Why shouldn't women be hypergamous?

TreePlusTree · 2015-01-10T17:05:23+00:00

Something to note as well, women have less to lose, more now than ever, when leaving a relationship. I often compare a woman's mentality in dating to a man's mentality in working, in that they always have another lined up before they leave. But here the analogy breaks down.

If you offer me a job that pays pennies more than mine, I will not leave to work for you. Why? Is it honor? Fuck no, there's no fuckin honor in money children. I won't leave because there's too many unknowns in a new career, and the tiny raise is nowhere near enough to counterbalance the potential losses (what if my new boss hate white people or some shit, fuck that). But for women in relationships, it's a god damn golden age.

Women will at least battle themselves mentally over that chump change difference in a relationship. Do you know how many women have told me they wish they went with me instead of whoever the fuck back in like high school and shit? They don't know shit about me, and I don't give a shit about them, but the possibility of an upgrade, even the regret of missed opportunities years ago, will keep them up at night.

And that's not even mentioning the women that straight jump ship, or the ones who split their bet. Get a scoop of every flavor, because, you know, maybe I actually do prefer strawberry.

I'm fuckin tired, my bad on the wall of text :/

chivalry_augustus · 2015-01-10T19:19:28+00:00

The problem with hypergamy is that it encourages a ruthless short-term mating strategy in women that severely damages their long-term mating strategy, either in terms of their ability to bond or in their ability to be attracted to men who are ostensibly in their league. Is it healthy or good for a woman to be perenially (emotionally) single throughout her 20s, before settling for a loyal beta? I don't think it really works for either party. I think it's important to understand that the whole dating scene is twisted for both parties, albeit in different ways. There's a cruel, antagnostic, desperate meaninglessness to relations between the two sexes. I'm not saying that there hasn't always been an element of that, but we live in an apathetic world where even other people are just transient experiences that we move between. If you cannot give more value than that to others and, more importantly, to yourself, what hope is there? An element of selfishness is good, absolute selfishness is a bubble. I often feel like, where my interactions with other people and with women are concerned, we are but two bubbles colliding. We don't really overlap, we just rub against the surfaces. Then it repeats and repeats until the senselessness of it all consumes me. I don't like it. I accept it, though, because I must. Because there is no other version of reality. There is no superior version about to present itself. It just is.

Excuse the nonsense, it just kind of happened.

Andress1 · 2015-01-10T16:57:01+00:00

It's not that they shouldn't search for the best mate possible,the problem is that they flock to the top 20% attractive men,so it ends up in harems. Men are polygamous by nature(if you dont believe it,search about the coolidge effect)so they will never commit,thus making women and the bottom 80% of men unhappy(in theory).

The fact that women can have sex with men way above their league doesnt help either,because they think they can get a guy like that to commit.

This makes the dating/sex market the same as an economy with huge income gaps.

RedPillSafe · 2015-01-10T16:56:46+00:00

The answer is not "personal", but "big picture".

Hypergamy creates dramatic divisions of rich (Alpha) and poor (Beta). 20% / 80%.

Western civilization is no longer even able to maintain our birthrate.

Winning cultures always have some element of Patriarchy just so that enough people participate to keep it alive.

Hypergamy is a low efficiency system.

MGTOW is caused by Hypergamy.

jagrmeister721 · 2015-01-10T17:23:08+00:00

There is this misperception of hypergamy as though it meant "we only want the best man". The issues with modern hypergamy in my view are many.

First, it is a regression of female mate selection criteria for men. Instead of looking for men who will treat them well or know how to do real things, they look for social/physical dominance, tattoos, pre-selection, etc. - which may or may not make them happy in the long term. It is often a recipe for women being unhappy but also men not having someone who's mindset is right for LTR.

Second, hypergamy in a woman often means she quits on her man for frivolous social dynamics; ie: "losing" a social interaction, not holding frame on a meaningless shit test. Vine-swinging may have made sense when her life depended on it in the jungle, but today it just means hopping in a different guy's bed every few months for the ex's lack of perfection. The casual sex takes a toll on her ability to pair-bond and on her psyche.

Third, hypergamy often means a soullessness within women. Whereas when hypergamy was controlled, women would have a supportive and nurturing attitude towards men, now they are heartless at any male vulnerability. Any sign of it, they want to "trade up". This coldness wasn't an attribute of women for the longest time (at least during civilization and traditionalism); but when their primitive instinct is at the fore, it just means we're dealing with some heartless bitches.

Hypergamy is a boon for men with game; it means polygamy and being one of the few men to enjoy it. No reason to be angry at women per-se; things have changed and we have to adapt. But women weren't always this way because a traditionalist culture reined in their biology. Feminism changed that; but there are still women who abide by the old rules, so I see no problem with faulting the ones who have embraced the "new rules" to their detriment and others. I mean the family unit is dead going forward because of it- you have to at least fault them for that.

PowerLevelOver420 · 2015-01-10T18:35:49+00:00

Hypergamy works well for women on an individual scale but not at a societal level. It worked well in the past when large quantities of men died in wars, making it so there were more women than men in the population. This meant the top 20% of men could have a "harem" as such without disrupting society too much. If many of the bottom 80% of men nowadays opt out of marriage, children etc due to hypergamy, the birth rate will drop even more than it is currently. Birth rates falling to the lowest rates ever are a fine indicator that hypergamy doesn't work and will probably lead to a collapse in the economy/ society in the long term.

Algermas · 2015-01-10T16:50:49+00:00

They should; given hypergamy and it's acceptance in modern society, however, men shouldn't commit to women long term lest they suffer divorce rape.

grendalor · 2015-01-10T20:04:11+00:00

I would say that under the current conditions, the behavior we see in women represents the typically human response to the conditions they are in.

Hypergamy describes female patterns of desire, arousal and attraction. Innate stuff. However, the current conditions interplay with this in a very specific way -- those conditions being, among other things:

Economic independence from being reliant on any specific man (father, husband, etc.) financially;
Sexual mores which no longer shame pre-marital or extra-marital sex, and instead expect it;
Tools (reliable, cheap contraception, access to abortion) which take away consequences of sex;
Extended period of time from ~18 to ~30 where social expectations no longer require marriage or other trappings of "responsibility", freeing up women to "have fun" for an extended number of years.

Against that context, we see hypergamy playing out the way it does today -- because women don't need to choose men on any basis other than tingles for years and years, are no longer shamed or shunned for having lots of extra-marital sex, can have consequence-free sex (in terms of pregnancy), and are generally living apart from their parents for years and years before marrying -- yep, with all of that context, we see the kind of feral, "unleashed" hypergamy among women of that age range in particular.

From the woman's POV, it "makes sense", in the sense that given that this is the context in which they live, they are simply exercising their desire within the way that the context permits. In other words, unless a woman is looking to marry/LTR, why would she do anything other than satisfy her hypergamy in terms of attraction/arousal and so on? The relationships are "just for fun" at this stage, anyway, and "dependable and stable" isn't going to be the kind of guy who is picked for a "just for fun" relationship. Women know that they have tremendous power, sexually, in this age range, as well, and so they are using that power to maximize their "fun" during the "fun years of life" (i.e., before age ~30).

This is unikely to change, and seems durable because the context is unlikely to change, while the underlying hypergamy is, of course, wired into female attraction/arousal firmware. It may not be beneficial for society as a whole, of course, but that's really neither here nor there. So, as men, we note the context, understand the impact, and adapt so that we are the ones that are also "having fun" with women during this stage, and aren't relegated to being the guy who is "settled for" once women decide they have had enough "fun guys".

PlusGoody · 2015-01-10T20:52:48+00:00

Hypergamy works great when women are competent judges of status.

Hypergamy is like a surgeon's scalpel in the hands of well-bred, savvy women, who use it to make sure they end up with well-off, well-respected men who treat them like princesses and give their children every advantage.

They hypergamy of dumb and ill-brought up women, and women whose judgment has been numbed by privilege and indulgence, has ugly results. Unfortunately, the social checks and balances that kept "bad" hypergamy in leash have faded. Thus you get your 20-somethings riding the bad boy cock carousel and what they turn into -- 30-something single mothers desperate for a beta provider and happy to vote for government to be their back-up beta provider if necessary.

DaegobahDan · 2015-01-10T18:22:47+00:00

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loddfavne · 2015-01-10T16:49:08+00:00

First step is that the women chooses who gets to spend some quality time in her vag. Second step is the man bettering himself. Third step is that men chooses who to commit to. Forth step is game over for those women that hasn't landed commitment.

2015-01-10T22:07:41+00:00

Any anger at women being hypergamous is equitable to being angry at a lion for eating an antelope. Or being angry at a hyena for eating the rest of the antelope. Or being mad at the maggots for...

At the end of the day, TRP doesn't explain just how we act. It explains how we got to where we are, focusing on sexuality and the furthering of the species. Everything women "do" is for the betterment of the species.

You're right. How can you be mad at that?

Redpillc0re · 2015-01-11T01:35:40+00:00

Because we don't have any historic examples of a decent civilization where hypergamy wasn't suppressed?

NigTrannyMarxFemJew · 2015-01-10T18:12:46+00:00

If you're loading at the hypergamy game, go to a poor ass country with lots of beautiful women.

HalfPastTuna · 2015-01-10T19:54:15+00:00

I agree. but a lot of the time their criteria for strength and "alphaness" is so off base (or perhaps not relevant to modern society)

R4F1 · 2015-01-10T20:13:21+00:00

There's a huge difference between being hypergamous and being a branch-swinger. No one enters the world hoping to marry the ugliest, poorest, nastiest slob out there. Naturally women, like men, want the very best they can attain. This goes back to the days of arranged marriage as well, and it true when you're dating.

The problem becomes when we have serial-hypergamy or branch-swinging, as a result of society's gynocentrism which basically gives women a pussypass for something a man would get shredded apart over, or the fact that the government has changed/imposed laws that have disincentivized long-term commitment and actually incentivized branch-swinging thanks to child-support, divorce settlement, alimony and other forms of welfare that have rendered a man (patriarch) obsolete in a women's life.

Transmigratory · 2015-01-10T20:41:38+00:00

I think a lot of anger about this isn't that they are hypergamous, it is the fact that they are in denial about being that way. Annoying for a lot of men as women assume they're the best people to talk to regarding their gender.

You can see how proclaiming to know their gender best, whilst denying their hypergamy would irk a lot of people.

cock_pussy_up · 2015-01-10T21:07:54+00:00

Unchecked hypergamy creates losers in society. Some young loser men turn to violence. High status men may use violence to defend their positions from challengers. Some turn to porn, videogames, and other "nerdy" activities while withdrawing from society. "High status" players pump and dump women.

Finally, older women and women with baggage (i.e. knocked up and abandoned by high status man) have to downgrade and try to find lower status men, cause they can't get "top men" to stick around anymore. But the lower status men don't necessarily even want the leftovers anymore. So you have a proliferation of abandoned women. The low status men who have withdrawn from society and become accustomed to porn and videogames aren't necessarily going to come running to marry a lonely 45 year old single mother who is too unattractive to get casual relationships with high status men anymore.

Can individual men take advantage of the situation? They sure can. But people shouldn't ask why some men aren't interested in marriage or settling down with some used up woman under the current circumstances. Unchecked hypergamy provides an incentive for treating women like disposable toothbrushes. Top players and high status men can pump and dump fresh 18 yo meat, use women up, and then throw them away for the next 18 yo when they turn 22. Lower status men have an incentive to withdraw from women and regular relationships completely.

bobbatosakosanose · 2015-01-10T23:39:50+00:00

Birth control means that few high SMV men are dumb enough to get a woman waay below their league pregnant. Sure you have the Alpha "losers". The broke poor hoodrats who have tons of kids. But that behavior is not very common and limited to the bottom economic rung of society. So the whole "fucking upwards" effort is mostly biologically useless. These women hit the wall and have kids with some poor beta eventually. The insane child-support laws put high SMV men off having kids in many cases.

2nd all limits on Hppergamy's limitations (artificial and natural) have been removed. Tinder gives her access to all men in her nation. Facebook does the same. In the past there were limits on how many men a woman was able to interact with. 2nd, there is no longer a society that condemns such behavior and single mother hood. Being a parasite on society is seen as normal. 3rd women are given artificially high paying jobs due to govt mandated quotas etc. Most women end up working for the government and not the private sector. This makes her standards even higher. I think Teachers are very prominent on online dating sites.

So this is not hypergamy as it was in the past. This is hypergamy on steroids. All hypergamy's bad effects amplified but none of the biological benefit thanks to the pill.

abdada · 2015-01-10T16:36:18+00:00

Women have to be hypergamous: their value in nature is based on an ever declining procreation ability.

A woman, as we red pill types know, has an expiration date on her visibility in the sexual market. One day she's attracting guys 16-76, and the next day all she has are guys 46-76, and a little bit later it's only the 76 year olds.

So when a woman is still visible to men, she has to be with the most powerful man who will hopefully still lead her as her visibility disappears.

I dated a very young gal not that many years ago. She was very pretty but very socially conservative. Most of her friends hated me (being almost 20 years older than her), but of course they added me to Facebook. Now it's been 5 years or so, and I'm starting to see them complaining about where all the good guys have gone. She told me quietly that her friends are starting to become invisible to men.

So they wasted their visibility because of hypergamy on fakes and parlor trick magicians. But hypergamy drove them, and plenty of guys gained something out of it.

I love hypergamy, but I've always been an AMOG type.

Goupidan · 2015-01-10T19:31:30+00:00

Hell, as a man, why wouldn't I be hypergamous and commit to the best mate as well?

MuzakNinja · 2015-01-10T23:03:50+00:00

Why shouldn't women be hypergamous?

Because this makes them undesirable to the men with the highest SMV. It's a double-edged sword. Their hunt for the best genetics may just be what prevents them from obtaining them.

cooltrip · 2015-01-11T00:35:39+00:00

Female hypergamy is perfectly okay.

The wrong female behavior that shouldn't deserve any male friendship is the use by women of their hypergamous choice of superior men as a way of making the lesser men they don't choose feel bad (i.e, women use their choice of superior men as a "non-choice" or a "rejection" of lesser men). That is, the thing that should motivate rejection by men is the female "jealousy game".

However, women know that jealousy game doesn't motivate rejection by needy betas (by virtue of these betas' neediness, scarcity mentality and lack of success with women), this is why women play games such as jealousy game or shit tests.

These female games are win-win to women: if the betas leave women alone, then women win because they get rid of those betas they're disgusted by; if the betas continue to orbit those women, then women win too, because they have orbiting admirers.

There are less women than men, and women have a lesser sexual need than men (which somewhat is as well equivalent to women being less numerous than men), and so women enjoy all the advantages of this state of things.

the99percent1 · 2015-01-11T00:51:42+00:00

Because there is no end to their insatiable hypergamy..

If you noticed through-out history, civilisation has fought to control women hypergamy. Women simply do not have an ounce of honor in them. When you do not control them and let their nature run free, this is the effect we get..

AF/BB.

rcglinsk · 2015-01-11T00:56:02+00:00

Because they have children who they can't provide for. Those children become a burden on society in general.

HumanSockPuppet · 2015-01-10T18:57:23+00:00

"Should" just means "I prefer". For anyone trying to make a preferential or moralistic argument against hypergamy, know that the universe does give three shits what you prefer.

Women are the way the universe made them. You can cope, or you can tell yourself pretty lies and mire in your failure. Those are your only two options.

trpMilo · 2015-01-10T17:06:03+00:00

Yup, well said. There's a lot of "Look, she's doing The Thing!" here, but that's just angry new guys.

Even if society changes, hypergamy will not change. It's just as much a part of woman's nature as wanting to have sex with multiple beautiful women is a part of man's. It doesn't make either group evil. It makes them rational, given their goals.

Deaddpooll · 2015-01-10T18:20:43+00:00

If a girl is able to lock an alpha down and earn his commitment , all the power to her

But usually they get railed and bailed.

foomfoomfoom · 2015-01-10T20:20:57+00:00

You're absolutely right. Most of the comments have the tone of butt-hurt Disney idealists.

Antiteetotaler · 2015-01-11T00:52:22+00:00

The problem is that women deny hypergamy. The rationalization hamster demands that Women are Wonderful. A judicious application of the Just World Fallacy follows, and women rationalize that it's only men who are evil misogynists and women-haters with small dicks who fail. The truth is that female sexuality is just as opportunistic and amoral as male sexuality. This is why TRP is so profound and useful to guys.

SQQQ · 2015-01-10T23:36:45+00:00

women were, are and WILL be hypergamous. these nothing u can do about it. if theres an NBA player willing to pay $10M to bang ur wife, she will jump ship.

whats stopping them is very few could pull this off.

i mean... if ur the alpha, why would u pay for her? knowing that she may be pregnant cause shes been riding the CC for years.

SpikeTheDragQueen · 2015-01-11T00:31:44+00:00

Glad you managed to work through your hate and come to this conclusion. As it's been said, all the world's a stage, and all the people merely players.

SeekingAlpha · 2015-01-11T06:23:57+00:00

I've been here over two years and never once seen someone claim "women SHOULDN't be hypergamous" but I have seen plenty of acknowledgement that women ARE hypergamous and the sad consequences of men thinking otherwise.

rebuildingMyself · 2015-01-11T07:59:23+00:00

I have no issue with women slutting it up and fucking up their relationships, marriages, and bonding instincts. It's a free country (especially for women), after all. I'm just happy to be aware of women's true drives so that I can avoid being on the shit end of the stick.

BBB2000 · 2015-01-11T10:49:21+00:00

I think you can be angry at them for being emotional and short sighted. It's rather wide open in their face the dynamic at play, and the likelihood of what will happen to her by continuing to play the alpha hunting game. They know they will get used like a #ucking cum dumpster ahead of time. They know their smv and relationship value.

there is ALWAYS someone else out there better. Women will NEVER find the "best" if it is uncontrolled hypergamy......and I disagree it's hardwired required for women to have uncontrolled hypergamy

Guess what, some women control it....they do get in relationships in their 20's. Now, these women are still hypergamous, yes, but they are also realistic. They learn to be satisfied someone "close enough" ......it's really weird but some women seem to be able to lower their standards or rather be more content.

Granted most women will still go through a phase where they get dumped by a few guys, but they realize what is going on real quick, and they adjust.........they realize their sexual value vs their relationship value,.....it's really simple. You either be a stupid idiot and get what you deserve which is too be cum and cumped and treated like shit, or you adjust, and get the best you can and be satisfied

I hate it because there are Better than Average men Not Getting Laid. 80% isn't average...why do we call it average ? 50% should be average. That's the problem, it's skewed so much that we have a guy cooler than 79% of all dudes looked at as homogenized with the other 78 % in womens eyes.

cool , great guys aren't necessarily alpha. Some faggy beta personality weak minded unable to talk guys are considered alpha if they are hot. Social Status, Looks, pretty much is alpha. Here's the other misnomer I see posted here......Alpha parents can produce Beta kids ....look at how many siblings look so different as well as from their parents. it doesn't always work that way, like my mom and dad were alpha so i'm alpha....genetics is much more complicated...so if your dad left your mom young and your hot some genetics mostly luck.

BBB2000 · 2015-01-11T20:59:38+00:00

Is it really best for women to have 80 % of the male population become desperate men with no options ...the same men women will be regulated too later in life.

That's not healthy for anyone, if I were a woman I would not want a man because I was the only pussy he could get. I'd rather he liked me over some other competition he could have gotten.

But hypergamy creates that scenario where women will never find a man who chooses her for more than her pussy...see it's like which comes first, people say that's why hypergamy exists in the first place because women want the men with options.....but if it were more controlled the ratio's would not be as skewed and women could still have men who have options later in life

BBB2000 · 2015-01-11T21:23:38+00:00

Here's another reason hypergamy is bad. (let's get this out of the way first, It's not emotional or short sighted on womens part, they clearly know and understand the game and their relationship value)

Hypergamy is completely superficial.....short term gratification. The bain of existence. The same women who choose the cock carousel are the same women that have traits undesireable in all other parts of life.....We need to look into this correlation. By that I mean anything say example money ...always jealous of the friend with the new car, new promotion, fried who's hotter, etc. because anything that's BETTER in life, these hypergamous women are not satisfied.

Uncontrolled hypergamous women are evil caniving self centered savages, in relationships, in work, in any affair you deal with them.

Uncontrolled hypergamy behavior is the Ultimate FILTER for choosing who to date.

I mean if you really think about it, hypergamy is complete bullshit...sparks, tingles, butterflies, there's no foundation of anything behind any of these and certainly not logical. There is no emotional excuse or reason for women to keep doing the same thing. It is not as much nature as it is short sighted retardendness. It's just that like a rich friend you know who is never satisfied, he has tons of money but he keeps buying crack and strippers and high end cars for short term gratification. But he's just a wreck. He never invests in himself, and he never stops and realizes he's can be happy without crack or money.

Are you going to feel sorry for your rich friend for keep doing these short term gratification affairs ? The ones in which he sees a pattern and knows the outcome will repeat itself ?

I don't think you wold

Hypergamy is not an excuse. We need to stop acting like it is. These women get what they deserve.

EurasianAesthetics · 2015-01-10T23:40:07+00:00

I'm going to post in favor of women and their instincts for a second. I am a result of my mother getting with my attractive ALPHA father. It is because of him that I am the good looking man I am today. He treated her like shit and she was a single mother but you know what? It's helped me so so much as an adult just because of his genes. So I don't know... like, there's a reason women do it. I can personally see the reasons through my self and my situation.

colucci · 2015-01-11T00:13:50+00:00

Precisely. That's my main problem with TRP, blaming females for not being so and so, for being hypergamous and all that nonsense.

Look through the lens of a woman. A guy is evolutionary programmed to spread his seed far and wide, so he would cheat on you if he could (bullshit to those who say they wouldn't cheat for nothing on earth). Constantly looking for a better provider evens out the playing field as any provider can disappear in an instant. They are essentially 'spinning plates' too.

From what I see the people in this community are very bitter, but that's just how it is and there's nothing you can do about it.

Pfheonix · 2015-01-11T03:29:55+00:00

You use the phrase cock carousel as if the pussy parade you seek is of any more "honorable" or "loyal" value. You'll be as loyal as the women you deride. You see something you want, and have to ability to take, and you go for it, ignoring that "loyalty" you profess to have.

You think that women are different from us. Granted, there's a public perception of that, but that's much closer to propaganda that society is forcing on you than anything else. Sure, they may say something and mean something else, like wanting the guy who's there for them, but then they go from you, who is there for them, to another guy, who is there for them and also has something else you don't have.

scamper_22 · 2015-01-10T22:43:41+00:00

No one is saying women shouldn't be hypergamous.

There is nothing wrong with hypergamy... you want the best thing for yourself. Doesn't sound bad all.

The problem comes with the social realities around this.

Men/boys are not educated that this is what women do leading to a false perception of their hypergamous nature. This is in contrast to women/girls who are pretty much always taught men and out for sex.
Women themselves don't recognize their nature and this puts them in compromising positions.

At some point though, if you wish to have something of your own, like a family, you bypass your nature and commit to one person. Men stop having sex with lots of women and women stop looking for the next branch to swing to.

admirals_go_nuts · 2015-01-10T19:38:03+00:00

Questioning the nature of women is a little beta dude. But while it's understandable, the apparent lack of honor we man don't understand is the issue.

Why shouldn't women be hypergamous?

Comments

1 and #2 are not necessarily connected, although women will try. The law is attempted to combine both.

Title	Why shouldn't women be hypergamous?
Author	emptyform
Upvotes	87
Comments	155
Date	January 10, 2015 4:13 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2ryyyy/why_shouldnt_women_be_hypergamous/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/why-shouldnt-women-be-hypergamous.27817 https://theredarchive.com/post/27817