The "male entitlement" argument is bullshit.

Ultramegasaurus · 2014-05-26T06:46:08+00:00

Yes, I already stated that in another thread. The exact opposite is the case: Everyone expects men to work to get a woman. If a man even as much as implies he "deserves" a girlfriend, he's met with ridicule and scorn.

And actually, it's women who truly feel entitled to men without effort. And "good men" at that. They can rant about how there are no "real men" and how men don't give them enough attention. They are the ones who are approached and pursued. They are the one who need to be entertained and impressed by a potential suitor. They are the ones who seemingly are never at fault when a relationship, at any stage, ends. They are the ones who are always told they're fine the way they are and deserve only the best simply for being human females. Also, have you ever seen the reactions of rejected women, in the rare case they do the approaching? Most are shocked, and a good deal of them even become aggressive. It's also why female on male rape is not taken seriously: Men are, in the minds of most people, in no position to ever say no to (virtually) any woman.

Using this crazy guy who shot several people as proof that "men feel entitled to women" is absolute bullshit. I mean, if all men felt that way, wouldn't this guy be celebrated and his deeds declared just? No one does this. Hell, even 4chan, out of all places, generally thinks he's a worthless piece of shit. Even the Colorado or Sandy Hook shooters have vastly better reputations over there than this guy. If you cannot even gain the appreciation from such a "peculiar" group of people, it's a clear evidence that the very notion of a man feeling entitled to women is preposterous, to say the least, in the eyes of society.

2014-05-26T07:49:43+00:00

If men felt entitled to woman's bodies the multi million dollar PUA industry wherein men learn how to convince women that they are worthy enough to have sex with wouldn't exist.

The truth is men are taught that sex is something they earn not something they are entitled to.

2014-05-26T08:45:51+00:00

The best (or worst) part of this is that these are the same feminist women who feel entitled to special treatment by society simply because they're women.

They even come up with theories (patriarchy, rape culture, systemic misogyny,) and whole departments at universities (gender studies) to defend their entitlement complex.

"Men feel entitled to women's bodies," say the ones who feel entitled to be taken care of, attended to, subsidized, and provided for by men.

EuropaLeeg · 2014-05-26T03:33:27+00:00

Being unworthy. I think that goes on in nearly every man's mind. It definitely does since we see thousands of men working out everyday, getting that right body fat percentage to get the girl. Or guys wearing amazing clothes just to feel that they're worthy of getting the really attractive girl.

No one says anything though because we constantly want to better ourselves, to improve ourselves. Fuck these thoughts. fuck thinking that you're not good enough. Fuck media for perpetuating these standards.

SomeRandomme · 2014-05-26T13:44:27+00:00

There's a lot of feminist BS going around about Elliot Rodger, but most often I see this phrase being used: "men are taught that they are entitled to women"

Let's imagine this is true. Though the premise is dubious (at best), who teaches men that they are entitled to women? Mothers are the primary teachers of our children. Not only are most single-parent households lead by mothers, but I would argue that most two-parent households see the mother doing most of the interaction with children.

Then, when kids grow up to go to school, they likely see almost no male teachers or role models. The first time I got a male teacher was in high school, grade 10, and it seems like the only males who taught at the school were in the math department, where social issues weren't discussed at all.

How is it that a feminist can say that society teaches men they are entitled to women, if it is women teaching men throughout their lives?

2014-05-26T08:51:26+00:00

I just want to point out the difference between feeling entitled to something and being entitled to something. A person might feel entitled to any random desire's fulfillment, and it does not mean anything at all. A person who is entitled to that fulfillment has their desire fulfilled or otherwise has recourse for compensation through some formal process.

Example 1: A person declares that they feel entitled to a house on the moon. Too bad. They won't get it.

Example 2: A contractor finishes a job and is entitled to payment. If the contractor is not paid, then they may take legal action for compensation.

I'm pointing this out because there seems to be some confusion popping up in these discussions. This may be an instance where politicized language has distorted the meaning of a term to the point that it is more difficult to use. The word "entitle" and its derivatives have been so abused in media over the last several years that it almost seems to have no definition anymore.

That Isla Vista guy? He may have felt entitled to sex. But he wasn't, nor are any of us. The fact that he thought himself perfect and was enraged that women didn't throw themselves at him seems to imply that he felt like he had satisfied some set of conditions of entitlement (invented by him). Again, however he may have felt, nobody is entitled in that way.

edit: I should add, in regard to a certain feminist article that ruffled feathers yesterday, it seems that some people may be conflating the MRM with PUAs and other communities primarily populated by men solely because they are primarily populated by men. It may be good to emphasize a differentiation between all conflated communities.

dejour · 2014-05-26T03:39:19+00:00

did you read any of his manifesto? he said he was the last true gentlemen and the closest thing to a god. He was a narcisstic, the furthest thing from someone with low self esteem

Snowdens_BTC_Wallet · 2014-05-26T12:03:49+00:00

Feminism is about making men feel unworthy and codifying it with legislation.

MRSPArchiver · 2014-05-26T03:01:31+00:00

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2014-05-26T20:21:09+00:00

Who are you referring to? Who said all men feel entitled to women's bodies? Some people here have speculated that this sick individual felt entitled to women's bodies. Perhaps that theory is wrong. But nobody on the MRA side said all men feel they are entitled to women's bodies. WTF?

ExpendableOne · 2014-05-26T23:11:27+00:00

I think it's bullshit too. I cringe at every time I see some idiot try to dismiss and trivialize some pretty harmful and widespread social issues by twisting the nature of the problem so thoroughly to fit his/her own delusional narrative. Pointing out that there is a certain unfairness in being sexually/socially ostracised isn't the same thing feeling entitled to women's bodies. People who try to pass one off for the other are simply being ignorant and belligerent assholes.

If an asian man was to point out a certain social/sexual bias against asian men, that wouldn't be because he feels entitled to women's bodies. It would be because there's a lot of casual racism going around and it is affecting him personally. If someone was to point out the disparity in social/sexual value between men and women, that would also have nothing to do with 'entitlement'. If a guy is tired of being treated like shit and being told he is worthless(verbally and nonverbally) because he doesn't fit this ideal stereotype of masculinity, that is not because he is entitled to women's bodies. It is because there still some pretty old and sexist social standards and expectations that persist to this day.

If a women can be non-traditional, and still be deemed socially desirable, but men cannot. How is that not a gender issue? If a woman can have "beta" personality traits, stay true to herself, and still have society value her for who she is(socially and sexually), but men cannot. How is that not a social gender issue? If women never really get to experience this type of treatment(even at their worse) from men, how is that not a social gender issue? Truth is, in a perfectly egalitarian world, men would be granted the same sexual and romantic opportunities that women are(with society valuing male sexuality the same way they value female sexuality) and men wouldn't be shamed, belittled and further sexually devalued because they are inexperienced/virgins either.

Men who complain about being so thoroughly devalued as a human being and treated in a way that is far from humane are not just "bitter losers who are entitled to women's bodies". They have every right to feel as though their lives and their sexuality have worth(as much as the next guy) and to be treated in a fair/humane way despite their perceived social/sexual market value. There are still problems with the way men are sexually devalued and objectified, and there are problems with the way a lot of women still approach heterosexual relationships as well(Hypergamy, outdated gender roles, passive vs active, double-standards, etc). To equate that to entitlement, misogyny or a hatred of women is not only intellectually dishonest and morally/emotionally bankrupt but also serves to reinforce and escalate those social problems instead of addressing them.

QuestionsFromApple · 2014-05-26T06:57:39+00:00

If men felt "entitled to women's bodies", then all men would be having sex at will with any women of their choosing. That's clearly not the case.

Feeling entitled is not the same as being entitled. Because they are not in actuality entitled to women's bodies, there is no reason to find evidence of entitlement in reality.

Not being able to do something isn't remotely close to not wanting to do it.

As for if men were entitled to women's bodies (and this was backed up by law and societal norms) I'm confident they in fact would have sex with any and all women of their choosing and I'm a little suspicious historical findings in societies where these circumstances were met would back up this suspicion.

But, not a historian. Not an r/MRA user or a radfem. Just wound up here though the Elliot Rodgers case. So fact checking... ain't nobody got time for that behind this laptop.

Actually most men today experience a strong lack of self esteem, making themselves feel UNWORTHY of sex and relationships with beautiful women.

Source? I know a lot of men, and although it's not like I have a cup of tea leaves or a magic crystal ball that tells me how they feel about themselves at any and all given moments, I'm confident you don't either. Probably r/wicca's thing. That said, in my life experience I would be completely confident that not all, not most, or even many men have severe confidence issues that make them feel unworthy of women. I know a variety of guys and from rude gestures to slander to just being manipulative and nasty do not make any indication of feeling inferior to or not worthy of women and girls. Just my two cents.

But you know, this is an MRA space so downvotes expected.

Title	The "male entitlement" argument is bullshit.
Author	WomenAreAlwaysRigh
Upvotes	60
Comments	82
Date	May 26, 2014 3:01 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/26hqu0/the_male_entitlement_argument_is_bullshit/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/the-male-entitlement-argument-is-bullshit.1000279 https://theredarchive.com/post/1000279

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