GirlWritesWhat on Unwanted Sex vs. Rape

roland3337 · 2012-02-18T02:39:06+00:00

I admire her tenacity. If I had a shipping address, I'd fed ex a six pack to her.

Writing for GMP on an MRM issue is a dicey thing at best. As a woman, she might be one of the few that could actually be heard and maybe understood.

Accusations of being in favor of rape? Not sure that it could stick on her. At least not like it would if I, (a man) wrote something similar.

At worst, detractors could claim that she is 'blind to her own oppression' (which is of course...complete cultural Marxist bullshit).

G-O · 2012-02-18T00:50:29+00:00

They're going to hate that one.

NightAria · 2012-02-18T15:25:53+00:00

I this there are some non verbal/verbal ways other than stop or no to show no consent like trying to keep a barrier between you and other person by using your hands and arms. Moving your head away from theirs if they try and kiss you, or whimpering or crying while they try and get on top of you. Those all seem to be very obviously a way to say you aren't interested but a frown or look of discomfort during is a little harder to discern what it means.

chavelah · 2012-02-18T14:17:44+00:00

Early anti-rape campaigns focused on a phrase I could really get behind: “No means no.” But things have morphed a little since then, into an attitude of, “Anything but an enthusiastic and oft-repeated ‘yes’ means no.”

Can't upvote enough. I am just the right age to have lived through this particular insanity during my premarital recreational-sex years, and it was appalling. What exactly was wrong with "No Means No?" It's self-explanatory and gender-neutral, and our whole damn society got behind it.

eskachig · 2012-02-18T02:28:51+00:00

All that seems to be obvious and common sense. Consent can be withdrawn at any time - but that must be clearly communicated.

Nevertheless, the terrible thing about rape is that it's so often a he-said/she-said thing and the rapist can simply say he didn't hear anything. But that's a separate and more fundamental issue.

TomBayes · 2012-02-18T03:30:44+00:00

I've heard people at the counseling center at some unnamed state school say it is very difficult when a woman comes in who feels she was raped while she was drunk at a party, but all the signs point to morning regret after realizing she just slept with somebody she wouldn't have had sex with if she had been sober. It is a slippery slope for the counseling center. On one hand, they can't know for sure and would hate to steer her wrong if she really was raped. On the other, they don't want to ruin some guy's life because some woman won't take responsibility for her own actions. Sadly, this is quite a common occurrence too.

banished_one · 2012-02-18T13:33:36+00:00

There was a post on rapecounseling on this subject. Basically the girl said she didn't want to have sex but the man didn't cease the kissing etc. She didn't want to be a bitch,her words, after this and agreed to have sex. After the deed was done she felt bad about this and was asking whether this was rape or not because she didn't want to falsely accuse a man of rape.

The advice she got was; it was certainly rape because she said no at some point and false rape accusations was a myth. I don't even think she feels raped. Hell she agreed to it, it was just an unpleasant sex for her and a man's life, who had no idea he was doing anything wrong, is going to be ruined because of the advice she was given by feminists. Because as soon a a man is charged with rape everybody "knows" he's guilty and if he is found not guilty he just got away with it.

Bobsutan · 2012-02-21T08:49:13+00:00

Boy and girl have sex, its obviously consesual due to verbal consent, eg "fuck me now!"

Boy and girl have sex, its obviously rape if one says no or otherwise tells the other person to stop when the other person keeps going anyway.

Now the issue at hand: one of them doesn't want to have sex but they do so anyway and do not advise the other person. To say this is rape removes agency of the supposed victim and tracks to a common trend in our society of not holding people accountable for their actions. Doubly so for women and matters concerning sex and violence. This debate is one such example. Like she stated in the article, women need to put on their big girl panties and take responsibility for their actions in these matters.

misseff · 2012-02-18T03:11:30+00:00

No one else think the murdering the ex-husband joke was a little off putting? Just me?

But either way, nothing that she is saying is new or unheard of. Haven't we all heard these same arguments before? Women drink willingly, women don't say no, innocent guys get accused of rape, etc., etc. It may have been more useful to dedicate that effort to examining the why instead of the how in this case, in regards to gender relations around sex, consent, rape, etc.

eskachig · 2012-02-18T04:46:23+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Grapeban · 2012-02-18T03:49:03+00:00

I think the moral here is that people need to be much more alert about consent. I totally agree, it is not always obvious whether or not the other partner is consenting, or if they've changed their mind. That is why your responsibility is to enquire whenever you get even the slightest doubt about their enthusiasm or willingness.

Yeah, that suggestion might sound kinda dorky and you may say it takes the fun out of sex or whatever, but just remember that not raping people > having fun.

Also, this article gives a very victim blaming feel. I wouldn't go so far as to call it rape apologism, but at times it feels like the author is blaming the victim for not being outspoken enough about their displeasure, whereas as I would blame the "rapist" (in quotation marks because whether or not they are a rapist is the subject of debate) for not being astute enough to notice signs of non-consent, and not acting on those signs.

Womyn1st · 2012-02-18T19:43:55+00:00

Any sex that occurs as a result of a man intentionally deceiving the womyn is rape.

funnyfaceking · 2012-02-18T10:14:53+00:00

tl;dr: too many "let's say"s at the beginning

it's sad. sounds like a very important message that needs to be gotten across.

Title	GirlWritesWhat on Unwanted Sex vs. Rape
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	59
Comments	121
Date	February 18, 2012 12:41 AM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/pun3j/girlwriteswhat_on_unwanted_sex_vs_rape/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/girlwriteswhat-on-unwanted-sex-vs-rape.1027467 https://theredarchive.com/post/1027467

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