Redpillers say women are not oppressed and the patriarchy doesn't exist. Are women oppressed in America?

Nomadic_87 · 2023-03-18T14:17:41+00:00

Are things significantly better than what it used to be? Yes. Are there still major issues that need to be addressed, discussions to be had, and rights at risk of being taken that need to be protected? Also yes. Recent developments have proven this

xvszero · 2023-03-18T18:37:02+00:00

On paper, there aren't a lot of laws left that specifically single out women to screw over, though there are still a few that definitely have that result (access to birth control, abortion, etc.)

But the real world isn't on paper. When people say things like "but discrimination is against the law!" well, so is theft, but you probably lock your doors at night anyway, no? Because you know that the real world includes lawbreakers. And in the real world, stuff like this still happens:

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2019/06/07/new-study-finds-discrimination-against-women-and-racial-minorities-hiring-sciences

https://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/article/1747027/women-less-likely-to-be-promoted-after-having-children

Etc.

Anecdotally, I worked at a tech company where my boss just openly told us that he didn't think he would ever hire a woman because she wouldn't "fit in", and he said this right after making a super sexist "joke" about women. HOLY SHIT, BUT ISN'T THAT ILLEGAL? Well yeah, and he did it anyway. And I know people reported him for this (and his blatant open racism, and so on), and I know basically nothing happened to him for years and when it finally did, all that happened was he was moved to head of a different department.

And yes, except for a few people who were there before I started (possibly hired by a different boss, I have no idea), in the 9 years that I worked for him, we hired probably loosely 30 employees... and every single one of them was a white man. Every single one.

"But what if they were just the best people for the job!"

Statistically unlikely but here is another story... I helped him with interviews a lot, and after one round of interviews he asked me who the best candidate was. And I told him. This guy, who had a great background in networking, interviewed super well, basically exactly what we were looking for. And happened to be black. And my boss literally said, no shit, "I don't think the owners would want to give a black man access to our servers." So he hired a less qualified white guy instead.

Life in the real world is different than life on paper. In the real world, there is still a lot of oppression.

Exis007 · 2023-03-18T13:28:21+00:00

So, this framing of the question kind of sucks. By asking it this way, you've made it a binary. You are oppressed or you are not. That's not really how it works.

When you want to talk about toxic ideologies and systemic injustice, you almost have to think about it like soup. If you are born in the US, you are born into a soup of ideologies that existed before you were born, that will probably exist after you are dead, and they are infused in you and everything and everyone else. Homophobia, transphobia, patriarchy, systemic racism, ableism, capitalism, so on and so forth...all elements of the soup. Everyone is touched by it because it infuses your media and your laws and your history and your housing policy and your school board. It's kind of omnipresent.

That being said, not everyone is having the same experience. I was raised by two atheist bartenders. I did not have the same experience of the patriarchy as someone who was raised evangelical and knee-deep in purity culture. We are both in a patriarchal soup, but we're not having the same experience of that. If you're a man raised in the soup, you are also raised in patriarchy but you're not having the same experience of it as women are. Identity, your body, geography, culture, socio-economic background, and a thousand other factors I don't have time to list are all going to change how that soup impacts your life.

It's not a question as to if you're oppressed. You are, I promise. It's a question of how, and in what ways, and what kind of limitations that oppression has put on you personally, which is an inventory you have to do for yourself. There's no one universal experience of oppression felt by women, because women are not just women. They are able-bodied women or trans women or gay women or black women or women raised in the FLDS or women raised by soccer moms in Minnesota. Everyone exists at the intersection of a complex series of identities. This applies just as fervently to men. Men aren't having an amazing time under patriarchy! This isn't here for the "benefit" of your average dude. Men are pretty miserable too, and also caught at the intersection of several complex identities that transform, amplify, and undermine oppression. Just like everyone else. How much it is individually denigrating your life, you and you in particular is--again--a deeply personal question. And there's not going to be one uniform answer for men any more than there's one uniform answer for women.

As far as I can suss out, it's not that redpillers don't believe in the patriarchy. They certainly aren't using the language, but they philosophically believe in its existence. Where they go in another direction is they believe it is hardwired via biological essentialism. The male body is "meant to be" a certain way and that body demands behaviors, attitudes, and and discipline to be successful. There's a right way to be a man, not because we believe it philosophically to be correct, but because your biology demands it. Women's biology demands it of you, because there's a right way to be a woman too. If you just understand the biological imperative you're operating under, you'll be romantically, socially, and financially successful. If you just embrace your 'ideal masculinity' you'll attract women who are either embracing their ideal femininity (or who will be willing to do so upon meeting you) and everything will be in balance. And baby...that's patriarchy! More specifically, it's more of the 19th Century version of it, which makes sense because a lot of the OG redpill content (I honestly don't know if they were still using it now, but they were) referred back to a lot of 19th-century writers. The 19th C. was all about locating the body as the central hub. People believed in phrenology for exactly this reason. Now, it clashes with most modern understandings of what patriarchy is because most right-thinking people have long ago left behind the idea of biological essentialism explaining fuck all. Most people agree that social order is constructed and a complex genealogy of ideas and history and law and media. It's not written in your DNA, it's replicated and reproduced socially by people who were raised in it and thus repeat it in their own lives. So when we say the red pill doesn't believe in patriarchy, what we really mean is that they don't believe in the social construction of it, not the basic premise. And they don't believe it is oppression, they believe it is a state of nature and an inescapable biological construct. But to me, that's just playing some word games with the same basic idea, it's not an actual rejection of the premise. They would agree with a lot of patriarchy and be behind the ides, but for the concept that it is socially constructed instead of biologically constructed, which to me is a very minor distinction.

Mean_Mechanic9889 · 2023-03-18T18:12:21+00:00

Its nuanced. The fact that a redpill movements exist and have managed to be in the mainstream shows there's some harshness to woman on a societal level,

There's not specific laws oppressing woman overall. Although some are abit iffy. There's some iffy laws for men aswell. Its a tough target for fairness.

But the backlash for woman having equal rights ish. Look at redpill itself. Ironically redpill proves the oposite of its points by simply existing. There isn't a female equivalent trying to drag men down, In the mainstream atleast that's heard of.

Inareskai · 2023-03-18T12:43:08+00:00

Look at the abortion laws there, then you tell me.

brattcatt420 · 2023-03-18T15:18:05+00:00

I worked in IT for 3 years, a male dominated industry, and imo, yes. Sexism still exists and so does the patriarchy. It's just not as obvious, or intentional. E.g One time my whole team went out to lunch, on the company, and they forgot about me... twice. I have countless experiences like this.

I think it also depends tho on which state you live in. Once I left the very conservative and religious state I was born in, it was a night and day difference.

Banestar66 · 2023-03-18T17:13:59+00:00

Certainly in red states. Florida Republicans just admitted the bill they push would prohibit girls from discussing their periods.

waytothestriker · 2023-03-19T00:41:02+00:00

I wouldn’t say they are. Maybe in some states where the abortions laws are all over the place, but women do have authority and voice, and even more so in leadership roles throughout the world. Unless you count the Middle East, where women are seen as just a tad above pets- that’s the real oppression.

I don’t believe that there is anything a man can do that a woman can’t. And just like with race, there will be discrimination and prejudice. There will be glass ceilings where you are looked at differently (workplace, school, sports team etc), but there will also be opportunities that come up just because of your race or gender.

But there’s no unlawful oppression that requires a movement or massive protest.

baiser_vole · 2023-03-18T16:49:03+00:00

I think there’s discrimination for both genders. I think oppression may exist in certain people’s lives and in certain scenarios, but I would not say women are oppressed in society as a whole. I think in regards to the oppression point, there’s arguments for both for and against. I think the word should be discrimination.

ShityistDisciple · 2023-03-18T19:29:41+00:00

Oppression is relative to context. A small conservative community might have more public pressure that might oppress someone's honest expression of self that might be more progressive AKA if that person LGBT and so on. I have heard many stories in Canada of people facing unheard of discrimination in small towns #notall

In short, I would say no women are not oppressed

Mobile_Barber9086 · 2023-03-18T16:01:37+00:00

I kinda agree with them.women in the west has all the rights but here in middle east they have nothing

Mobile_Barber9086 · 2023-03-18T16:01:42+00:00

I kinda agree with them.women in the west has all the rights but here in middle east they have nothing

keenenandraz · 2023-03-18T14:46:27+00:00

What rights do women in the West have that men don't? How exactly are they being oppressed and by who? I have yet to hear any decent responses to questions like this, so I'm leaning no.

Title	Redpillers say women are not oppressed and the patriarchy doesn't exist. Are women oppressed in America?
Author	Valuable-Emergency27
Upvotes	6
Comments	63
Date	March 18, 2023 12:40 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/11uneoo/redpillers_say_women_are_not_oppressed_and_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/redpillers-say-women-are-not-oppressed-and-the.1180400 https://theredarchive.com/post/1180400

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