Are we really that bad?

robesta · 2014-02-25T23:05:34+00:00

This is what I just said on the Purple Pill Debate and I think it's relevant here:

So here's the thing, TRP makes conclusions to create an individual worldview that maximizes utility for OURSELVES, not anyone else. IE we're not advocating that marriage be outlawed, we just think it's a bad idea for a man. There's no force involved. These are freely made decisions made at an individual level.

>Buy that girl flowers? Fuck no.

>Buy her a drink? Fuck no.

>Buy her a ring? HELL NO.

>There is no need to convince anyone else through studies. There's no legislative agenda. Do we like studies? Sure. But the only people affected are the individuals adhering to TRP and those who freely CHOOSE to associate with them.

>This is why TBP almost seems like a creepy stalker sub to me. Men are getting together freely associating about their own lives and women are literally hanging on to their every word trying to demonize us. It's a weird dynamic to say the least.

sting129 · 2014-02-25T23:20:05+00:00

You know what's really funny? This is the only "relationship/game" theory that puts the onus on oneself, and not the "target". Go to the gym, get in great shape, be confident in yourself, do things for you and you alone, be awesome. Do that, and your efforts with women will bear fruit.

This is one of the best self-help subreddits there is. But no, it's just a bunch of swinging dicks high-fiving each other about SLUTS. /s

Demonspawn · 2014-02-25T23:16:30+00:00

Why such hate?

Because taking responsibility for yourself is the most frightening thing possible for the majority of people in our society. If you explain to them that they failed because of their own failures rather than because of "fate" or something else out of their control, they freak out and fight against it.

FortunateBum · 2014-02-25T23:03:40+00:00

A really good question, that I truly can't answer, is why does this sub create such a negative response? I'm dumbfounded by this. I honestly don't understand why some women react poorly to PUA, game, and the seduction community either. I just don't understand their thinking.

Women write books and articles about how to get boyfriends, please boyfriends, marry well, find the man of your dreams, etc. and men don't generally get enraged and call these writers man-hating hags. So what gives?

2014-02-26T01:02:53+00:00

My favorite part of this sub is that if you're even slightly whiny someone will call you out on it.

anotherthrowawaybiff · 2014-02-26T01:43:44+00:00

It's an interesting dichotomy. I've done this sometimes in both AskMen and AskWomen - Give a totally TRP answer to something without mentioning TRP. Upvotes. Give same advice, credited to TRP - Downvote oblivion.

I've only been reading here for maybe 5-6 months, admittedly, but I've never once seen pro-rape posts. It's true that some of the guys (a minority, IMO) are angry as hell at women, but they usually have justification for how they feel and this is (gasp) a safe space for men to talk honestly to each other, without having the Overlords of Political Correctness hanging over and monitoring our every comment.

Most of the guys I've talked to here seem like good guys. They also seem like they are effective guys, or if not, they're taking the responsibility upon themselves to try to be, or to learn to be. Political correctness has very little to do with basic decency or moral character. Consider this - Your car breaks down in a strange city while traveling. Which sub do you think would be more likely to get help to you, TRP, SRS, or TBP?

GayLubeOil · 2014-02-26T02:51:07+00:00

What you need to understand is that the hens over at feminism, SRS and bluepill are always on the lookout for something to be offended over. Thell take your posts out of context, butcher any analogies you make and generally confuse themselves until they hate you. Iv tried to engage logically with the other side on multiple occasions. They dont want ti understand you, they want to hate you.

Lipophobicity · 2014-02-25T23:24:56+00:00

I think some stuff gets taken too far, with 2 things standing out the most:

1) Return of Kings - While not always wrong, this is clickbait designed for attention, and is our side's equivalent of Jezebel. Recognize it as such

2)Last Minute Resistance - This seems to be fringe and rarely brought up, but this really does sound rapey as fuck. Even if you agree with the advice given, we are in the era of college rape tribunals, and other nonsense so it is still a bad idea.

Those points aside, we are nothing like the SRS/whiteknights say, I've seen feminists make accusations of racism, pedophilia, etc without posting any links to corroborate. Essentially just saying the worst things they can think of to badmouth us. I've also been seeing them accuse anyone arguing almost anything that they disapprove of as redpill("sure smells like redpill in here"). Considering the fact that subs go up by about 150 a day, their false advertising isn't working

legedu · 2014-02-25T23:51:41+00:00

Are we really that bad?

Who cares

vengefully_yours · 2014-02-26T02:00:46+00:00

I really dont give two shits or a rat fuck about what SRS or anyone else thinks. What matters to me is my life and how I live it, what I get to enjoy, and what I do with my time here. I fuck women half my age because I can, and because women my age look like road maps wrapped around a side of beef with enough baggage to keep a team of belhops busy for decades.

PaulRivers10 · 2014-02-26T01:16:15+00:00

There's a list of reasons why The Red Pill is hated upon so much.

Feminist, like any political group, hate on any other group that challenges their power. Liberal groups hate on conservatives, conservative groups hate on liberals, and feminist hate on anything that takes away their fake "this is how women are" image, or challenges their belief that their needs are important while mens are not.

The Red Pill pisses off feminists like universal health care pisses off conservatives, or Fox News pisses off liberals. Whether you think they're right or wrong is not relevant to my point - it challenges their entire value and belief system, and undermines their power.

It challenges the "women are delicate angels" view. This is related to #1, but it's a viewpoint that's common along a women who have nothing to do with feminism, and is true of both conseratives and liberals.
It's socially often looked down on and shamed to want to be "better with women". Stupid, yes. But it is how it is. And that's what the red pill is a lot about.
Feminism - like any political group - has spent a lot of time shaping language for their own ends. Language that is used everywhere, in mainstream media, etc.

Let's say I told you that this last weekend I was visiting a girl. She was sitting on my bed. I started touching her. She started resisting me. I grabbed her hands and held them - and took pictures of her with me holding her (though fully clothed in this case). What's your gut response before the red pill? Well - it's that I'm a frieking creepy weirdo asshat. That's the image that feminism has created.

In reality, if there was a video of what I was doing - pretty much no one would have a problem with it. Other cues - her smiling, her laughing, her pulling away then coming back, etc etc. But people have gotten conditioned to seeing any description of aggressiveness, masculinity, or sexuality as though it's something happening in the first 5 minutes of an episode of Law And Order where you know that something bad is about to happen.

So when they read these, they imagine the worst possible scenario those words could depict.

The Red Pill is fairly - I'm not sure what the word is - amoral? It really peels away the happy truths we tell ourselves about certain things. It's a little sociopathic in constantly trying to describe how things actually work, rather than how they're supposed to work.
The Red Pill is unbalanced - this is my opinion, but I frankly don't think it would be healthy if the only things you knew about women were from The Red Pill. TRP is about peeling away the veneer - but it's kinda designed for people who were living with the veneer to begin with.

For someone who's never had unrealistic expecations about how deeply women would love you, telling them "women will never love you like you want them to" just sounds like you're being an ass. It only makes sense to people who started off with unrealistic expectations.

Expressing anger at the hypergamous nature of women makes sense to someone who grew up with the overly idealistic illusion. For someone who doesn't have that, it just sounds like you're being an ass.

Etc.

I don't know, I wrote this whole thing, then I realized - I've almost never read anything accurate about The Red Pill when people are bitching about it. Usually it's just stupid stereotypes. So...hmm.

Kaelteth · 2014-02-26T00:48:12+00:00

I've newly swallowed TRP.

I originally thought it was a pile of misogynistic bullshit the first few times I saw TRP theory myself...a way to play women.

Now...I see it for what it is...being fucking men, not pussy slaves.

watersign · 2014-02-26T00:31:26+00:00

reddit and most of its user claim to be liberal but are very, very intolerant (like most liberals) Smug, narrow minded and idealistic to the point of insanity.

2014-02-25T23:30:57+00:00

If you are not mentally prepared for it, reality seems quite scary.

HumanSockPuppet · 2014-02-26T01:25:18+00:00

People who can't handle the truth are destined to be miserable. People who embrace it are destined to be daemonized.

I'd rather be a happy daemon than a miserable lamb.

ilike2partyhowaboutu · 2014-02-25T23:27:36+00:00

People hate the truth.

2014-02-26T00:28:01+00:00

TRP is constrained by being the underdog. its not like there isn't any misogyny here, just that its not that big of a deal.

It would be kinda funny to have a .. you know all boys tree fort for grown men and have some quality control that keeps the n-beards out, but mostly funny.

as for why people think that way? well such a subreddit doesn't exist. back in the day MRAS as sheepish as they were were put in the role of the "other side" now suddenly they are becoming more mainstream and feminists pretend to care about mens issues in their little girl forts of academia and magazines. (well wayy back in the day nobody took feminists/marxists for what they are anyway and they had the constraint of the underdog)

suppose bigger misogynists (with some credibility) would pop up (think returnofkings/roosh and add a bit) on reddit suddenly TRP would be centrist.

what would be their mode of operation? I don't know, humor, sticking it up to sluts, fat shaming weeks? glorifying the bachelor lifestyle and not making any excuses of non coercion about it? who knows.

2014-02-26T00:55:25+00:00

There was a radishmag article posted about TRP a few weeks ago. I think this speaks volumes about why, even if its satire/sarcasim.

They’re talking, these “Red Pillers,” speaking quite freely, about — oh, whatever pops into their heads! Unlicensed advice, unofficial opinions, roaming wild, without a single academic department or any other kind of regulatory agency in sight. Would it kill them, really, to run it by a feminist professor first? Oh, well, apparently you don’t need a master’s degree in critical gender theory to understand men and women anymore. I guess even a non-Marxist should be allowed to publicly say things about human nature! Hate-facts? Sure, why not, just throw them in — as if politically incorrect reality could ever trump social justice! What a sad, strange world we live in.

The ideas of feminisim worked when the world, men and women, behaved like the characters on Mad Men. Since then men have had their masculinity brow beaten from them, but feminism still wants to act like we are all raised to be a Don Draper.

2014-02-26T02:18:40+00:00

The religious immediately disregard criticism, calling it blasphemy, and they ridicule the blasphemer. The same holds true for feminism, those who hold opposing views are blasphemers and they're ridiculed for it.

MahlerNinth · 2014-02-26T02:44:57+00:00

It would be really easy for TRP to turn into a circlejerk of people who just call everything beta and relentlessly rant about/make fun of women.

Occasionally it might veer that way if we have a bunch of MRAs or other angry men who suddenly come across this via AskReddit or something else, but the moderation and a lot of the veteran posters here do a good job keeping this on topic. TRP's definitely far less circlejerk-y, more open minded and less clique-y than most subreddits here.

infernalsatan · 2014-02-26T04:21:42+00:00

I have seen some extremists did something questionable, then claiming it was TRP who taught him to do that.

Just like believers who use religion to defend their actions

2014-02-26T04:50:34+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Cheeky-Cunt · 2014-02-26T04:57:13+00:00

Just realized this subreddit has more followers than r/feminism :O

gekkozorz · 2014-02-25T23:22:36+00:00

understand where you are coming from but looking through other threads here, there really seem to be some very very bitter redpillers around here ...

2014-02-25T23:19:32+00:00

I personally think it's a lot of young males that haven't experienced what it's like to be burned of a woman so stand up for them being the nice guys.

NikolaTeslaMGTOW · 2014-02-25T23:39:20+00:00

Who gives a fuck what women, feminists, or SRS (liberals right? social justice warriors and the like?) thinks. For that matter who gives a fuck what anyone thinks. Take what is useful, discard what is not.

You wanna have your PC bullshit and lies and live in a fantasy land go the fuck ahead feminazis. I'd rather have the pain of reality and reap the rewards, I guess thats what being a man is and why you will do anything you can to stop us.

HalfysReddit · 2014-02-26T00:48:17+00:00

This subreddit is vilified for two reasons:

The truth that is spoken here is a very hard truth to accept. It's the adult equivalent of finding out that Santa isn't real.
The truth that is spoken here is spoken alongside a lot of misogynistic bullshit. Let's admit it - some dudes are on this sub just hating on women because they're bitter, and they get upvoted by fellow bitter men.

The thing that I think is funniest is that while I agree there's a lot of bullshit on here, a lot of people when they hear about me posting on RedPill immediately think that I'm some sort of TRP stereotype and that they have license to dismiss any other arguments I make. Then I mention that I was once banned here (all in the past TRP, we're on good terms now) and they have nothing to say on the subject. I know I'm not the only dude on here who is able to pick up the nuggets of wisdom that are provided while sifting right past the bullshit, and most people just can't handle that. They don't want to acknowledge the truth that can be found here, so they define everything that is said by the lowest common denominator - which let's face it, in any public forum, the lowest common denominator is gonna be pretty damn low. And this sub is no exception.

Is this sub bad? At times yea, it can be pretty downright bigoted and/or just plain stupid. But so is every other public forum. And honestly, I have never seen a forum so quick to jump on any members bullshit, which is a great thing. Hell, I'm probably wrong about more than one thing in this post alone, and I expect other members of the community will comment about the ways in which they disagree.

AveofSpades · 2014-02-26T00:00:21+00:00

Who gives a fuck what the rest of reddit thinks? Feeble minds find fault with something they don't comprehend.

Robot9005 · 2014-02-26T01:16:00+00:00

We aren't bad, if plato has taught me anything GOOD and EVIL is opinionated, what can be seen a good in my eyes is easily a evil in another person. At the end of the day whose opinion matters more, yours or theirs.

bigyellowtwinki · 2014-02-26T02:16:52+00:00

If I spend too much time online I start to think of some people as bad. It's sort of like if you spend all your free-time on youtube looking at conspiracy videos you start to think the world is like that. Whenever I find myself acquiring this attitude I get offline and into the real world. Betas (men and women) live largely uninteresting lives and spend an inordinate amount of time in fantasy land, which is frankly what the internet can become.

You know how sometimes when you listen to someone's story and they hype it up and dramatize it? That's how the internet is, except you don't have the chance to have been there with that person and know it's all bullshit.

2014-02-26T03:08:01+00:00

We have a lot of guys that need to spend some more time on the sidebar that sub up thinking this is the He-Man Woman Hater's Club. They get the impression mostly because they are at their ropes ends but still have that super PC sensibility they've been conditioned to vet all their thoughts by that and ignorant people that decry this sub as all the horrible things imaginable being shat onto your face by the bogey man as he calls every woman you've ever loved a whore.

TL;DR People are catching bad vibes from the folks nay saying us and that is attracting folks with bad vibes here.

A separate note to any newcomers reading this, we aren't the opposite of feminism, too often do I read comments describing flaws with feminism and the very next thing is the exact same thing coming out of their mouths with proper nouns switched or some other variation of hypocrisy. When in doubt, sidebar.

2014-02-26T03:46:26+00:00

No, I don't think we're bad people. I also don't think we're bitter or jaded (well, maybe a little). We've just discovered that our old view of the world is not the actual reality that we live in. When I first realized that, I was pissed off. I fell into depression. The anger and hurt has subsided and I've accepted this reality.

2014-02-26T05:06:09+00:00

Isn't that what they are..?

Also, no, we're awesome, don't listen to other people.

positiveeagle · 2014-02-26T05:09:17+00:00

Bluepiller: TRP IS SO HORRIBUL!

Innocent Guy Looking For Help: So... how do I attract women?

Bluepiller: TRP is all bullshit! TRP IS SO HORRIBUL!

That is TBP in a nutshell.

There's only so much bullshit you can sell a guy until he says, "Fuck This" and tries something different.

TRP is doing men AND women a service, saving guys that would have just flew off the handle bars shooting up movie theaters, going full on herbavore, or leaving the country to go find 3rd world poon tang.

TRP has some bad eggs, but one of the most important things is that its letting guys actually vent their frustrations, and its a place where guys actually get each other. Bottling shit up is much much worse. You know that guy that walks around with his head slumped and is gritting his teeth down to his gums? Do you really want to tell him, you just need to be nice? Where is the help for that guy?

You hear shit all the time about "HOW HARD IT IS TO BE A MODERN WOMEN", but there's little to nothing about how hard it is to be a man. There's no "The View" for men. If we had one, it would be called sexist and misogynistic. The media couldn't give 2 fucks about men, its only when men aren't doing what they are "SUPPOSE TO DO" that there's a problem.

TRP is one of the few places that actually tries to help other men. Rather than saying, "Shut the fuck up bitch and pick yourself up by your bootstraps" TRP says "this is how it works, this is how you can be more of a man."

To everyone else a man is mostly a worker and a means to supply the "greater of two consumers."

2014-02-26T05:12:48+00:00

Late to this thread, but I'll give it a shot. I've often witnessed to sides in this subreddit. Much of the discourse is interesting, and helpful, yet much of the time I think things are taken in the wrong direction. For example, much of the time I see this false dichotomy between "being a nice guy" and "being a pussy that gets used." In many instances I think being kinda douchey is promoted because it can sometimes be effective in the pursuit of sexual relationships. This is because there are certain traits and behaviors associated with assholes that are helpful, but there is also for people who are considered nice. Most of my female friends consider me a nice guy. I've had sex with most of them. Outside of jest, I generally never talk about them in the manner that is often used here, which I often find to have an austere undertone. I often see women generalized here in such a way that portrays them as imbecilic gold-digging whores just looking to jump on the dick that will give them the best leg-up in life. Anyone who has sisters, mothers, or female friends who don't fall into a negatively portrayed schema could easily get offended when reading or hearing such terse caricatures.

At the same time, I realize there are many men in this subreddit that have experienced heartache, and are looking for ways to mitigate that in their pursuit of love or sex or whatever, so I tend to be forgiving of many of the emotional fallacies used to justify some ideas. Lashing out is indicative of hurt and frustration. Ultimately though, the lingua franca of this subreddit often and consistently dehumanizes women from what I've seen, and I submit, this is neither the most effective way to alter yourself to become a sex symbol incarnate or find a meaningful relationship with an amazing woman.

In my experience, I usually treat women like adults. I'm generally direct and honest with them about how I feel and what I want. If I like their personalities, I generally become friends with them and treat them the way I'd treat any friend. I usually end up sleeping with my female friends at some point, but rarely at the expense of our friendship. I value you them as human beings and individuals, and rarely chalk up their behavior as something they did simply because they are female. It's true I see a great deal of stories in here about women doing shitty things to men, and abusing their status in his mind. But their are shitty people in the world. I've met them, and I frequently weed them out of my life.

TL;DR: In my opinion, this subreddit is the coalescence of some great advice and some hurt individuals venting their frustration, and when that happens much of it comes across as negative towards outsiders.

bh3244 · 2014-02-26T05:26:44+00:00

i sleep very soundly at night.

entiat_blues · 2014-02-26T06:13:07+00:00

there's an ugly underside to the community that's based on little else than bashing women based on pseudoscientific ramblings from 19th century "psychologists." sometimes we get what we deserve.

ThePragmatist42 · 2014-02-26T01:17:46+00:00

Groups and people don't typically have to announce how awesome and good they are when they are truly awesome and good.. Just saying.

The_bad_seed · 2014-02-26T01:38:50+00:00

just popped into /r/feminism god dang the delusion that goes on in there wheeew!

SmokeU · 2014-02-26T01:56:11+00:00

Not human sex pockets. How barbaric. They are called holes.

2014-02-25T23:41:42+00:00

Groups are always judged by their most vocal minority, and TRP ideals, on the surface, do attract a number of truly misogynistic assholes.

So, no, I don't think the majority of us are "that bad". I just shrug off the comments I see elsewhere, knowing that they're based on ignorance and hearsay.

goodbytes95 · 2014-02-26T01:40:50+00:00

The top comments should answer your question. I lurk here because most of the posts crack me up. I think the reason other threads refer to you guys in this way is because you all seem like angry misogynists. Most men have been hurt and perplexed by women and how they behave, and that's normal. What's not normal is making women out to be evil, vindictive, greedy bitches, using numbers to assign their value, grouping men into alphas and betas, and other stuff that is equal parts hilarious and sad.

carolinadreams · 2014-02-26T00:03:02+00:00

A large part of being the person you want to be, is deciding for yourself what is signal and what is noise. That applies in the world and in this forum itself.

TheD_ · 2014-02-26T00:24:46+00:00

Well, TRP does make Hitler look like Mother Teressa.

Title	Are we really that bad?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	154
Comments	146
Date	February 25, 2014 10:59 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1yxo7a/are_we_really_that_bad/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/are-we-really-that-bad.11881 https://theredarchive.com/post/11881

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