenever they want" being passed around their whole life. It's important to understand your value and not put things on a pedestal and I like your post

Karol754 · 2015-01-07T23:34:12+00:00

Saw this at the front page of reddit. See guys we are not rapists, mysoginists, or woman killers.

watersign · 2015-01-07T22:31:17+00:00

Men are falling behind because our school systems suck. If you see a white kid with an engineering degree and he works in a STEM field or has a good corporate job..it means hes fucking smart and he beat the odds. He beat the shitskins (asians, indians, etc) at their own game, but many are fucked.

Also..corporate America HATES employees.

As far as the trades go..most schools got rid of any vocational programs and even theyre pretty shitty. Theyre usually dumping the retards and muds there

Title	Why men are falling behind...
Author	purgatoryguy
Upvotes	72
Comments	88
Date	January 7, 2015 8:38 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2rnykd/why_men_are_falling_behind/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/why-men-are-falling-behind.27660 https://theredarchive.com/post/27660

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