Debunking the alpha/beta dichotomy

PutsWomenOnPedestal · 2023-01-23T13:15:13+00:00

Think of the most influential business, military and civilian leaders in history. How many of those look or act like a stereotypical “alpha” ?

Wavycapmurphy · 2023-01-23T10:50:19+00:00

If somebody uses this un ironically, I'd just switch off

bdcarlitosway · 2023-01-23T15:42:29+00:00

The fact that the term “Alpha Male” isn’t even used in any serious psychology literature outside of primatology, says a lot about it’s credibility and application on humans.

VigilanteJusticia · 2023-01-23T19:04:40+00:00

You can point to the fact that the same scientist who popularized the term came out against his own research when he couldn’t replicate it with wolves in the wild because his previous work was based on wolves in captivity. He even went as far as founding the International Wolf Center and they’ve even stopped using the terms.

Here’s a passage from his website:

The concept of the alpha wolf is well ingrained in the popular wolf literature, at least partly because of my book “The Wolf: Ecology and Behavior of an Endangered Species,” written in 1968, published in 1970, republished in paperback in 1981, and currently still in print, despite my numerous pleas to the publisher to stop publishing it. Although most of the book’s info is still accurate, much is outdated. We have learned more about wolves in the last 40 years than in all of previous history.

One of the outdated pieces of information is the concept of the alpha wolf. “Alpha” implies competing with others and becoming top dog by winning a contest or battle. However, most wolves who lead packs achieved their position simply by mating and producing pups, which then became their pack. In other words they are merely breeders, or parents, and that’s all we call them today, the “breeding male,” “breeding female,” or “male parent,” “female parent,” or the “adult male” or “adult female.” In the rare packs that include more than one breeding animal, the “dominant breeder” can be called that, and any breeding daughter can be called a “subordinate breeder.”

https://wolf.org/headlines/44265/

S1eeper · 2023-01-23T08:42:18+00:00

It's not too complicated. Any man who goes around talking about or even thinking about alpha/beta/sigma/omega/etc is automatically a beta, even if he checks some boxes for alpha or whatever the top dog of the day is (it keeps changing). Real alphas are not so self-involved. They never even think about this stuff, rather they're instead consumed with working day and night on changing the world, inventing the future, and having a real impact beyond their own little lives. For example, do you think Steve Jobs or Bill Gates ever thought for one single second of their lives what they needed to do to be more alpha? No lol. They were spending all their bandwidth thinking about how to usher humanity into the computer age. Thus there's no real dichotomy between alpha and beta, because they're all betas, even the alphas.

SweelFor- · 2023-01-23T16:16:55+00:00

Before something is disproved, it needs to be proven.

I can make up anything and ask you to debunk it. There's nothing to debunk because this is a made up concept.

creamerfam5 · 2023-01-23T15:56:32+00:00

Did you check out the pinned "start here" post? A couple of links in there:

https://www.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/ho4cvx/red\_pill\_detox\_first\_aid\_kit\_start\_here/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3

Newbie1955 · 2023-01-23T23:59:52+00:00

My book does :) It's called Red Pill Ideology: Lifting the Shiny Wrapping from the Manosphere by Cynthia Payne and is listed in the pinned "detox" thread at the top of this subreddit. You can read a short excerpt on my website, which happens to discuss this very topic.

Dr_Lovemuchmore · 2023-01-23T10:32:54+00:00

Common sense and using your brain

The coolest people I ever met never paid attention to this shit

Crisis007 · 2023-01-23T11:22:36+00:00

You have women who like more masculine men and those who like more feminin men its not that hard.

Just open your eyes in public and you see that the "alpha" kind of men are usually the ones beeing single.

Naus1987 · 2023-01-23T15:16:07+00:00

I feel like it's such a complex topic to ever really boil down into a paragraph or two.

It's never been a question that some people are more oriented towards leadership roles and some are more oriented towards following. People are just different, and some live life differently.

What's really important is finding a partner who meshes with whatever personality type you do have.

Though as it's no surprise, since leadership people tend to be more aggressive, they often find more success. HOWEVER, that's not to say that exceptionally good followers can't be successful either.

Any good leader knows how to scout out quality talent. If you're a high quality asset, people will scoop you up, regardless if you're alpha or beta.

Recently, I've been feeling that the biggest problem with modern dating is that everyone is shooting above their qualities, and the lower 70% (of men and women) are just getting destroyed in the dating market.

Sadly, I'm not some ancient vampire to have experienced how life was 100 or 200 years ago. Did the bottom 70% struggle back then too?

---------

My mom used to always give me this silly advice. Don't worry about finding the perfect girl, instead focus on becoming the right kind of man. And that's how I've always tried to play dating.

Don't worry about shooting for someone out of your league. Instead focus on what that person wants, and then see if it's possible to meet those standards. And if not, then ya just lower them a bit.

A lot of it feels like business to me. And why I liked the leadership/follower/skill-set stuff. No reasonable person should expect to make a million dollars in revenue their year of starting a company. So keeping standards reasonable is good.

Though in business you can trade up. But trading up doesn't have to be an end goal. There's lots of family run businesses that are perfectly happy running their little store in their hometown. They never had to sell their soul to be like Walmart.

The goal is to be happy, not win at some metaphysical scoreboard. The goal is to be with someone who makes you happy. Not be with the hottest supermodel you can lay claim to.

People these days are dating to win some score, not to find happiness. And it's fucking them over.

Hajimoomoo · 2023-01-23T10:01:56+00:00

Easy. This stems from the idea that wolves have alpha/beta/omega dynamics.

The creator and biologist of this book and the thesis behind it has since reevaluated the topic and debunked the idea himself.

Debunking it is therefore easy because its obviously not even supported by its own creator.

Shot-Cellist9635 · 2023-01-23T10:47:01+00:00

In general, if a guy talks about alpha stuff, he's far from it. Real men aren't concerned with alpha validation because they have more meaningful things in life that give them purpose. The most manly and dangerous man in the room is usually the quietest one in the back holding his wife's purse. That's the guy who goes from lamb to full on monster mode the fastest, ironically the same time the red pillers begin running away

Sad_Apple_1911 · 2023-01-23T08:12:30+00:00

Datepsych writes about this

AkuTheNiceGuy · 2023-01-23T15:58:33+00:00

As an omega male myself I'd say the stuff is only for other men to acknowledge

DaftWarror181 · 2023-01-23T17:37:08+00:00

The whole alpha/beta dichotomy originates from outdated studies done on wolves, not humans. Not only that, subsequent research has shown that this isn't even how wolf packs operate. Even for wolves, this understanding of power dynamics is too binary and too simplistic to reflect reality. It's a stupid mythology that originates from a misunderstanding of canines.

Title	Debunking the alpha/beta dichotomy
Author	LCBrianC
Upvotes	10
Comments	50
Date	January 23, 2023 5:07 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/10j4hm8/debunking_the_alphabeta_dichotomy/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/debunking-the-alphabeta-dichotomy.1149269 https://theredarchive.com/post/1149269

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