Examining the pithy quip, "when you're used to privilege, equality feels like oppression"

goldenjuniper · 2020-08-30T01:30:17+00:00

If we are to accept the feminist claim that male privilege is defined as "freedom from gender-based discrimination", then "removing" this privilege would mean introducing active and intentional anti-male discrimination.

a-man-from-earth · 2020-08-30T01:51:28+00:00

To me it feels more like projection.

Oncefa2 · 2020-08-30T02:11:24+00:00

This actually originated as a statement about women, not men.

Feminists have tried to appropriate it for their own usage but that's not the context that spawned this saying.

Blauwpetje · 2020-08-30T08:20:40+00:00

It is just such a vacuous slogan as 'Feminism is the radical idea that women are human too' or 'Men are afraid women laugh about them, women are afraid men kill them' or 'Sluts are shamed for doing what all men do'. Shot around as if they were deadly bullets, while being nothing more than lumps of mud at a closer look. The worst of it is, indeed, the smug way they're expressed: as if there is some very funny genius talking. Not worthwhile wasting your time on.

ParanoidAgnostic · 2020-08-30T01:58:33+00:00

It's utterly stupid because men are not comparing their current treatment to how men were treated in the past. They are comparing their current treatment to the current treatment of women and noticing that there is an imbalance and it is not in their favor.

AskingToFeminists · 2020-08-30T06:18:29+00:00

Is there any truth to the statement in itself? Probably.

Are they applying it correctly? Usually, they aren't.

The only way this could make any sense even in the feminist worldview would be if men were a hive-mind, sharing the memory of "those men in the past" who they imagine were having all those privileges, so that the men aged 20 can be "missing the good old days when you could treat your wife as chatle, you know, a few millenia back if that was ever the case" (sarcasm).

They also never reflect at how it is a double edge sword, this statement. If privilege is invisible to those who have it, and loosing it feels like oppression, how can you be sure that the oppression you feel is not due to loosing your privileges? Is it because it doesn't feel like you are just protesting over a lost privilege? That's the whole point. Is it because all your friends who are in the same class feel the same? Well, since they are loosing that privilege too, of course they would, if the statement holds true.

To me, this statements feels a tad bit too unfalsifiable for my own comfort. It reeks of standpoint theory. And while it sound plausible enough, it seems clear that it should be possible to objectively differentiate between things like feeling oppressed by slavery and feeling oppressed because you can no longer jail the peasants just on a whim as a noble.

But all of this require some ability to self examinate, self doubt, think critically and put yourself in other people's shoes. All sorts of things that feminist scholars have rejected as patriarchal constructs. So I am not surprised.

Vilokys · 2020-08-30T01:32:30+00:00

With feminism, I lost my tranquility. Does that count as priviledge ?

amjh · 2020-08-30T07:58:26+00:00

There are other situations the statement gets used where it's more fitting.

Members of the local majority religion often have special privileges when it comes to public displays and teaching their beliefs, and tend to get upset if held to same standards as other religions or atheism.

Wealthy, upper class people sometimes get upset if laws are applied to them the same as middle class people.

PrincessofPatriarchy · 2020-08-30T14:48:31+00:00

The argument being made isn't that men are losing privileges, just that other people are gaining privileges and becoming equal to them. And the quip is that when those once privileged people become equal with minorities they think they are the ones being oppressed.

If you feel like you can hold hands with your partner in public without people getting offended by it, or that you can get married to someone you love without controversy, then people would say you have straight privilege because gay people still face prejudice and discrimination.

I have definitely seen some people claim that "straight marriage" or "Christian marriage" is "under attack" simply because of marriage equality and perhaps such a quote would be fitting there. Usually, when feminists apply it to men's issues they're just trying to dismiss an argument without having to address it.

I often think it's more effective to frame discussions of privilege as simply a discussion of disadvantages. Most people would not argue the fact that gay couples face unique disadvantages because of homophobia. But people will often react better towards being told "gay couples often face prejudice" than they react to being told, "check your straight privilege!"

A common example of what feminists would call male privilege would be the fear of rape. Women report fearing rape more than any other crime and often change their day to day behavior to accommodate that fear. So, if a man feels comfortable walking down the street at night or not constantly watching his drink at a bar that is "male privilege" because men don't report fear of rape interfering in their lives as much as women.

I don't even think most people would disagree that women, on average, adjust more of their daily behavior due to fear of rape in comparison to men. But it still sounds more efficient to say "women's fear of rape negatively impacts portions of their lives" than it does to say "you have male privilege."

A good reputation may be: "men are the primary victims of violent crime. Even if we don't fear rape specifically, that does not mean we feel completely safe walking down a dark street at night."

I found a list on Every Day Feminism listing off various "male privileges" but if you look, many of them have other sides to them. Take this example:

You’re more likely to be congratulated for having lots of sex, rather than shamed for it or called a “slut.”

https://everydayfeminism.com/2016/02/160-examples-of-male-privilege/

This is true, but men are more often expected to have lots of sex and are more likely to be virgin shamed than slut-shamed. Women are expected to be chaste and men are expected to be the opposite. Both of these are forced roles, with built-in insults and consequences for those who do not tow the line.

You’re less likely to be blamed for your own sexual assault based on what you were wearing.

But you are more likely to be blamed for your own sexual assault based on the fact that you had an erection, or that you were overpowered in the first place. This isn't really a "privilege", it's just that men and women are blamed for their own assaults for different reasons. Unless this person is willing to call it a "female privilege" that women are less likely to be blamed for their own assault because they were overpowered, or because they were aroused, then this is a ridiculous example of "privilege".

It's far more effective to address the specific privilege that is being alleged and refute it than it is to make generic statements like "women are the most privileged" or "privilege doesn't exist" Many feminists have felt comfortable defining what men's lives and experiences are like without considering their perspectives. And that's a weakness within their privilege argument. They saw that men fear rape less than women and stopped there, concluding that men always feel safe. They saw that men rarely get slut-shamed and stopped there, assuming men don't face sexual pressures and expectations. Many of their examples of male privilege are weak and it can be effective to make sure that an actual male perspective is provided rather than an assumed one.

VertuseAlet · 2020-08-30T12:53:50+00:00

We need to up our game. Because there are a lot of smart feminists out there. And if you're not ready for the strongest arguments, then you're never going to be able to leave the echochamber.

Privileges that I imagine that feminists would claim that men have lost and "are the reason why men become MRA's":

- Sexually harass women with impunity

- Rape women with impunity

- Get promoted to managerial position despite there being a more capable woman for the job

- Social and intellectual encouragement towards lucrative careers.

- Controlling the financial assets in a marriage

- Social expectations of subservience from women towards men

- And much more, I'm sure...

So, yes, feminists do have lots of things they can claim as unfair privileges that men have lost and are trying to get back with the Men's Rights Movement.

Is there a large segment of the MRM that's seeks to acquire these privileges for men? YES, 100% yes there are. That's why I'm on here "LeftWingMaleAdvocates" where I hope we can chase those people off. Because they are not the way forward they are only the way backwards.

You might want to tell me "but I don't seen barely any MRA's trying to gain these privileges". Not explicitly no, but you can tell by what they prioritize and how they make their points that this is what many of them are hoping to get.

Our position cannot be, aw geez those feminists are total lunatics for thinking anyone in the MRM would be trying to place men in a position of privilege. Because it's not a tenable position.

And depending on the social environment. Some of these privileges are a real and present threat to women.

BUT, the reality is that in most social environments today, all those privileges I listed, are privileges overwhelmingly enjoyed by women, not men. This is something that we need to evangelize towards those who are on the fence, but if in our own spaces we refuse to understand the strength of feminist arguments, then we're not going to be able to counter them effectively.

The answer is: "oppression feels like oppression too" And then you list the oppression men face.

excess_inquisitivity · 2020-08-30T01:46:53+00:00

Who originated that quote?

Title	Examining the pithy quip, "when you're used to privilege, equality feels like oppression"
Author	goldenjuniper
Upvotes	67
Comments	37
Date	August 30, 2020 1:22 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/ij48g9/examining_the_pithy_quip_when_youre_used_to/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/examining-the-pithy-quip-when-youre-used-to.1062890 https://theredarchive.com/post/1062890

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