CMV: Men and women are not the problem. Manipulative Time-wasters are the problem

Mrs_Drgree · 2021-08-20T10:23:38+00:00

Roved for OP abandonment

WilliamWyattD · 2021-08-20T05:17:26+00:00

I disagree. These are all symptoms.

There are biological differences between men and women, but they are culturally mediated to a large extent. There is not necessarily one sustainable cultural model for those differences to manifest in. However, all cultural equilibriums have needed some degree of cultural enforcement to maintain them.

The problem is that we no longer have a consensus on a sustainable cultural gender model, or sufficient cultural enforcement to maintain it. Without that, you get all kinds of dysfunctional symptoms, including excessive time wasters. Humans are not built to reinvent the wheel for every type of social interaction by themselves. They need cultural support.

Crusty_Jizzsock · 2021-08-20T05:15:37+00:00

Manipulative time wasters are just one aspect among many many problems that can exist in both genders.

FDS and TRP exist to get themselves the best deal. I don't think many men get into TRP from manipulative time wasters. They get into it because they've been cheated on, been surprised dumped/divorced, or they're incels and feel like they're invisible.

PsychologicalUnit304 · 2021-08-20T07:51:48+00:00

Women pick the men they want to be with. They continue to make the same mistakes over and over. They continue to get older and think they can get the same age man as them. What you said is again complete cope because you can't handle the reality that not all women are wonderful. 60 years plus of hearing all men are trash and the best women have gotten is an increase in single motherhood, std's and divorce rape. This is all done after women gained their 'freedom', free from the protection of men and now you're trying to lay the blame equally on both sexes when it's obvious men live women and want them while women continue to spurn and demonise men on a societal wide scale, withhold their youth and beauty to the men they're going to marry and then attempt to pass off a broken down body that costs a lot in medical bills to a man that will never experience the best he can from a woman because she lost everything he desired in the first place.

All of these posts trying to lay the blame at mens door under the guise of "equally to blame" is just severe cope when it's obvious that men are being shafted on a massive scale in this society to such a point that they just stop trying to get women while women are still trying to get men. Fds advocates on how to finesse a high value man out of his time and money but the male reaction is to go away from women. There's nothing equally to blame in any of these situations but again you keep banging on the same dead horse over and over again just like people keep lying about the wage gap when it's been debunked over and over again. Cope of the highest level because white knights think appeasing women and soothing their ego is going to get them something.

EstablishmentKooky50 · 2021-08-20T06:02:33+00:00

These manipulative time-wasters are why you see men and women at each other's throats.

I think it's third wawe feminist memes (toxic masculinity, patriarchic oppression, men privilege, wage gap etc...) and entitlement that turned the genders against each other, with the help of social media and pop culture of course. Allowing women to victimize themselves while picturing men as evil abusers or bumbling idiots, took a toll on society. The fact that we do not need each other any more, didn't help either, not to mention the gynocentric social order we live in, in which emotions are somehow equal to objective reality.

Jerks were always present on both sides, but the issue has never threatened the integrity of the society like this before.

Insidious-Sid · 2021-08-20T05:02:23+00:00

You can be the most hardcore TRP dude, but can you really blame women for being fed up with men who manipulate them and waste their time?

You mean before they can start filling their bank accounts and buying red bottom shoes?

Yeah, life's a bitch when it takes to long to milk the man.

CoyoteCookies · 2021-08-20T05:55:40+00:00

From an FDS perspective, I largely agree, though there’s a larger emphasis on avoiding abuse in particular.

Personally, FDS values helped me to be more confident while dating and while establishing my current relationship. It helped me to see the green flags too and to be able to differentiate what’s going right vs. what I put up with in past relationships. It got me over a lot of “but is this really what I think it is?” Nerves.

You’re the only person fully responsible for yourself, so you should be responsible for making the right decisions in life. It’s never your fault for being treated badly, but it’s in your favor to pull away from people who treat you badly. Therefore, I think people should strategize to weed out people who aren’t compatible and close to perfect or who won’t return the same effort and passion.

superlurkage · 2021-08-20T08:02:42+00:00

Nah, the problem is that people want guarantees, that doing X will mean Y. That’s why they become angry when X doesn’t lead to Y

However, we don’t have capacity or will to police intentions or choices

AntifaSuperSwoledier · 2021-08-20T09:59:17+00:00

One reason TRP blew up is because men were tired of dealing with manipulative time-wasting women, who feign interest to extract attention, resources and status.

fake interest to get free dinner dates, to women child-support trapping and/or divorce raping wealthy men

I'm not sure how many TRP men this describes since TRP seems mostly to attract people who didn't have a lot of dating experience. Like it's mostly young dudes, not post-divorce men.

Do you think TRP and FDS provide the tools to reduce the amount of manipulative time-wasting going on or do they actually exacerbate the problem?

I think both do filter people out. Enough people said in a recent post "TRP is a sexual strategy, not a relationship strategy" that it's safe to say TRP doesn't give you the tools for a real relationship. If you're only pursuing women who are DTF outside of a relationship then it goes without saying what kind of women you are going to attract. TRP pretty consistently has poor experiences with low class women.

FDS seems really well designed to weed out most men. Basically anyone who isn't a low libido simp. This is going to be very effective at weeding out TRP men and normal men of all kinds. Does it work to actually attract the kind of man they want? I think that's more dubious. Even if you're a low libido simp you can simp for someone more pleasant to be around.

You can conceptualize both strategies in the context of Type 1 and Type 2 errors. How many desirable people do you miss out on vs how many do you attract. FDS at least seems like it would have a high false positive rate for red flags and weeding out perfectly desirable people. I think most of the FDS women kind of know that too and are happy nonetheless with weeding everyone out since they are afraid of bad outcomes.

do they actually exacerbate the problem

FDS and TRP both normalize antisocial behavior. The former is just classic gold-digging and sees men as resources to be used. TRP says "enjoy the decline" as if society were in some kind collapse because Stacy fucked Chad in high school and not them. Both are defined less their actual strategy and more by an ideological dislike of the opposite sex: misandry or misogyny. TRP at least serves as a gateway to more extreme communities like MGTOW/incls that have been associated with mass murders. FDS occasionally has a "I got married" post or something but I never see any positive long term outcomes from TRP. Older men in TRP communities all seem to be MGTOW which shows how poorly it really works long term.

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JB8511R · 2021-08-20T10:11:23+00:00

Our society has made misleading people a completely legitimate sexual strategy and tbh, the only reliably successful sexual strategy. Congratulations, look at the world you’ve created. I used to try to stand alone and fight against it but that just made me miserable and alone so now I guess I’m just enjoying the decline

Title	CMV: Men and women are not the problem. Manipulative Time-wasters are the problem
Author	SnooSprouts1580
Upvotes	11
Comments	37
Date	August 20, 2021 4:48 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/p7vbjd/cmv_men_and_women_are_not_the_problem/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-men-and-women-are-not-the-problem-manipulative.1059011 https://theredarchive.com/post/1059011

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