Mothers are the perpetrators in the vast majority of child murders.

[–]shady8x[S] 19 points20 points21 points 15 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]PornoWizard 12 points13 points14 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

In our society it is common that the mother takes the role of primary care giver. It is not surprising that the number of deaths attributed to neglect or abuse would be higher in one gender over the other if there is a significant difference in the number of people in said role.

According to this article: http://moneynews.com/InvestingAnalysis/US-Census-Working-Moms/2010/01/15/id/346519

It seems as though there are 150k stay-at-home fathers out of a total of 5.3m stay-at-home parents. That is a tiny number, the article's source is the Census Bureau and I would hope it would be accurate. Even if we fiddle around with the numbers, for instance to account for both parents being stay-at-home, we would still end up with the fathers being in a minuscule minority position.

It is not surprising at all that the numbers, for deaths related to neglect and abuse, would be much higher for women.

It is also interesting to note that if we apply the numbers in the chart to the numbers in the from the census then it would seem that men, being in the minority, contribute more than they should to the deaths of children. Of course, we are not taking all instances of people caring for children into consideration but I think it would be fair to say that being a stay at home parent would likely come out on top as having the longest time in contact with a child.

Now, I am only presenting a different take on the data here. I am big supporter of what this subreddit is supposed to stand for. However, it seems to me that every once in a while there come along post that either display thinly veiled misogyny or will be grasping at straws. I do not think that this article is of the former, but I do think it is of the latter. The problem is not the data here, as it is rarely at fault, but it's interpretation. Unless I am missing something, I would say this pie chart looks worse for the fathers, rather than the mothers. The chart is not stating that a mother has a higher chance of causing the death of a child. It simply states that there are more deaths from the lack of proper care from the mother. And if we account for the fact that mother's, in our society, will tend to spend much more time with their children then it is not surprise that there is a higher chance of something bad occurring.

I agree that we, as a society, should treat both fathers and mothers equally. And I also agree, naturally, that men should not have stigma's, relating to being around children, attached to them. However, this chart does not really help push the argument in the right direction. And on some interpretations could even take it backwards.

[–]mr_bag 9 points10 points11 points 15 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 15 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mortar158 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]mr_bag 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I think what grammer_notz was getting at is that if you posit that say 60% of children are raised by 2 parents, 35% by mothers and 5% by fathers (i made these numbers up as its technically the lack of these numbers that cause the issue with resulting statistics) Then mothers have a 95% exposure to kids while fathers only a 65% one for example, which would throw the stats a little (assuming my posit is true) Equally if you assume single parenting can exacerbate such issues, the fact women do the great majority of single parenting means there exposure is even greater still.
So the criticism would essentially be, if you assumed there were an equal number of people messed up enough to commit such a horrible crime in both genders. The charted numbers then, could be explained by the fact women have a much greater window of opportunity so to speak.

Granted the above is all totally hypothetical bull shit, but i think it illustrates how the lack of the "single parent" figures in the stats could, in theory, be throwing the numbers more than it may first appear.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mortar158 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Chuymatt 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]crazyex 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]shady8x[S] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]falsehood 5 points6 points7 points 15 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Demonspawn 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]falsehood 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Demonspawn -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]falsehood -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Demonspawn 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]falsehood -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Demonspawn 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]falsehood 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Demonspawn 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Why do you think women have a higher abuse rate?

Because they're women.

No, honestly. Start reading here: http://www.psy.fsu.edu/~baumeistertice/goodaboutmen.htm

Relevant part:

The gist of our view was that there are two different ways of being social. In social psychology we tend to emphasize close, intimate relationships, and yes, perhaps women specialize in those and are better at them than men. But one can also look at being social in terms of having larger networks of shallower relationships, and on these, perhaps, men are more social than women.

So that's why I'm here arguing this point with you. Someone on the internet is wrong! ;) That's why men are more likely to become violent over what they perceive to be an injustice in society. However, when it comes to the personal sphere, women are much more likely than men to be domineering and violent. That's why rates of DV among lesbians is higher than the heterosexual rate, while DV amongst gay men is lower than the heterosexual rate.

So, is there a solution? Other than making sure that children go to the father by default, no.

[–]shady8x[S] 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Safe haven laws, women can walk away from their children without the need to pay child support. Some states allow you to drop 0-17 year olds no questions asked... The safe haven laws were passed to keep women from killing their children(though custodial fathers can use them too). According to the chart, it doesn't seem to have helped that much.

Also women get a lot of government assistance thanks to having children, to the point that some make a business of it. We all know there is a fair number of men with physical custody of the children which still pay child support to the mother. The vast majority of child support is paid to mothers, etc...

According to the US census, 46.2% of custodial fathers receive the full amount owed to them, and 47.3% of custodial mothers get the full amount owed them. Seems similar enough.

http://www.census.gov/prod/2007pubs/p60-234.pdf

And as for 'dead beat parents' 70% of those that do not pay, make less than 10,000 per year.

If feeling trapped was the reason, one would expect fathers to be doing most of the killing. (Though it is my personal theory that feeling trapped is one of the major reasons why so many men kill their wives/ex-wives)

The most likely reason for mothers killing so much more children then fathers is that thanks to our courts, mothers have more access to children than fathers.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]kloo2yoo 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]opiumcookies 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]mr_bag 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (66 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]shady8x[S] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]mr_bag 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AnnArchist 12 points13 points14 points 15 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]smapte 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]AnnArchist 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]smapte 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AnnArchist -2 points-1 points0 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 15 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]AnnArchist 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 15 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]AnnArchist -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 15 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]AnnArchist -5 points-4 points-3 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]mean0dean0 7 points8 points9 points 15 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link

[–]mr_bag 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link

[–]mean0dean0 4 points5 points6 points 15 years ago (29 children) | Copy Link

Even in your own argument, you're totally glossing over the fact that every single rape campaign focuses exclusively on male perpetrators, insinuates that being male is somehow related to "rape culture," and that men who don't rape are indirectly responsible for men who do rape. While I feel that such scare tactics are wrong, at the very least they're aimed at the category who does the most raping (men!). The only way your analogy would make sense is if we aimed rape prevention campaigns against celibate people, or at least people who don't often have sex (or control over our sexual desires) anyway. Because most men DON'T have control over their children, and most women DO have either major custody (as in, the children live with them) or full custody of their children. The analogy is otherwise useless.

[–]rantgrrl -3 points-2 points-1 points 15 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link

[–]mean0dean0 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]rantgrrl 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]mean0dean0 -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]rantgrrl -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]mean0dean0 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for the interesting links! From your first stat point:

While it is interesting that coercion and victimization are being discussed relationally to forcible rape (which does even out the stats for men and women... 2.1 and 1.6% really aren't that different), even the study itself maintains this caveat: "It is also important to note, however, that these results are correlational, and therefore, causal statements cannot be made." In other words, questionnaires on coercion don't necessarily prove or disprove the NCVS statistics on reported rapes--and coercion is much harder to prosecute as a crime, especially in the context of an adversarial relationship where the victimization might be mutual.
Your point here is compelling, but on closer examination of the figures in Table 7, there twice as many staff-related victimizations at male-only facilities, and even then the victimization rates are only 11.5% of the total sample inmate population. Mixed facilities are reporting 7.5%, and female-only facilities 5%. Also, within mixed facilities, female workers comprise 42% of the staff, but males comprise 92% of the inmates; while this alone does not excuse any sexual victimization of minors, the social acceptance of older women victimizing young boys (and the socialized complicity of young boys in their own victimization) does muddy the interpretation of these stats a bit.
Again, not to excuse sexual victimization, but the sexualization of heterosexual victimization between female prison guards and male inmates are far more acceptable social interactions than the largely transgressive notions of sexual victimization of male guards on other males. While I am heartened to see that rates for male-guard/female-inmate victimizations are lower than the converse for female guards and male inmates, I still question how much traditional societal expectations of male virility and female sexuality come into play in these scenarios, much in the same way Mary Kay Letourneau has recast her sexual victimization of Vili Fualaau as a "love affair" that continues to be the rationale of female predators today.
You're focusing on one stat and not the other here: "Both men and women sexually exploit youth. Although the majority of youth (70%) had been exploited by males, half of youth (50%) had also been exploited by females." This not only implies that some were exploited by both men and women, but that you're only focusing on the female-only exploitation to the detriment of the male exploitation of young boys--which thankfully has not produced the same sort of "Letourneau effect" (or, more recently, the Bacha bazi effect) that pervades female sexual predation on young boys.

If women's emotionalization of predatory child molestation wasn't so socially acceptable, maybe more men WOULD report this victimization to the police; but as it stands, there is a downward social pressure on these sorts of behaviors and an upward social pressure to be receptive to predatory attacks on vulnerable men and boys by women in positions of power.

[–]Mortar158 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]rantgrrl -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago* (15 children) | Copy Link

Okay, okay... then I'd really like to get your opinion on these stats:

2.1% of men reported forced vaginal sex compared to 1.6% of women in a relationship in the previous year. From: Predictors of Sexual Coersion.
94% of sexually abused youth in correctional facilities reported being abused by female staff. From Sexual Victimization in Juvenile Facilities, 2008-09
Among inmates reporting staff sexual misconduct, ~ 65% reported a female aggressor. From Sexual Victimization in Prisons and Jails Reported by Inmates, 2008-09
50% of homeless youth reported being sexually abused by a female. From It’s Not What You Think: Sexually Exploited Youth in British Columbia

From the report on inmates, here are a few highlights:

Female inmates in prison (4.7%) or jail (3.1%) were more than twice as likely as male inmates in prison (1.9%) or jail (1.3%) to report experiencing inmate- on-inmate sexual victimization.
Sexual activity with facility staff was reported by 2.9% of male prisoners and 2.1% of male jail inmates, compared to 2.1% of female prisoners and 1.5% of female jail inmates.

So, if you believe women rape less then men does that make you a misandrist or a moron?

[–]sunny6 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

How is your use of statistics any more valid then anyone elses? Sexual violence is a terrible thing no matter what the gender of the perpetrator. However globally it's pretty inarguable that males tend to be more likely to rape. And I'm not in any way saying that most men do, just that it's more likely. Here are some stats from the national instuite of justice, regarding only the US, so not even high rape areas such as Uganda and other regions of Africa.

Women are more likely to be victims of sexual violence than are men. The National Violence Against Women Survey (NVAWS) sampled 8,000 women and 8,000 men and found that 1 in 6 women (17 percent) and 1 in 33 men (3 percent) reported experiencing an attempted or completed rape at some time in their lives. [3]

Women are significantly more likely than men to be injured during an assault. In one NIJ-funded study, 31.5 percent of female rape victims, compared with 16.1 percent of male rape victims, reported being injured during their most recent rape. [4]

More recently, the Campus Sexual Assault (CSA) Study found 13.7% of undergraduate women had been victims of at least one completed sexual assault since entering college: 4.7% were victims of physically forced sexual assault; 7.8% of women were sexually assaulted when they were incapacitated after voluntarily consuming drugs, alcohol or both; and 0.6% were sexually assaulted when they were incapacitated after having been given a drug without their knowledge. [8]

Additionally, a national-level study on drug-facilitated, incapacitated, and forcible rape, that included a sample of college women, found that approximately 673,000 of nearly 6 million current college women (11.5%) have ever been raped. Of those, approximately twelve percent were reported to law enforcement. [9]- (Demonstrating women are also unlikely to report sexual crimes)

See also NIJ's topic pages on Sexual Assault on Campus.

Sexual assault in intimate partner relationships. The few studies that measure sexual assault separately from physical assault within intimate partner relationships report that 40 to 50 percent of battered women are also sexually assaulted by their partners.[10], [11], [12] In another study, researchers found that 68 percent of physically abused women reported that their partners sexually assaulted them. [13]

Just some food for thought, and this is not to say I don't trust men it's just I'm a nurse that works in a rape trauma clinic and I do see both men and women, boys and girls. And although for children the numbers are pretty similar, I know disgusting, for adults is vastly female victims.

[–]rantgrrl 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

Alright. Cracks knuckles

[1] NVAWS survey had a number of major problems when it comes to capturing female-on-male sexual victimization.

They omitted forced vaginal to oral contact.
The omitted forced vaginal envelopment.
The questions used were extremely prejudicial due to wording choices that made it obvious they were intended to capture female victimization.
Many(maybe all) male respondents were not interviewed by male interviewers; in other studies this has been correlated with lower reports of female-on-male sexual violence.
The NVAWS used the same survey instrument--CST2--as the International Dating Violence Survey I cited in my first link. Except for the changes to the sexual violence questions I've noted above. The IDVS survey included the categories of sexual violence excluded by the NVAWS and found near parity in the sexual violence experienced by males and females in heterosexual relationships.

[4]. That's interesting because I've seen stats from the DOJ that suggest males are more likely to be injured and more likely to be gang raped.

[8], [9],[10],[11],[12], [13]. No comparison stats for male victimization so these studies are irrelevant.

Just some food for thought

Not really. I already know there is a huge push to fetishize the victimhood of women.

Personally I don't care for it. In fact I think it's criminal, since it's responsible for much of the under-reporting of male victims. (Some estimates put it at 1 in 200 to 1 in 1000 male victims actually tell anyone.)

However globally it's pretty inarguable that males tend to be more likely to rape.

Globally? The only survey that comes close to a global view of sexual assault is the one in my first cite, the IDVS survey. And it found parity.

for adults is vastly female victims.

Right. You have offered one statistic to support your claim. One statistic that used a survey instrument that basically excluded most forms of female-on-male sexual violence and still found a non-negligable rate of male victimization.

Try again.

[–]sunny6 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

I was talking about my work as for who I see come into the clinic more, when a referenced adult victims, and you only use studies that support your arguments it was for debate, which clearly you have to much anger to engage in. I'm not against men I'm for human rights, clearly you are not. I do not know where your deep routed resentment for females comes in, but your unable to be educated because of your strong biases. I was under the impression you could perhaps have been a rationale human being so I was just making alterative claims to yours, clearly I misunderstood. It's a tragedy when anyone is sexual assaulted by anyone, and as far as who sustains more injuries on the global scale I can site about a thousand other studies. Anyways wasting my time, you're too psychologically damaged.

[–]Mortar158 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]rantgrrl 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]shady8x[S] 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]mr_bag 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]shady8x[S] 5 points6 points7 points 15 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]mr_bag 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Just like among the male gender, there are quite a few among the female gender that indeed do horrible things.

I don't argue that. What i would claim though, is that certain people painting men as villains has caused terrible repercussions for men everywhere. What advantage is there to sinking to the same level and trying to paint women as the villains too. Why not take the high ground and focusing on fixing the damage such people have done instead.

Since men are characterized as the bad, dangerous gender which is a danger to children throughout our society and the women are often (especially in family court) characterized as the helpless victims. It is very much related to Mens Rights to post information that points out that men are not the bogeymen that all of society should fear... That we are all just people and that no one gender or group is responsible for all or most of societies ills.

I can definitely see where your coming from with this "/ I just feel that the context-less post seemed to open to interpretation of it just being a "look women do bad stuff" one. I'll admit though i made this judgement before your own posting in here, which did go on to clarify a lot of that kinda stuff.

[–]shady8x[S] 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]mr_bag 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]kloo2yoo[M] 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]mr_bag 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]kloo2yoo 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SarahC 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]kloo2yoo[M] 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]mr_bag 5 points6 points7 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]kloo2yoo 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]getter1 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]fidelbogen 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]InfinitelyThirsting -4 points-3 points-2 points 15 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]AntiFeministMedia 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]rantgrrl 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]InfinitelyThirsting 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

No. Mothers can be more dangerous to their children, because of biological imbalances. Any parent who kills their child in cold blood is evil. A rather rare psychological imbalance in some new mothers does not make all mothers evil, is what I meant to imply with that. The mothers who are legit crazy are still guilty, but they are/were crazy, not evil.

But people need to keep an eye on new mothers. I know my mother had serious postpartum issues, that were never addressed because people still didn't really know what it was at the time. I was five when my sister was born, so I well remember the first few years after she was born. Not murderous psychosis, but abuse. And while I don't have my mother's other psychological issues, you can bet your ass that as soon as I'm pregnant I will be in seeing a psychiatrist, and have warned the father, just in case I inherited that, so I can fix it.

There's always signs, as far as I can tell. The murderous rage doesn't come out of nowhere. There have been fathers who tried to warn the court, and I remember at least one case where the court had actually told the father not to leave the mother alone with the child. I don't remember the details. But yeah, postpartum psychosis is something that is, as far as I know from first hand experience and articles about it, something that is apparent beforehand. Which should help weed out the people trying to cover it up.

Just like a soldier with PTSD isn't fully responsible for something he may do because of a flashback or something, mothers sometimes have postpartum psychosis. It's something we need to be aware of as a society, to keep an eye on new moms (without judging them all guilty ahead of time), because it's something that is beyond their control if they aren't aware of it ahead of time.

[–]shady8x[S] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]rantgrrl 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]mr_bag 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]shady8x[S] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Not alone, though. Both parents are responsible more often than fathers alone, though less often than mothers alone

Mother is a perpetrator 61.3% of the time. 38.9% with the father not involved.

Father is a perpetrator 37% of the time. 14.6% with the mother not involved.

, but that doesn't exculpate the father involved there.

Obviously not.

It's a good chart to have and a good statistic to use. Though it'd be handy if it separated between infanticide and kids above toddler age. It's well known that mothers often commit infanticide, and it's a hard case to judge because of postpartum hormonal issues (by which I do not mean mothers are not guilty, but rather mothers are not evil). It'd also be nice if the non-parental bit was a bit more clear--what percentage step-parents, what percentage female relatives, what percentage male relatives, what percentage strangers by gender, etc.

There is more info here http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/pubs/cm06/chapter4.htm

It's well known that mothers often commit infanticide, and it's a hard case to judge because of postpartum hormonal issues (by which I do not mean mothers are not guilty, but rather mothers are not evil).

Actually I recently read about an interesting study on that exact subject."People who commit filicide, the killing of their own child, are no more psychotically disordered than other homicide offenders."

[–]fondueguy 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]TicTokCroc -7 points-6 points-5 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]crazyex 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]TicTokCroc -3 points-2 points-1 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]crazyex 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]nanomagnetic -4 points-3 points-2 points 15 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]shady8x[S] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]nanomagnetic 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]shady8x[S] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]nanomagnetic 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]shady8x[S] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]nanomagnetic -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]shady8x[S] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]nanomagnetic -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]shady8x[S] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]nanomagnetic -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	Mothers are the perpetrators in the vast majority of child murders.
Author	shady8x
Upvotes	92
Comments	98
Date	February 19, 2011 10:15 PM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/foouc/mothers_are_the_perpetrators_in_the_vast_majority/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/mothers-are-the-perpetrators-in-the-vast-majority.1042940 https://theredarchive.com/post/1042940

Comments