TMBR: Sex and drunkenness - always the man's fault?

ExistentialEnso · 2011-03-20T18:46:09+00:00

Two relevant first-hand experiences from college:

1) In our mandatory freshman health class, broken up into classes of 200+, a self-described feminist administrator from the school came out to discuss their policy before a young woman stood up and said (roughly), "I find this offensive as a woman, as it implies I'm less responsible for my actions." The class erupted in applause.

2) I was invited to a small, private frat party that a slutty girl that was into me was attending. The time I got was an hour early. I found out later from the host that she had asked him to get me there early so he could start getting me drunk, and he was pressuring me to do shots with him from the minute I got there. If she hadn't gotten drunk to the point of puking and the university's policy wasn't in the back of my mind, the night would've ended up with me committing what they officially considered to be "date rape" despite being the target...

Ma99ie · 2011-03-20T15:42:46+00:00

Men AND women must be held accountable for their actions. So, if two drunk college kids have an alcohol fueled encounter, no one should be held more responsible than the other. That being said, one must look at extreme cases on a case by case basis. If you have some inexperienced freshman girl who hasn't even put on her freshman fifteen, that goes to a franternity and encouraged to get wasted (not just drunk, but wasted), and she wakes up finding out she did 10 brothers...Houston, we have problem.

There has to be some bottom line of acceptable behavior on both ends.

alanpugh · 2011-03-20T16:51:33+00:00

If a woman is unconscious with your dick in her (even though she was all gung-ho before she passed out), then your job is to go to the bath-room, finish off on a towel, dress her and carry her to your couch where she won't drown in her own barf. After that, go sleep in your own bed. Then, in the morning, tell her you never want to see her again because she can't handle her alcohol and that you had to stop in the middle of sex. Tell her the truth that she passed out, and that you couldn't continue.

If a woman is getting out of line with alcohol, it's okay to tell her. Black-out drunk is different from typical party behavior. Slurring words and loose control over actions is not okay to take advantage of (for either sexes). If someone doesn't remember how many drinks they've had, they are being irresponsible and you should stay away.

Finally, as a guy you need to decide how many drinks are okay before you get out of control. It's difficult for women to take advantage of a drunk guy because they generally can't keep a boner. It's easier for a guy to take advantage of a woman because women just pass out. Protect yourself and your integrity and ask the woman if she's all right before continuing anything.

Finally, it's unfortunate that many women and men have to be drunk to have sex in order to disguise the reality of the situation. I wouldn't say this is ideal sexual behavior for both genders. Sex shouldn't have to come with all these legal implications, but extreme dangerous partying makes it that way.

sonnyclips · 2011-03-20T19:05:08+00:00

On some level if you fuck someone that you know would not have sex with you if they were sober that's kind of a problem. If either my wife or I is blackout drunk and we fuck who the hell cares. She knows as well as I do that we're game for that kind of thing.

Better yet lets put it in another context. If I were into being pegged by my SO and I get fucked up and agree to being buttfucked with a strap-on not so big a deal. Some random dude walks in and takes over for my SO and starts sticking his dick up my ass and I can't tell the difference is that right? Fuck no it ain't right and that's what it is like for some gal who comes around and realizes that some tool that she don't like fucked her when she was wasted. Same goes for the shoe being on the other foot.

I think the problem is when society tries to figure out some blanket all purpose rule for a situation that, pardon the pun, just can't be "one size fits all."

Xeno505 · 2011-03-20T19:29:54+00:00

Part of the problem is that men are viewed as the initiators/predators/requestors of one night stands and that women are always on the responsive end.

What happens when these roles are reversed and what role does alcohol play on the initiating and responding partner?

disposable_human · 2011-03-20T23:23:09+00:00

TMBR = Timber? WTF?

Unexplained acronyms that seem made up on the spot drive me crazy

Redkiteflying · 2011-03-20T16:12:37+00:00

If a person gets his or herself too drunk to act reasonably (or stand up) then it's not the job of heroes to step in and ensure that that person is escorted home in a safe manner.

It also isn't OK for someone to take advantage of another person who is too drunk to act reasonably. Nobody deserves to get taken advantage of (sexually or otherwise) when they are extremely intoxicated. The type of rationale expressed in this particular sentiment leaves more room to "blame the victim" than I am comfortable with.

missrebecca · 2011-03-20T16:05:58+00:00

The study also found that 75 per cent of women said they liked to drink before getting into bed with their husband or boyfriend.

And is there something wrong with that? You are gonna be more relaxed than normally, sex while drunk with your husband or boyfriend is kinda special. That doesnt mean that you wanna fuck every one else while drunk, or that there couldn't be consensual sex with someone, while under the influence of alcohol, when you are not dating.

It's however really disturbing, I would imagine, if you wake up and dont remember why or how you had sex with someone.

Edit. If there is a possibility that she/he had had too much alcohol and wouldn't remember it the next day, you shouldn't be having sex.

Redkiteflying · 2011-03-20T19:40:22+00:00

The more relevant issue is if both parties were drunk and had sex - why is the male the rapist.

Why is it not the female?

altmehere · 2011-03-21T04:14:52+00:00

I think one important point just isn't being brought up here: what if both are drunk? Neither can legally give consent, but the man is still liable to get in trouble.

This is the case I think needs to be addressed.

yeahitreallysucks13 · 2011-03-20T20:03:07+00:00

Why is it people are seen as unable to consent when drunk and in women's cases not held responsible for their decision yet when they drive drunk being drunk isn't an excuse.

Either being drunk isn't an excuse for bad behavior all of the time or it is an excuse for bad behavior all of the time.

None of this in between crap

BinaryShadow · 2011-03-20T16:00:21+00:00

What? Does anyone complain about having had sex while drunk? I mean, if you find an attractive person passed out the right thing to do is to make sure they don't drown in their own puke and stay warm, not to rape them. Clearly. As long as someone seems coherent though, one must assume that they know what they are doing.

sky33dive · 2011-03-20T17:58:47+00:00

The truth is i don't think any guy wants to have sex with a gal who is passed out. It sickens me how easy it is for guys here to buy that any guy would want to do that. Being drunk doesn't change the most fundamental rules of attraction. A drunk guy may hookup with a chick below his caliber in looks, but he will not be attracted to a chick who can barely move. Good sex is when people are goin' at it, bad sex is when either one of both of two people are timid. Think about good handshakes vs. bad handshakes. The honest to god truth is that women have higher post-sex regrets and more negative stereotypes to deal with when it comes to being loose. Combine that with her sleeping with someone potentially below her caliber; making a mistake about not using a condom; trying some new taboo sex thing out; etc, and she's prone to blaming it on the "al-al-al-al-al-alcohol,: but unlike the song she's taking it to lengths of saying the alcohol rendered her unable to give consent. If she were really at that point, no dude would want to have sex with her (their hand would be a more attractive venture)

The truth is that there are three cases: 1. Girls who have puked, passed out, or blacked out. 2. A grey area (girl is experienced alcoholic who is on her way to hitting (1) but hasn't yet). 3. Girls who drank but did not loose their marbles

If you consider the fact that no guy would really want to have sex with (1) or (2). It seems clear that a lot of girls are a member of case (3) but find it overwhelmingly easy to lie and say they are a member of case (1) or (2) given how much rape-hysteria is in the air.

The first time I got really drunk, a good female friend of mine started to try and get me to take off my clothes. I ended up puking and passing out. Did I accuse her of sexual assault? hell no. I made the decision to take the risk of going off the deep end by doing shots with her. Furthermore, she was my good friend so I know she had my best interests at heart. No non-sociopathic person wants to take advantage of another person. People like sex precisely because it is two people having a shared experience. It's only these bizarre, bigotted stereotypes against men that muddy the issue and make people think men want to take advantage of women.

gnovos · 2011-03-20T23:50:56+00:00

Here's a big question... If you can't be held responsible for consenting to sex while drunk, why can you be held responsible to consenting to drive? To be consistent, it should be impossible for women to get DUIs.

2011-03-20T19:32:40+00:00

Someone said:

If you are drunk, you can't consent.

This line is a lot of PC naive bullshit.

Sorry, but if I'm drunk or my fiancee is drunk we can give consent just fine. And so can anyone else who chose to get drunk.

I'm willing to take responsibility for my actions, and if I drink enough to get black out drunk, my actions are my responsibility regardless of my state.

Saying that if you're drunk you can't consent is really stupid. I've consented to a lot of things drunk and I'll consent to them again. I've also done some really stupid things drunk, too, but I don't blame anyone but myself for doing the things I did.

If the law says otherwise, the law is stupid too. If the law says you can't consent when you're drunk, it's stupid.

This lack of personal responsibility in the general population is pathetic. "Big daddy government, please tell me whether I consented because I'm too stupid to decide myself! Liberty? Fuck it."

Liverotto · 2011-03-20T16:20:11+00:00

Yes, women are never held accountable when there is a man to blame.

MuForceShoelace · 2011-03-20T15:27:52+00:00

You really show your motive by having such a scatter shot topic.

fondueguy · 2011-03-21T19:00:15+00:00

A 2009 survey in England found that many women deliberately get themselves drunk in order to have sex "

No fucking shit! They choose to get drunk and they know the effects.

thrownthefuckaway · 2011-03-21T05:40:12+00:00

OK so I was on both sides of this situation in college and the end result was enough to make me create a throwaway account many years later.

I am a good looking guy, or so I've been told. I need two hands to count the number of times I've come out of a blackout while hooking up with a girl. Half of those were for the first time. One night a girl went so far as pulling my gear out, jerking me off and slapping me in the face when i was passed out outside in front of a half dozen witnesses. Violated? yes. Responsible for my actions? probably.

On the flip side, one night i brought a nice young woman back to my room and she said that she would hook up with me if her friends didn't find out. I replied that I was a gentleman and wouldn't brag. We got in to it and she initiated sex by climbing on top and riding me. About an hour after a seemingly normal hookup a few mutual friends came up to me and started grilling me about if we hooked up. I stuck to my word and denied it, which led to them following me home and threatening to beat me up. When I woke up my roommate informed me that the girl told our friends I raped her and that I couldn't live there anymore. I was backed into a corner because I had denied tho whole thing -- at her request -- and at one point climbed to the top of a parking structure with the intent of jumping to my death. Thankfully I puked and chickened out. She never went to the authorities and our mutual friends all came to realize that she had serious issues and made the whole thing up. The kicker is, the laws stated that even if a girl consented the whole time, then changed her mid after the fact, I still could be charged with rape. I don't know what the statute of limitations are, and with the state of gender relations it seems like it could change at any time. I have held myself back from any opportunities that would bring national attention to me -- I've been asked to be on reality television and a future in politics would be impossible.

I am completely confident that I committed no moral wrongdoing, but the way the laws are written I could have been sent to prison with a death sentence of unwanted, anally inflicted AIDS.

Disclaimer: This is a work of fiction.Any similarity to persons living or dead (unless explicitly noted) is merely coincidental.

pollusjan · 2011-03-20T19:47:34+00:00

It's the man's fault of men allow themselves to become the default perpetrators because they're too scared to stand up to women: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plkeKMTDM9g

Title	TMBR: Sex and drunkenness - always the man's fault?
Author	kloo2yoo
Upvotes	52
Comments	101
Date	March 20, 2011 3:22 PM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/g7lp4/tmbr_sex_and_drunkenness_always_the_mans_fault/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/tmbr-sex-and-drunkenness-always-the-mans-fault.1041904 https://theredarchive.com/post/1041904

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