Feminists tore up their side of the social gender contract and are desperate to keep men upholding their unbroken side of that contract.

[–]ProWomanAntiFeminist 52 points53 points54 points 14 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[+]zaferk -9 points-8 points-7 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ProWomanAntiFeminist 11 points12 points13 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]crookers -16 points-15 points-14 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ashali 22 points23 points24 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+]crookers -18 points-17 points-16 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]BinaryShadow 10 points11 points12 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[+]crookers -13 points-12 points-11 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ProWomanAntiFeminist 9 points10 points11 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points22 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]morris198 13 points14 points15 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]cherryskull 12 points13 points14 points 14 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

See, I am very much pro mens rights, i'll go down fighting for them and I strongly believe they are smacked about by feminists to the extreme, HOWEVER, I am not a fan of PUA. I find it tacky, fake and really quite tedious.

This might be because I have never met a man who is into the whole scene who isn't a complete and total jackass who i've wanted to shove up his own fedora - or it might be because I really detest having "pick up" used on me in any fashion.

THAT SAID! It isn't up to feminists to tell men how to find confidence to approach women, maybe if they wiped their consistent bitchface iced attitude off more men would be more willing to just say hi, rather than resorting to PUA to feel like they can approach women.

To be honest, I think this article misses the point a bit in what feminists "hate" it's not PUA, it's pretty much everything to do with men and forward sexual attention, i've lost count of how many of them bitch and moan that they are being objectified or feel uncomfortable by "male attention" - you'd think that they get it every day (LOL!)

The problem is what PUA brings to the table as a whole, men who are willing to come up and break the ice, even if it's cheesy and kinda tedious, with the intention of trying to "Pick Up" - THAT is what pisses the femmes off, that men are attempting to pick women up.

Wake up feminists, it's not you they are trying to pick up.

[–]baconOclock 9 points10 points11 points 14 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought the PUA scene came up as reactionary because of the dating game has changed so much, that many men are now clueless on how they should act around women. I once thought of becoming a guru/dating coach after helping some of my friends. I liked the look on their faces when they seemed more happy and they were more successful because I care about them a lot. I thought I was coming up with something new and underground and that's when I learned about this mega multi million dollar industry existed from looking up online about 4 years ago. I took time to look around to see what other guys were offering, to evaluate some of the other people's ideas and how they compared to mine, etc. and what I saw is mostly the desire to make easy money off desperate dudes. That's when I said fuck it I'm not gonna be part of that.

[–]cherryskull 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

To be honest, I am unsure what the real deal with PUA is, I have just had a few people try it with me and I kind of went "... why can't you just be normal, stop with the one liners, it's kinda weird."

I am all for more confident guys, I think it's great seeing a guy be all forward and "hey, lets chat!" but, not with the "how much does a polar bear weigh?" - "enough to break the ice" - no, no BAD, BAD.

I know a guy who is like, in the cult of PUA and used to tell me all about it, (I still have nfi what it all is) - but he'd tell me what the codes were for women and all this crazy nonsense, when really, a simple hello and a smile works 100x better.

This, to date, is the WORST pickup line i've ever had used on me "Is that a ladder in your stocking or a stairway to heaven" - i've never wanted to upend my drink onto someone so much in my life.

This is all I know about PUA, mostly the bad - some of it tragic.

[–]baconOclock 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I guess it somewhat proves my point that most of the information out there is complete bullshit. Quick fixes for a couple of bucks have always been popular, just look at how many infomercials there are about another new way to get in the best shape of your life and loose 75 lbs of fat in 30 days!!! It's part of our fast food culture. I would never advise anyone to use canned material and I'm glad you had a good laugh. My approach is much different but I have a true Machiavellian brain designed for this type of thing from the start and I just analyse the person and help them grow to the point they become attractive and confident. I also hate when people have an inflated self esteem built around nothing but thin air. Thing is, males often don't really have a great role model, are often raised without a father and they can't really always take their advice from women. In other words, it takes a man to raise a man and women are essential too, but they are perfect to raise boys. This often ends up badly for men making an ass out of themselves in the courtship because they have never acquired the required maturity to become attractive.

[–]cherryskull 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]1337speaker 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]cherryskull -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BinaryShadow 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]cherryskull 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]BinaryShadow 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (43 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 14 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points13 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]fondueguy 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheDongerNeedsFood 56 points57 points58 points 14 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link

If that is how you truly feel, then it makes you a true egalitarian, or you could also be classified as a "feminist" according to the original definition of the term that was used during the 1960's.

The problem nowadays is that the vast majority of feminists have gone way past female empowerment and are pretty much solely concerned with female entitlement.

I don't doubt that you firmly believe what you wrote, and I don't doubt that what you wrote reflects your own personal beliefs. If that is indeed true, then we MRA's have no issues whatsoever with you and with other women like you.

However, the problem is that it really seems that you and others like you do not represent the majority of modern feminism.

The modern feminists are the ones who will scream bloody murder about how women and men need to be paid exactly the same wages for exactly the same job (which is true, pay for the same job should be equal regardless of gender), but then will turn right around and also scream bloody murder about how men should always pay for dinner/movies/tickets, and everything else.

The modern feminists are the ones who raise a huge ruckus about how "higher education is such a hostile environment towards women" while completely ignoring the facts that women now make up over 60% of students in higher education, and that number is rising.

The modern feminist will proudly wear her pink ribbon for breast cancer month (as we all should), but scream male oppression at anyone who brings up the idea of having a "Prostate Cancer Month", despite the fact that not only are there no less than 4 government agencies devoted solely to women's health (and not a single one dedicated to mens' health), but that men also die at a higher rate than women at literally every age.

The traditional gender roles arose because of the hardships that had to be endured in order to ensure the survival of our species. Women did have to take more subservient, domestically-oriented positions, but they only did this because the men were required to take on the self-sacrificial roles that were necessary to protect and provide for the family.

As human culture/society advanced, these roles became less and less necessary as there were fewer and fewer direct threats that humans needed to be protected from. This all came to a head during the feminist revolution that started during the 1960's, when women rose up and demanded to be treated as equals as men.

And you know what, us MRAs have absolutely no problem with that. If a woman wants to go out and get a job, have her own home, and be a completely independent, empowered women, we not only tolerate that, we celebrate it.

The issue at heart of all of this is that once women rose up and gained their independence/empowerment, they decided that they wanted all of the rights and privileges that came with it, but none of the responsibilities. It is as this article said, women have demanded the right to leave the cave and set out on their own, but at the same time they have also demanded that men still provide for and sacrifice themselves for the sake of women.

When the feminist revolution started during the 60's. higher education was at least 60% male, if not more. The feminists demanded change, they demanded access to everything the males had access to (which was totally understandable), and they rightfully got it. But here we are now 50 years later, and the situations are completely reversed with women making up at least 60% of higher education. But how many feminists do you see pointing out the horrible disadvantages the boys are now faced with in the educational system? How many women do you see pointing out these issues and actively trying to do something about it? The answer to both is virtually none.

Some university statistician actually carried out this trend to its theoretical end, and he found that if the trend continues on its current path, the last male in the united states to earn a bachelor's degree will do so in about the year 2060. And if the modern feminists continue to get their way, he will have every woman on the planet screaming at him about how he was solely responsible for the hostile environment they encountered on campus, and that he must buy them all dinner.

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]poubelle 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]wavegeekman 16 points17 points18 points 14 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Hmm I don't see it.

Women's diseases get more research funding than men's. Do feminist organizations call for equal funding? No. Instead they lobby for more money for research into women's health.

Women live longer than men. Do feminist organizations call for action to reduce the death gap? No. Instead the focus is on any minor remaining health areas where women fall behind.

More men in prison. Do feminist organizations call for actions to reduce this? No. Instead there are frequent calls for more lenient treatment of women.

More male suicides. Feminist response: focus on higher number of female suicide "attempts".

More women in college and graduating with bachelors and masters degrees. Feminist response: focus on the few remaining faculties where men are in higher numbers.

False rape claims are endemic. Feminist response: deny the problem, call for the burden of proof to be lowered, relevant evidence disallowed, remove the right of the accused to face his accuser.

Feminist organizations have consistently supported pro-female anti-male policies such as female preference for child custody, and payment of alimony.

The vast majority of murder victims and victims of violence are male. Feminist response: focus on female victims and ignore male victims, support laws that mandate arrest of the male in a domestic dispute regardless of the evidence, lobby for widening of female excuses for violence and murder.

I judge feminists by their actions. Their actions show that feminism has nothing to do with equality and everything to do with maximizing female privilege.

[–]chavelah -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]ProWomanAntiFeminist 12 points13 points14 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]loose-dendrite 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Does feminism claim to be equality for all? I have the very strong impression that feminism is about equality for women. That's still equality but it means they will only advocate at the behest of women. Of course, they'd have to stop advocating in an area when women are equal and we know they don't, but feminism in the ideal is only the feminine side of gender equality.

Also in the ideal feminism should support MR so men have advocacy but of course they also don't in practice.

... After writing all this I reread what you said and now interpret "Feminists" as actual feminists instead of the rhetoric. You are right that in practice the movers and shakers of feminism claim that 'Feminism = "equality for all"' as a rhetorical tool to fight their opposition. I think it's usually by implying that MR and its issues are anti-woman and not explicitly saying that feminism is equality for all.

[–]ProWomanAntiFeminist 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]chavelah 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ProWomanAntiFeminist 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]loose-dendrite 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]luhdiablify1 -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ProWomanAntiFeminist 7 points8 points9 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

You're making a very common error in judgment here. You feel positively about the Feminist movement, and you want to believe the most positive things about the movement, so you are looking at the whole thing through rose-colored glasses.

Feminists CLAIM to be an egalitarian movement, but words are meaningless when the actions show clear supremacism and hatred for men.

I could cite about 1,000,000 examples of what I'm talking about, but here's a few examples:

The Feminist Movement supported/supports the Violence Against Women Act which gives women special privilege. Despite that men and women commit domestic violence at roughly equal rates and men are far more likely than women to be victims of violent crime.
All over the country, women's groups lobby against bills meant to make child custody more fair to fathers.
The Feminist movement lobbied the Obama administration to give the majority of stimulus money to female-dominated industries.
Many feminists, including Jessica Valenti, want to prosecute men accused of rape as "guilty until proven innocent" in effect removing constitutional rights from one gender.
Feminists active within the Occupy movement openly state that they are organizing the events to purposefully stifle male views and opinions. See "progressive stack."
The National Organization of Women opposes efforts to reform Social Security because, in their words, the status quo dramatically benefits women and they want to keep that coming.
Feminists demand equal representation for women in all desirable careers that currently have a majority of men, yet they are comfortable with their privilege in female-dominated desirable professions such as government workers, education, and health care.
Young women who express a desire to be stay-at-home mothers report being harassed and belittled by Feminists, who claim she has been brainwashed by men.

I could list like five billion more examples than this, but I think you get my point.

I have been talking about men's rights for a really long time now, and I can count the number of Feminists on one hand that I've met who are genuine egalitarians.

[–]fondueguy 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ProWomanAntiFeminist 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]fondueguy 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Celda 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Whisper 10 points11 points12 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Oh, look, yet another MRA that totally misunderstands the goals and ideas of feminism. I hate to break it to you, but you'd be hard-pressed to find a feminist that would actually be upset by that.

Oh, really?

Do you speak, then, with complete knowledge of what you would feel, or expect, if you were in a burning building? Have you ever been in a burning building?

You see, words are wind. Feminists don't get to define themselves as egalitarians simply by saying so, any more than Richard Nixon gets to exonerate himself by saying "I am not a crook".

It doesn't matter who we say we are, or who we think we are inside. It is our actions that define us.

When MRAs say that feminists are not egalitarian, we are not failing to understand what they say. We are saying what we see.

Let me say it one more time, just to make it clear:

The "goals and ideas" of feminism don't matter. What matters is the actions of feminists.

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Whisper 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Also, call me an idealist, but the goals and ideas ARE what matters. Actions and behaviors stem from those goals and ideas, and if I am to really hope to see an honest discourse and real solid social change, then those goals and ideas are where I need to start.

The problem with that is that anyone can say anything.

If you allow people to be judged by their goals and motivations, rather than their actions and results, and you take people at their word for what those goals and motivations are...

...well, then everyone is noble. I could come up with some examples involving nazis, but you get the point.

It's not meaningful when feminists call themselves "egalitarian", if they act in a non-egalitarian manner (preferring women over men), and work towards non-egalitarian outcomes (encouraging society to prefer women over men).

I practice what I preach, and I am quick to criticize someone who calls herself a feminist when, really, she is more of a female supremacist. There is a difference, and I am wholly against the latter.

I dislike the term "female supremacist", even when there clearly are such. It's not helpful because, unlike, say, white supremacists, female supremacists are not aware that this is what they are.

I'm not talking about your obvious, abort-male-babies, heterosexuality-betrays-movement, testosterone-cause-psychosis radical feminists. The female supremacists we have to worry about are your standard women-need-more-stuff feminists. These are the ones who are female supremacists and they don't know it. This is because they are pushing towards female supremacist outcomes and assuming they're not bigots because they don't have (or don't think they have) female supremacist goals.

So when you say your intentions are good, my reactions are twofold:

You expect me to take your word for this?
Even if I did, so what? What does it matter if your actions are harmful, and you refuse to change them?

[–]luhdiablify1 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Your reasoning: If we have A(actions and behaviors) then they stem from I(Ideas and Goals), to obtain A we need to start with I ... It's a Logical fallacy:

{If A then I, I therefore A}...Fail

So whatever your intentions are, your reasoning in drawing your conclusions about how ideas relate to action are erroneous and completely illogical.

And if your excuse for why feminists have ignored the 10 to 1 homeless ration in NYC or the 4 to 1 suicide rates or all the other staggering statistics is that 'ideas and goals' haven't materialized yet, I have to say you are a dishonest person. They haven't materialized because feminists DO NOT CARE ABOUT EQUALITY, they want POWER for women and nothing else, full stop. Their actions show this and any attempt to side step this with completely obtuse excuses about ideology is insulting to the intelligence of MRA's.

[–]ProWomanAntiFeminist 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]wavegeekman 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]cherryskull 7 points8 points9 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]zaferk 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]luhdiablify1 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think he was using that as an example of how society values a woman's life more than a man's life, I doubt he thinks women are constantly worried about burning buildings.

The repercussions of society valuing women's lives the same as men will have devastating consequences for women which feminists didn't predict in their race to grab hold of this cherry picked male gender fantasy (the one where all men, even effeminate men, live in an monumental field of perpetual resonating power).

Feminists never cared about things like the homeless and suicide statistics, or all the elephant in the room jaw dropping OBVIOUS benefits of reproductive power which is routinely ignored by feminists. Feminists never cared to reverse these.

MRA's are interested in giving feminists EVERYTHING they wanted, not just the smiley half which they saw in their sparkling imaginations, but the whole battle-hardened reality of being a man. We want WOMENS ASSES in the draft, we want equal female to male deaths in war, we will not rest until women make up the equal population-proportion of workplace deaths, of suicides and of the homeless, we want women to break the glass basement if they are sooo set on breaking the glass ceiling and we will not rest until chivalry is completely 100% dead. You want equality of outcome, and MRA's would be glad to give it to you.

We are glad to let go of the world and drop in on your shoulders. Enjoy, the future of men is in taking care of ourselves. We have no interest anymore in pathetic woman-catering. You're on your own.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]PersonalityDisorder 12 points13 points14 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]baconOclock 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ameoba -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]Liverotto -7 points-6 points-5 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

This metaphor may sound ridiculous to you, but it really gets the point across.

Think of men as humans and women as horses, just a thought experiment.

Is it right for humans to enslave and ride horses?

You can agree or disagree with that like:

Yes: it is right this has been for million of years and horses are domesticated and used to have a man on top.
No: Horses have rights too, they are living beings why should be like slaves or owned all their life, let them free.

No matter what you answered Yes or NO in your head at the precedent options, we can all agree, ALL AGREE, that is unsustainable for horses to ride men.

THINK OF A HORSE RIDING A MAN: That is Feminism nowadays in the West.

It is unsustainable for Western Women to ride men for long, rob them of them of their children, house, car and income.

Blame nature, I don't care, but it is a fact, women are way heavier to carry.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]ottawadeveloper 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Liverotto 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Swan_Writes 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I watched and listed to my father as his dreams of a large family broke apart. He wanted more than one child, but my mother (for her own very good reasons) refused. I will never forget his hart break, the tears in his eyes, looking down at his strong yet empty hands and declaring that women had all the power he wanted. Nothing he could do or say mattered, his fight was lost and gone.

I've always found it easier to love and respect him, and men in general, then my mother or women like her. I remember when I was 15 and realized I could now make a child myself. I promised my dad that, while I could not make concrete promises and I would finish school first, I would also do my best to have children that he could consider his, to have a son that he could teach his trade to, that I would not take another's name but give my/his name to my children. Good parent that he is, he laughed my offer off and let me know those dreams where past and I was to live my own life; that this was the best way to bring him happiness.

I'm 36 now and never have had a pregnancy, mostly for lack of support and maturity in my relationships. I am not a strong enough horse to carry myself and a child alone in this world, and that makes me weep.

I have never considered myself a feminist, because my early impression of them was of angry and sexist people of narrow imagination. I've been following and supporting, in word and deed, the men's rights movement for more than 20 years.

I've even been accused of being a misogynist with no hart. I am an Egalitarian, I have a brain. What do you consider the "female question"? I consider it a family question, a continuation of the human genome directive. Both genders are needed for many reasons, and for reasons of biology men and women can never be equal, yet we can strive for legal equality and equal potency in the world.

[–]ottawadeveloper 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]Unenjoyed -11 points-10 points-9 points 14 years ago (34 children) | Copy Link

[+]altxatu -10 points-9 points-8 points 14 years ago (33 children) | Copy Link

I have found that what seems like a majority of articles about MRA stuff seems to concern itself with feminism, or rather how they view MRA stuff. It saddens me to see so much of that stuff.

Isn't there some common ground between the two groups? I've said it before, but I think dividing ourselves is counter productive. We're fighting toward the same goal, equality between the sexes. I see no reason why we can't simply agree on a majority of things. In fact the only reason against it would be the fundamentalists in either camp. I see a lot of parallels between those two movements, and the current state of politics in the United States, in that I think fundamentalists are holding us back from making great strides forward.

I think an article detailing where the two meet in the middle naturally, and where they diverge would be much more helpful toward achieving equality.

That said I see some of the outlying issues as being thorns in everyone's side. Such as biological issues, are woman naturally more nurturing? Are men naturally more physical? What things separate the two sexes based only on genetics, as opposed to what things separate us based on societal mores? Those issues I see as being more complicated. The other stuff I don't get.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points13 points 14 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]Meadester 9 points10 points11 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Demonspawn 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]ottawadeveloper 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I really don't think the feminist position is equivalent to the MRM position. I find it rather frustrating that so many people see the MRM as the male-equivalent of the feminist movement. We specifically rejected the term Masculinist because we DIDNT WANT to be male feminists. We wanted to do something different. I think there's lots of valid differences between the two movements, I think we have entirely different platforms, and we deserve to be judged on our own merits, not in comparison to feminism.

And I still maintain that the only reason the MRM is anti-feminist is because of the constant attack by feminism, on men in general, and the MRM in particular. We don't have a theory vilifying women or feminism, we rightly view it as an opponent to MR because, again, they keep attacking MR. It's really not that complicated. There can be no compromise unless and until feminism stops attacking Mens Rights.

[–]altxatu 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]altxatu 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Perhaps, but that's a part of sociology. Sometimes results are ambiguous. Discounting feminism simply because it's based off of sociology/woman's studies isn't okay. Human right's are always important, be it for woman or men, or both. Discounting them out of hand does nothing to help anyone, any where. There are plenty of examples of sexism in our society for both sexes.

Where my wife works is mostly female, so when they need something heavy moved she calls me. She doesn't call me because I'm a man, but because I can lift the stuff without much trouble. However the other woman there think they can't because they're woman. That's not okay. They can do the same work I can. Then they'll eye me with suspicion because I'm a male in a pre-K child development center. That's not okay either. There is sexism in our world, and to dismiss a movement out of hand doesn't do anyone any favors.

As far as the studies go, a good solid study holds up to the rigors of attention. Good, bad or whatever.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]altxatu 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Ah. What do they propose to do about this/these things? How is society set up to benefit men over woman?

People are going to make off-color jokes. Nothing can be done about that, and I'd like to think that we realize that rape isn't anything to laugh at, but I'd also like to think that we realize that we can find humor anywhere despite the subject matter.

EDIT; I'm results oriented. If there is a problem, and we can identify it then we should be able to come up with at least one plan of action to solve the problem. Sometimes those plans blow out loud and we need to discuss and debate their merits, but that's part of the discourse that should be encouraged. If there is a rape culture how can we stop it, or reverse it? If society is geared toward rewarding men, and ignoring the achievements of woman, how can stop that, or what can we do to otherwise make society more achievement based as opposed to sex based? I see the idea of a patriarchal society mainly benefiting men in the area of employment, perhaps if we employed online applications, with randomly assigned numbers/letters instead of names? I really don't know, I'm just throwing out ideas. It seems to me, that all info for an employee with the exception of work history, applicable experience, and education seems superfluous. If I were an employer that's all I would care about. How well can you do the job, and how well can you get along with the other workers?

[–]wavegeekman 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]altxatu 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Demonspawn 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Unenjoyed -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]rantgrrl 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Unenjoyed 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]altxatu -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]wavegeekman -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]altxatu 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]wavegeekman 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]altxatu 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]barbadosslim -14 points-13 points-12 points 14 years ago* (20 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 14 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]barbadosslim -17 points-16 points-15 points 14 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 14 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]zaferk 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]zaferk 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]zaferk 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]barbadosslim -13 points-12 points-11 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points13 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] -6 points-5 points-4 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Meadester 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ProWomanAntiFeminist 12 points13 points14 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]cherryskull 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ProWomanAntiFeminist 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ENTP -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ENTP 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Feminists tore up their side of the social gender contract and are desperate to keep men upholding their unbroken side of that contract.

Comments

HOW DID YOU KNOW