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purgatoryguy
[–]1grendalor30 points31 points32 points 11 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link
Women and men don't have the same reproductive value. Women have a higher value because of the gestation period. This puts "womb space" at a premium as compared with sperm, because every womb can only produce one offspring per year (roughly). So if your tribe loses 90% of the men but retains all the women, it can rebuild. If it loses 90% of the women, it's done. So it's built in (bio-wired) that female humans have a higher reproductive value because of this bottleneck in reproduction that rests in the female body. As the saying goes: "eggs are expensive, sperm is cheap".
This is also why women (or their proxies, which was for most of history fathers/male relatives) are going to be the ones in a position of selecting mates -- males display, and the females (or their proxies) choose. This is also because, as between the sexes, most evolutionary selection has happened in the male sex -- that is, many, many more males were selected "out" and did not reproduce, over long history in our species, than females. That's because men are where the larger variations are in traits -- more male geniuses and more male retards than among women. Women are more clustered in the middle of traits, which puts them below the best men, but higher than the worst men. So men are more expendable, especially the further down you go -- which is why women (or their proxies) selected, and many males did not make the cut. This is true even if, in deep history, this happened because other men, who were genetically superior, simply killed them -- men killing other men ("let's you and him fight") is perhaps the most basic example of "males display, and females choose", because it is the winner who gets the female, while the loser dies and does not reproduce. So again, on average, the men are more expendable, and have lower value, than the women do.
Of course, it "doesn't make sense" to apply this in a culture where most sex is not reproductive and so on, but that doesn't matter. Attraction and sex are based on very deep wiring, and are not going to change over a very short period of time (like the last 50 years). The wiring is the same as it always was. That's why it's also the case, for example, why men are much more attracted to a young, fit woman in the peak of her fertile years -- even if they have no intention of siring a child with her, and will go out of their way to ensure that they are not siring a child. The attraction is based on fertility cues, anyway, even though the sex is intended to be anything but fecund.
Given all of this, men need to accept it as a fact of life that they have lower reproductive value than women do, on average -- that's biology, and a change in personal mindset doesn't change it. What you can change, of course, is making sure you are the guy who wins when competing against other men in the great game of being the guys who are selected for sex/mating. Yes, it's true that this is all very fucked up given the current culture we live in where women are empowered financially and legally and so on, but none of that changes the basic sexual dynamic. In fact, it simply intensifies the competition. Now, men need to compete, harshly and vigorously, because we're again approaching a kind of jungle era where most men don't have sexual access, and only a small part do. The key is being part of that small part. And as women become more empowered, this trend will only increase -- it's very true that male beauty is becoming more important than it has been for mate selection than it has been for thousands and thousands of years, and that's because women are more empowered. So men are now working hard on their beauty (lifting, clothes, style, etc.) as well as their personas. They have to win a beauty contest to gain access to independent, empowered women for sex -- and so that is what we are doing. People may think it is silly to look at it that way, but that's what it is, in part. And realizing that is no weakness. Not in the least. As men, we simply investigate, gather intel, find what works, do that, and then succeed -- regardless of what it is. And in this era, that means getting into the "top twenty" so that you are selected by women for sex. That entire thing, the entire setup, is way beyond your control -- but what is in your control is your ability to improve yourself so as to win the game under the current setup -- and that's what TRP is all about.
[–]Kill_Your_Ego18 points19 points20 points 11 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
No kidding. I wish the mods would erase this guys post. It has a small amount of decent info in it but his whole premise is wrong.
The stickied post on the front page is telling people to go read www.therationalmale.com. NO SHIT. That's basic beginning stuff. Read the whole thing through. Read the comments.
Read the book of pook. Read bonecracker. Read the entire sidebar and every link in it.
Most of what gets posted around here now is just like basic beginner sidebar stuff. And much of it is wrong.
I'd also like to point out that the 80/20 rule is basic hypergamy. If every single man in the world suddenly had 8% body fat, a killer career, incredible game, and massive status this would in no way eliminate the 80/20 rule. The 80/20 rule doesn't exist because of men. It's part of hypergamy. Women want the best. The best is the top 20%. Irregardless of whether everyone is homeless or whether everyone is a rock star.
OP's whole post should be erased.
[–]JB318853 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Thank you for your post. Constantly reading about how this is some new phenomenon is ridiculous. Feminism is a load of shit but women have been chasing the same type of guy since the beginning of time. They may have used different ways of going about it (saving themselves/playing hard to get) rather then just slanging pussy but it's been the same deal since time began. Like you said if every man walked around ripped and full of confidence we'd have the same problem. It would just be based on looks and personality and there would be a subreddit focused on how to change your personality and looks. Use this subreddit to your advantage and quit trying to blame society for your shortcomings. I was doing it for way too long and many people here have finally made me realize I was wrong. you're not going to change the nature of society by analyzing it.
[–]purgatoryguy[S] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
maybe you're right about that... but there's always a dialogue between society and individual personalities, which is why society and cultures change over time. It doesn't hurt to be aware of the society you live in...
Anyway of course as men you need to know when to stop bitching and take responsibility to push yourself forward.
[–]ModMachiavellianRed[M] 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I concur. /u/grendalor is on point (and should make a thread out of his post) OP is off the mark in many ways, and also somewhat whiny in tone (I do not doubt he hasn't long swallowed the pill and this is more of a rant than it is "theory.")
In light of this, thread's been nuked.
[–]purgatoryguy[S] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Right, so you don't see merit in my post whatsoever... Others do though.
It's not a rant, it's a theory - why delete it just because you don't like it?
[–]ModMachiavellianRed[M] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
See, you don't get RP. Now you've questioned me, you've brought attention to yourself. I've looked at your young account age and your posting history and my hunch was right - you don't get RP. You're more of an MRA - you want to see men as victims of feminism. We don't internalize that mentality here and we don't welcome it. You're banned. See ya in the mod mail.
[+]purgatoryguy[S] -10 points-9 points-8 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
You're clueless. Men are just as attracted by status as women - if you could, would you pick some random hot chick or Megan Fox? Exactly.
The 80/20 rule or women's sexual advantage is only there because men give it to women by approaching all the time - especially now with online dating the numbers are ridiculous.
Women mostly get laid when and with who they want just because of the sheer options they have of men approaching them. Consequently they have no need to approach men themselves unless they are very very interested in one particular guy.
That is the ONLY reason women are naturally harder to please and pickier than men.
[–]StevenLaBerge5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The status of Megan Fox doesn't make her more attractive sexually. The only reason I'd choose her over a random girl is because of peoples' validation and access to high status events. So if noone in the world would know about it and I could choose between Megan Fox and a hotter girl, I'd choose the latter.
[–]2popthatpill4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
if you could, would you pick some random hot chick or Megan Fox?
I'd pick whichever one is hotter.
[–]smokingmonkey420 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
YOU don't get to CHOOSE Megan Fox. Megan Fox does the CHOOSING dumbass.
With that said, she looks no different than any other hot bitch you will find in every day normal life.
Listen I said IF you could choose - it was hypothetical. And if I was amazing with women I would be choosing Megan Fox or some other girl I like... anything is possible.
[–]Kill_Your_Ego2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I would rather fuck my pizza girl plate then Meghan Fox because I don't give two fucks about a woman's status. I care about what she looks like naked and how good she is at sucking my dick.
The only reason I would want to fuck whoever that is is to raise my preselection so I can plate young hot girls easier.
[–]admirals_go_nuts1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Depends, can I record a video? Then it's Megan Fox over any better looking girl.
[–]the99percent1-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Seriously, if sex is so bloody important, then why not just pay a hooker to fuck you?
Sex can be reduced to the lowest common denominator. One can easily have access to it for as cheap as 50 USD a session. Price varies and increases as you move up the escort chain.
So no, I don't see the competition becoming stiffer or vigorous. This sexual liberation is actually benefiting men. You now have more disposable income. Sex has variety, cheap and frequent. And men no longer have to make hard sacrifices in life.
Those that ultimately benefit from this are Men. In particular, Men who reward themselves first and foremost.
[–]1grendalor1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Sure, you can do that, but you don't need the red pill to learn how to pay hookers for sex. Any beta schlub can do that if he can afford it.
[–]harkrank 9 points10 points11 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Feminism is a symptom, not the cause. Industrialization was a huge shock to humanity and we still haven't come to grips with it.
[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Feminist bullshit was prevalent in ancient Rome and Greek culture, when they gain power the civilization declines at an ever increasing rate. Prosperity nurtures feminist bullshit and gynocentric thinking, because they have the time to be pissed off that nobody wants her fat ugly ass rather than being concerned with basic survival.
There is a cyclical nature to civilization. What goes around comes around, and history repeats or echos often.
[–]_JSmooth 9 points10 points11 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You're wrong about the 80/20 rule being a social phenomenon. It's very biological. A woman can reproduce every 9 months. A man can reproduce every 9 minutes. Think about that for a second. Women have objectively higher reproductive value.
[–]purgatoryguy[S] -5 points-4 points-3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
keep believing that if it suits you.
[–]trpMilo6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Women's reproductive value IS higher than a man's. Men are disposable. The few men who are left can repopulate a society devastated by war or famine. But every woman lost vitally reduces a society's ability to continue on. It's evolutionarily programmed that we understand this unconsciously
[+]csmass -11 points-10 points-9 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That's not logically sound. If every man lost vitality, women couldn't reproduce either. It goes both ways.
[–]Ties5o14 points15 points16 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
This is a very good post, but I would point out one thing. Woman's period of peak reproductive power is generally shorter- 18-30. Men have a much larger window. So while men as whole will never have a period of as intense intrinsic reproductive value, the red pill man that takes care of himself will have a much larger window of moderate reproductive value.
[–]purgatoryguy[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Men's ability to procreate is DEPENDENT on the women's ability to procreate so if a man gets too old it is unlikely he will have kids at all (unless he is a very high value male...i.e. rich/famous.)
If they take care of themselves, women have plenty of options even when they get older. Women are also attracted to youth as well therefore older men generally can only seduce older women.
Another misconception is that men get laid with loads of young girls once he realises how to talk to girls properly. It isn't true unfortunately. You'll probably never have sex with the hot college girl if you didn't get with her in school.
The red pill is a bitter pill to swallow. Men have been royally fucked over IMO.
[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
You think my 45 year old ass can only get naked with old wrinkled bitches? Kid, you haven't learned shit here. Girls half my age are easier than the wrinkled hags by a long shot. I let the old ones wallow in self pity while I fuck college age sluts.
I am not tall, not rich, not great looking, not bald, already gray, and I am so unfamous that even if I did something astounding nobody would notice, yet fucking 18-28 year olds is pathetically easy. If you want to be stuck with hags and used up single mothers then don't lift in your 20s, don't own the gray when it shows up and try to hide it, and by all means cling to the thinning hair as it races to the back of your skull. All you need to do at that point is act beta as fuck, because you will have zero confidence and you will repulse every chick that can fog a mirror.
I only have game and muscle going for me, yet I fuck college bitches all the time. What you do in your youth dictates what your life will be like at my age.
Additionally women who have kids older than 32 have ever increasing chances of birth defects. Their window is short, I could be popping fuck trophies out of college sluts constantly if I was still in the gene pool.
[–]purgatoryguy[S] -3 points-2 points-1 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
So you can bang girls 'half your age' but you're out of the the gene pool? I don't see this is much of an advantage to be honest.
[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Already had my kids 20 years ago, why the fuck would I want to have more? I'm done paying for them and living for myself now, so not having more kids is a huge advantage. I'm not tied down to anyone, will not be forced to pay someone to fuck some other guy for twenty years.
Either you're some kind of troll, or you're very naive and inexperienced if you think it's not advantageous to be able to fuck anyone and not have kids.
[–]The-Pussy-Whisperer 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
older men generally can only seduce older women.
lmao. Change your target demographic.
There are more "into older guys" girls out there than you think, trust me on this. All of my plates are in their 20s, and I am not...
[–]Ties5o0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I would say that guys on average have a 10-15 year larger window than girls. Its typical to see 35 year old guys with late 20's women, and 40 something men with 30 something women. I even once met a guy who was 54 with a pretty cute 30 year old.
I would agree that most older men are not slaying college poonany, however.
[–]asd1100 9 points9 points9 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
men are a "resource", women are a "prize"...
when society prospers everybody wants "prizes" so their value(social importance) goes up. Ain't nobody got time to waste with "resources" when you have alternatives at every corner(self esteem culture, easy access to resources and utilities, a abundance of capital).
[–]asdfghjkltyu2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
(self esteem culture, easy access to resources and utilities, a abundance of capital).
In many ways self esteem culture and technology has made men's position of sexual influence even lower. One of the key traits men have which they trade for female companionship is their attention and validation. Most women don't care that much about sex, its the validation that having the sex creates they want. Now they can get that without leaving the house from their smart phones.
So what does that mean? It means men have ever assets as validation is now given by a community not a single man.
Most men are utterly confused how to give this, as the validation cycle is broken. 50 years ago complimenting a woman would actually work to some degree if you were attractive, as you could follow it up by taking her out and creating a bond. Now you see guys trying to do the same thing on Facebook, there is no follow on from that behaviour. Its just endless giving and no reward.
[–]asd1100 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's not only validation, resources and power where also a big factor in a womans decision to take a man and prize him. Now she literally doesn't need hiim.
Women care about sex, but good sex, raunchy, erotic, lustfull, shamefull, primal sex. Not the sex-positive quirky mutual masturbation bullshit kids are doing these days. The former is a basic politically incorect urge, the later is a socially enforced shit test to take over the last bastions of masculine expresion.
[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
Women are not the prize, we are. They desperately want to be, and they have duped men into thinking females are prize worthy, but they aren't. Women's status goes up or down based on the man who commits to her, a mans value is based on his capabilities and prowess. Who a man fucks is largely irrelevant, she will not improve his status, but he will be more attractive to women if he has lots of them clamoring to suck his dick.
Once she hits 35 her value plummets, no matter what she does. They hate hearing that, and try to make everyone think they are still hot at 40. Your typical 45 year old bitch does not look like Jennifer Aniston, she looks like Berlin in May 1945.
[–]asd1100 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
Most men are far from prizes-
It was a methafor for how society percieves the genders.
Who a man fucks is largely irrelevant, she will not improve his status,
I very much disagree, a man's woman is a primal proof of value.
but he will be more attractive to women if he has lots of them clamoring to suck his dick.
i.e. status. It's a uncomfortable reality but we are graded by our succes in the sexual market it's a unaviodable truth despite people around here wanting to minimise the fact that we are just as subservient to the laws of the our biology as women are.
[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Lots of women wanting you makes you more attractive to females, but I have found that the quality of woman is irrelevant when it comes to preselection. However, men don't give a fuck about who you are fucking in the professional world, only what you're capable of.
Two distinct things, and one matters far more than the other. Your value to other men supercedes your value to women, and each valuation comes from very different sources. A mans status with other men is not dependent upon his wife, but a wife's status is entirely dependent upon her husband with other women.
Of course most men aren't anything special, 80/20 comes into play, and there is a reason more men are incel than women. They never built status nor value, let themselves go, and are entirely unattractive to women.
It seems English isn't your first language, or you're somewhat young, which is ok, but you're missing some fundamental points. Nobody who has been here and understands this minimizes our biology and how we are graded, that is the main reason we are here. Building yourself into a man who is attractive to women is the entire fucking point.
[–]asd1100 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
I hate idealising men.
Just a couple of days ago I grab a cup of cofee with some aquantances, and they are incapable of having a above average conversation. As soon as I get the waitress to play some funny business they roll around and we are talking post structualism.
From my experience men don't have a value structure, men don't grade other men. We like or dislike them. The only thing that makes us value other strangers is if other women value them.
I am 25 and english is not my first language.
I disagree with the red pill when it comes to pedestaling men, just because they aren't women, I disagree that biology sets us up to be honorable, loyal or virtuous. Most of my red pill ideas I took from my environment, so I don't idealise the noble male intrinsically(like a lot of red pill authors with MRA tendencies do).
[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Then we agree on quite a bit. I don't pedestalize men, but I do put myself up there, mostly because I earned it, but also because im a sociopathic manipulative bastard. What matters to men isn't always what matters to women, they are very different no matter what anyone says.
[–]asd1100 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
im a sociopathic manipulative bastard
welcome to the club, as a SMB you should understand that we have more in comon with women than pussy-boys. In fact on a spectrum of autonomy, awareness and self interest women would be right between red pillers and beta boys.
In practice I don't even bother with men unless they are alphas, because I know the purse holders will just follow the womens lead...(I got a free lunch of a girl in a food court today while her BF was buying her cake using this model)
[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Precisely. I am hated by white knights whe aren't smb members, partly because I fuck their girlfriends and chicks they orbit. They see me as a bad man, but won't see the same shit in every female alive.
[–]asd1100 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
That is where you should jump on the anti slut shaming band wagon and punish them instead of expecting them to reach your level of social awareness. Feminism is their chain and collar, it's a universal social complaince tool for betas, don't hesitate to use it.
[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
If I wanted to keep them, I would. As it is, the sluts are easy and I put less effort into them to get laid.
[–]asd11001 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
It's not about keeping them, it's about enjoying them.
[–]vengefully_yours1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I do enjoy them, catch and release. Some stay in the boat a little longer, but that's how it works.
[–]agrafes12 points13 points14 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Go read The Manipulated Man if you haven't already. Author breaks down what you're saying incredibly well, with much more insight into other spheres of life. <70pg pdf available online for free, no excuse not to read it.
[–]djvita3 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I was very happy to see this great book linked right here in the sidebar, look! A must read imo
[–]2Occams_Shiv5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I believe men and women don't OBJECTIVELY have different physical reproductive value but this is artificially created by social conditioning and false beliefs i.e. men believe they must have lower reproductive value because they can't have kids or women are supposedly less horny than men.
You are objectively wrong. grendalor's post below describes why you are wrong in clear generous detail. But in short, your post displays a lack of understanding of the concept of value, paired with a faith in the power/existence of unproven social constructs to to prop up your argument, which is a mess of MRA butthurt, wishful thinking, faulty reasoning, and poorly understood RedPill cliches.
[–]purgatoryguy[S] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
how can you prove social constructs exist? It's abstract and you can only come to conclusions based on your own experience and the experience of others.
Anyway your post just says I'm 'wrong' without arguing any of the points on their own merit... wow, ok. Great.
[–]Subtletorious2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Women have always been involved in the workforce. The differences occurred in expectations for married women but that was a time when running a household was itself a fulltime position.
[–]raiseurT 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
"Women are culturally less proactive and more passive than men i.e. victim mentality"
"Men as a group are getting screwed"
....
[–]purgatoryguy[S] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Just because feminists have blatant and unwarranted victim mentality doesn't mean men as a result are not culturally disadvantaged compared to women as a group. Women benefit from their groupthink feminism because it gives them strong opinions, which men don't have because of men are less mobilised and more individualistic.
It's an argument - you can modify it to make it more accurate but I believe it to be true.
[–]Endorsed ContributorrebuildingMyself2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Feminism is a society-wide shit test that we collectively failed. Their advice to men is 'be themselves and someday a woman thrown off the CC with two bastard will want to marry (and then eventually divorce-rape) them. Not one thing feminists pushed for benefits men in any way.
In other words, keep plowing the field like a good mule and clean up someone else's mess so the government doesn't have to.
[–]through_a_ways2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes, this is like sex dynamics 101
1900: Female reproductive value is countered by male status and provisioning value
2000: Female status and provisioning value is equal with men's, and men don't become universally more attractive, therefore men fall behind.
[–]BrunoOh3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago* (14 children) | Copy Link
Good read.
This is reinforced mainly by men because they find women physically attractive and don't understand that women also find men physically attractive.
To be fair, this is a tough one to internalize.
I believe men and women don't OBJECTIVELY have different physical reproductive value but this is artificially created by social conditioning and false beliefs i.e. men believe they must have lower reproductive value
Women DO have higher reproductive value. Biology 101. That's why it's the men that have to demonstrate value. Of course, if you're an alpha male you have comparable or higher value.
This is why feminism was mainly created by angry ugly/unattractive women as they were ignored by men and couldn't get a job/career to make up for their shortcomings.
A recurring theme. Take the slut walks for example. When I heard this was a thing I figured I'd bust a nut at the pictures, but guess what? 100% fatties and uglies. Clever, beautiful or interesting women don't need to slut around for male attention.
involuntary celibate women
Also a thing. Binge an hour on /r/foreveralonewomen, it's worth it.
[–]teamjkforawhile12 points13 points14 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I had never been to /r/foreveralonewomen. That's a little painful to read. But after reading some of the stories it also made me realize that for a woman to be foreveralone, she usually has to ugly, overweight, AND have a mental disorder or personality problem. For a man, just being socially awkward is all it takes to end up in the same situation.
[–]purgatoryguy[S] -4 points-3 points-2 points 11 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
Women do NOT have higher reproductive value than men.
This is a hangover from a pre-feminist society - just because women look good to you and get pregnant does not give them higher reproductive value. It's a misconception that disempowers men and makes them neglect their looks/health.
Women find men physically attractive (just as much as guys find girls physically attractive) and ultimately still need men to procreate.
[–]2Occams_Shiv6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
This is a hangover from a pre-feminist society - just because women look good to you and get pregnant does not give them higher reproductive value.
Aha, I found the core of your wrongness. You are conflating biologic value with social value, and then assuming that our biologic drives are likewise socially programmed, and capable of being re-programmed.
They aren't.
You are a most interesting creature. You claim to have swallowed the red pill, but you don't actually grasp it. At all. Perhaps you are holding it under your tongue? Maybe you can't metabolize it?
Maybe he hasn't read anything in the sidebar... Which is a nice way of saying he hasn't read the sidebar. Sounds like he is pissed that he has to work to get shit rather than being given things by virtue of existing.
[–]purgatoryguy[S] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
Yeah maybe you're right that I have a more demanding and entitled attitude than a lot of men out there - but that doesn't make my view less relevant or less true.
In a way with this I'm turning the tables with feminists and blaming them for a lot of male sociocultural problems today. I think that they are at THE VERY LEAST partly responsible for screw ups with men today and they still continue to bitch for more special treatment despite this.
Also men are more individualist than women so you have a variety of cultural movements with men i.e. MGTOW, MRA, PUA, PUAHate or whatever. Whereas women are more collective and it all falls under the umbrella of feminism. Larger groups are stronger than smaller groups.
Choose the medicine that suits you best anyway.
[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, you haven't read the sidebar material.
[–]teamjkforawhile3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
But they really do have a higher reproductive value. Let's say you can have 11 people total. You want to produce the maximum number of offspring in any given time period. What ratio of men to women do you choose? Then there's the whole issues of sex hormones. Testosterone is a big thing. Women certainly find men physically attractive, but their sex drive is not the same. Men have 10+ times the amount of testosterone on average than women. There's a lot of evidence that its psychological effect is as great as its physical effect.
[–]BrunoOh7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
just because women look good to you and get pregnant does not give them higher reproductive value
They have higher value EXACTLY because they get pregnant. One guy and ten women can pop ten babies a year. The reverse is not true. Women are the limiting factor in reproduction, so they are valuable and men are disposable.
[+]purgatoryguy[S] -8 points-7 points-6 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
That's another false belief. In those terms you mention Women only have higher reproductive value if society wants less genetic variety, many more babies and more single parent families.... Society does NOT want that.
Also just because 1 man can impregnate 10 women doesn't mean that is ever an option anyway as long as the demographic is more or less 50/50 male/female.
Therefore men have the same reproductive value as women.
It's a fallacy and a disempowering belief to think that women have higher reproductive value.
[–]BrunoOh6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Society does NOT want that.
It doesn't matter what society wants. Society also wants you to be as attracted to hambeasts and 40 year old hags as nubile 20 year olds. One billion years of evolution has put in place biological imperatives. That cannot be undone.
Sure it is. That's called spinning plates. They build a harem of 3 to 5 women. Down the line that means 2 to 4 incels are busy playing cod and watching hentai rather than wining and dining those girls.
In antiquity many men would also die in battle, leaving more women than men.
[–]purgatoryguy[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Spinning plates or the fact that men traditionally showed chivalry by going to war proves nothing about the intrinsic reproductive values of men being either more/less or equal to women.
Actually men's economic value is presently still much higher than women's because we are still physically stronger and still more skilled than them - cavemen went to hunt for food, while the women took care of the baby child. You can't have human life without this collaboration between a male and female. The woman could never do both and therefore men and women have the same reproductive value.
This is still true today and until women treat men as sexual/reproductive equals (i.e. by initiating/approaching men themselves as often as men do), until they start developing skills on par with men, they will NEVER get full, genuine respect as equals from men.
To be honest I think it's a fucking joke how women treat men with so much disrespect these days. Culturally men have collectively become White Knights and nice guys who have NO IDEA.
Some men are better at seeing women's bullshit for what it is though - funnily enough those are the ones who also get laid the most.
[–]BrunoOh2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It does. A woman would rather be an alpha's plate than a beta's girlfriend. Alpha men > women > other men.
Actually men's economic value is presently still much higher than women's
If it is, it's barely. Remember that we're all cuckolds because of Big Daddy Government. A woman doesn't need a man, she needs taxpayers.
they will NEVER get full, genuine respect as equals from men.
I don't respect a woman for being a man. I respect a woman for being a woman. We're not equals.
Yep. We, our fathers and their fathers are failing and have failed the feminism shittest.
[–]fhghg1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's a global economy. Men who don't realize this are doomed just as business who don't outsource/offshore like their competitors. We live in a bubble here in America.
[–]DMAredditer1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So what are you gonna do about it?
[–]cesarfd1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
At the end of the day, "The Rule" wins: women are the ones who control sex. They decide when it is going to happen.
There is no way to escape this no matter how alpha/successful a man becomes.
[–]CanadianMastermind0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, as a gay guy who mostly just lurks this subreddit out of, uh, curiosity, I thought I would reply and say that I agree with most of your post. Most of the gender theory posted on this subreddit is very much skewed toward a straight male's perspective. This is understandable to some degree (given the nature of the audience), but all too often these perspectives get passed off as "biotruths". Women aren't "objectively" more sexually attractive, for example. The sexual attraction a person feels is spurred on by a person's orientation and individual fetishes. It's not something independent of chemical reactions in our brains.
[–]throwz-awayz8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
There are times I really really wish I was gay..
[–]trpMilo2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Of course but most males brains are hardwired to feel a stronger urge to fuck every girl they can than a female feels. Females want to fuck the BEST male they can. So alpha guys > hot girls > average girls > average guys, simply because the alpha guys will willingly provide sex to many, many women
[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Insofar as it applies to hetero males, it is a biotruth. You my friend are a statistical outlier, the thin part of the bell curve. What applies to you won't often fit the majority, and vice versa. This isn't a personal attack, nor a claim of superiority, but a clarification that you are part of a minority group. What you're trying to say is similar to NAWALT, but it's about men and sexual attraction. Attraction is a widely diverse spectrum, but it is still a bell curve, and the majority of men on the planet are not gay.
Sometimes I wish I was, because fat girls are becoming the norm and at least I could fuck someone in shape if I loved the cock. Sadly, I have zero interest in men, but if I had some it would open up my range of potential partners considerably.
[–]CanadianMastermind1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Insofar as it applies to hetero males, it is a biotruth. You my friend are a statistical outlier, the thin part of the bell curve. What applies to you won't often fit the majority, and vice versa. This isn't a personal attack, nor a claim of superiority, but a clarification that you are part of a minority group.
But that isn't relevant to my point. My point was that much of the gender theory gets promoted as being objective. ie, that women are objectively more attractive than men and thus get more magical SMV points as a result. In reality, that's not really the case. "Straight guys and lesbians find women more attractive than men" cant be rationally extended to "women are objectively more attractive than men". They are different statements.
. "Straight guys and lesbians find women more attractive than men" cant be rationally extended to "women are objectively more attractive than men". They are different statements.
True, but that isn't what you said before. Thanks for clarification of your point.
[–]Killabot0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
At first I thought this was going to be about men falling behind in education. I was quite surprised but I found this post interesting and enjoyed it a lot.
[–]admirals_go_nuts0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Me too, but then it's deleted. But since it's beginner stuff I might know already. Any tldr?
[–]1beerthroway0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I would really love that link to the study on sexual success being correlated with career success. It would be extremely relevant to my life because I've had sex twice in the past two years mostly because I live in the middle of nowhere and have been focusing on my business and making money. I'd like to see the criteria used.
[–]clayjaxxx0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I believe in this so strongly. This is explains this month of my life but in the end I never know what to do. Kind of sucks honestly.
[–]CaesarDraugr 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Sounds a lot like the 24th undeniable truth of life.
[–]tallwheel0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You have a lot of things correct here, but on whether men and women are objectively equal in reproductive value you are dead wrong. Evolutionary biology can show you plenty of reasons why your thinking on this is most likely dead in the water.
You are absolutely correct that as a society we have overinflated women's sexual value while devaluing men's, however your conclusion that the difference is entirely cultural rather than biological is too absolute. Culture is created by biology.
Also, the casual MGTOW shaming was not cool. There are plenty of MGTOW here who have chosen their path based on careful introspection and an assessment of the societal situation through a redpill perspective.
[–]1003rp0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Dude, calling men the more oppressed gender is sinking to their level. Real men are never victims. Maybe some men are being oppressed, but those men are oppressed for. Reason. They are weak and deserve to be oppressed. Real men are still able to flourish and reap the benefits that are associated with being a man and that's what we are doing here at TRP. We are discussing how to become a real man who doesn't have to bitch about being oppressed because he grabs life by the balls, lifts, works on his game, and dates multiple women.
I never thought I would see a day TRP has a post about men being oppressed in western society. I don't want to be like those feminist cunts that cry about being oppressed all the time. Those women feel oppressed because they are shitting at being a woman. Women who excel at being women are rewarded and men who excel at being men reap similar benefits.
[–]iJJD0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
One of the best things you said was that men themselves act and believe as if they have lower reproductive value. From everything I have experienced, the reproductive drive is equal but men have been taught to devalue themselves in this field especially with things like "Girls can get laid whenever they want" being passed around their whole life. It's important to understand your value and not put things on a pedestal and I like your post
[–]Karol7541 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Saw this at the front page of reddit. See guys we are not rapists, mysoginists, or woman killers.
[–]watersign-4 points-3 points-2 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Men are falling behind because our school systems suck. If you see a white kid with an engineering degree and he works in a STEM field or has a good corporate job..it means hes fucking smart and he beat the odds. He beat the shitskins (asians, indians, etc) at their own game, but many are fucked.
Also..corporate America HATES employees.
As far as the trades go..most schools got rid of any vocational programs and even theyre pretty shitty. Theyre usually dumping the retards and muds there
[–]dj10show1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I never got this. Our vocational program included cool shit like car mechanics, fabrication, plumbing, etc. But they only ferried the special-ed, "ADD", or flat-out dumbasses there.
I would have loved to gotten some mechanical skill earlier on so I didn't have to teach it to myself in my 20s so I don't get raped by the commercial repair industry.
Not to mention, do you really want that idiot burnout fixing your car?
[–]watersign0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
to be fair..like mathematicians, good mechanics aren't made..they're born.
[–]dj10show1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Agreed. But how do you even get that opportunity to try your hand at mechanics if doing it means you submarine any chance of getting into college? Basically graduating from VoPro (as it was called in our school) was a death sentence sending you to the military or McDonalds if it didn't pan out.
[–]watersign0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
the kids who are interested in it from a young age manage to find things to tinker with- there are plenty of lawn mowers to be found curbside on trash day. it also has to do with how you were raised..the elites and upper middle class teach their kids about business and investing as well as emphasize math..the middle and lower classes teach their kids shit skills like how to fix things. talented, motivated individuals dont go into the trades because those jobs fucking suck. i come from a blue collar family and work in corp america now..if you're smart and motivated, tthere are lots of opportunities to advance in the business world..trades jobs are for losers, hate to say it but its true.
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