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Women cheer as Swedish man-free music festival opens

rbrockway

September 1, 2018
136 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://archive.is/pzZWX
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Post Information
Title Women cheer as Swedish man-free music festival opens
Author

rbrockway

Upvotes 136
Comments 136
Date September 1, 2018 5:31 PM UTC
(7 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/9c4wdr/women_cheer_as_swedish_manfree_music_festival/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/women-cheer-as-swedish-man-free-music-festival.1185392
https://theredarchive.com/post/1185392
Red Pill terms in post
feminism
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Comments

[–]Whatever_YouWant 58 points59 points60 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

"What do you think about us creating an awesome festival where only non-men are welcome until ALL men learn how to behave?"

Using that logic, I assume she's fine with making Sweden a country where only non-muslims are welcome until ALL muslims learn not to commit terror acts?

[–]89peters 38 points39 points40 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Until blacks learn to stop stealing they should not be welcome in stores. Until women learn to stop throwing their babies in dumpsters then custody should always go to the man.

In fact we could turn the feminist's argument on its head using the same criteria she did: women are just as likely to sexually assault men as vice versa -- men just hardly ever report it -- therefore according to her logic men would be justified in banning women from eg the workplace.

The problem with feminists is that most of them don't respond to (or possibly even understand?) rational arguments. Everything is rooted in their subjective feelings. It's like we've decided to place emotionally unstable children in charge of society. If we continue along this path things are going to go really, really badly.

[–]ckiemnstr345 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Feminists believe themselves to be rational is the issue though. They have deluded themselves through revisionist history and misleading statistics into thinking that men are evil and oppress women just by existing.

This is why they applaud all male exclusionary spaces while at the same time decrying male spaces as misogynistic.

[–]antilopes -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Police said their problem was they did not have usable descriptions, which implies only the stranger rapes were reported.

Do you think the problem would go away if we could encourage the men who get raped by strange women at festivals to report to police? Would the statistics actually be the same, and if so would women find that comforting?

I don't think dodgy statistics are behind the closure of the Bravalla mixed festival this year. The last two years had 5 and 4 rapes reported to police, and reports would be even less likely than normal because many victims would have taken illegal drugs or be drunk. The real number must be much higher. It is a worldwide problem that festivals are starting to take seriously now that victims are more likely to go public and cost the festival bookings next year. So festivals are doing things like offering a women-only camping area and providing adequately trained medical and security staff.

I don't know Sweden, it might be that mixed sex festivals just are not financially viable there at the moment.
Or it could be they are but the Bravalla outfit does not have the competence to run them, nor to work out who to hire to help them fix the problems.
Or mixed festivals can be achieved but it could not be done in time for this year.

DJ festivals are cheap. Hosting whole live bands is expensive and can easily flop catastrophically. Organisers are notorious liars so headline acts don't commit themselves until they have seen verified ticket sales are healthy.

http://aiforg.com/aifs-safer-spaces-at-festivals-campaign/

[–]ckiemnstr345 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes men should be encouraged to come forward when they are raped by women. Then maybe we can actually move forward on sexual assault as a society since it will be everyone needing to support everyone else instead of women demanding men do what they've always done and mold society to the benefit of women. Needlessly gendering issues within a society only makes resolving the issue take a lot longer since there will be one gender who will fight the steps going forward since they're either ignored or since their issue isn't taken seriously by society then why should the other gender's issue be taken seriously?

Also what you are suggesting is the equivalent to removing all economically disadvantaged people from society since they commit the majority of violent crime. It would make middle class and up safer but it wouldn't remove all instances of violent crime from a society.

[–]The_Best_01 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed.

[–]themolestedsliver 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's the thing, sexism and racism has no logic, the basis for those beliefs are ignorance and anger where people hold their assumptions higher than the specific persons they are talking about.

Generalizing qualities based on race and sex is always stupid and i found it ridiculous that the "other way around" is see as better when it is just the same thing but to a different group of people.

The horseshoe theory could be called the 2018 theory.

[–]Hadashi_blacksky 54 points55 points56 points 7 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

Feminists are basically copying ancient tribal practices that keep the two genders far apart unless they are married.

[–]89peters 54 points55 points56 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Not exactly. They are demanding women only spaces but eliminating male only spaces. Eventually men will start demanding the return of male-only spaces, and we'll be right back where we started. Feminism is proving itself to be a failed experiment.

As for the concert, unless the women had demanded female-only workers, audio engineers etc. it's nothing but a celebration of female privilege and female supremacy. Hard to believe Swedish men aren't taking them to court. I mean surely even they have their limits? The organizers are basically accusing all men of being dangerous rapists.

[–]TheImpossible1 10 points11 points12 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Can't wait for male only spaces.

[–]Hadashi_blacksky 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

We do have the men's sheds... the ones that haven't started letting the women in. Lol

[–]TheImpossible1 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Not good enough. They've set a precedent that we must follow.

Gender segregation is no longer illegal apparently.

Demand men only spaces!

[–]Hadashi_blacksky 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think men and women should have their own spaces, but that's not a knee-jerk reaction or a call for segregation. I just think that if men or women want to set up a little retreat then both should be able to and have the other gender respect that 'quiet space'. A concert just for them is too much though - that is segregation.

[–]Rethgil 13 points14 points15 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Note how theres a lot of feminist tourist traffic in this sub today trying to play this down. Its a good way to spot them. I already saw a few posting lies about other festivals they claim were 'no big deal' and the same.

[–]Hadashi_blacksky 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Fair point both of you. I don't know what they are expecting. I t must be some kind of 'thing' to get us to accept feminism. Thing is that we'd upvote those posts for verrrry different reasons than they think we would. I mean, I upvoted this one originally because I saw it as news about them doing something really shitty and slapping an equality tag on it.

[–]salbris -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I thought we're supposed to be above strawman arguments?

[–]Hadashi_blacksky 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

It's not really an argument. Just kinda something I've observed. If you google it you'll see that feminists often crack down on men-only spaces but demand women-only spaces. It's not all of then doing it, but it is a real trend.

[–]salbris 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Oh okay so useless hyperbole then.

[–]Hadashi_blacksky 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

No, it's literally what they are doing. They even want to go back to separate train carriages.

[–]salbris 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

literally what they are doing.

"feminists advocate for some private events to be exclusively for women"

Were still pretty far away from segregation.

[–]Hadashi_blacksky 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is a large open-air music festival baring an entire gender. It is not a man's shed or a woman's hobby group.

[–]v573v 13 points14 points15 points 7 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

It’s disappointing to see so many women betray the dictionary definition of feminism.

It’s also disappointing to see these people rationalize their bigotry and not be called out on it.

[–]antilopes -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

The women who set up the womens' festival are not responsible for there not being a festival that men can attend.

In previous years since 2013 there had been a festival for mixed audiences called Bravalla, but it was cancelled this year because they had four reported rapes and 23 sexual assaults the previous year and five the year before that.

Bear in mind that the people who have illegal drugs in their body or possessions, or back at their tent typically do not walk up to police to report their rape. Nor do youngies who told their parents they are somewhere else. That being the case, and rapists being thoughtful chaps, they would tend to selected those ones for rape.
So the police numbers would only be a fraction of the real number.

There will surely be mixed festivals again in future, but this year nobody wanted to put one on. Attendance had already dropped 15% the previous year and would presumably drop again after the bad publicity. Organisers said the music was becoming less important than sexual assault and lawlessness so they dropped it.

Men did not have a festival they could go to this year anyway, so the women's festival is taking nothing away from men.

[–]Hadashi_blacksky 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Hmmm... I'm not being mean, but that kinda reads as:

The white people who set up the no-black-people festival are not responsible for there not being a festival that black people can attend.

​But then again, I approve of separate spaces for genders (not races) on a smaller scale as long as they aren't super enforced. I'm wondering if my logic is sound or yours is.

​

[–]DignifiedAlpaca 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I think you are spot-on. And then next, what is to stop men from creating men-only career networking events? Or men-only office places where only men are able to interact with the higher-ups and move their way up the career ladder?

We had removed large-scale segregation from society primarily because it caused each gender to hog all of its resources largely to itself, and if we end up sliding down the slippery slope of bringing that back again, it is going to hurt everyone, including women.

[–]Hadashi_blacksky 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

That's a very good point - maybe we should define it around the harm it does or does not cause? Thanks. :) I'll think more about that.

[–]DignifiedAlpaca 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

maybe we should define it around the harm it does or does not cause?

Maybe. I mean, I am really not sure myself what to think about things like this... I personally don't like the idea of people segregating from each other like that at all, but then again, should I really be allowed to force other people not to do it? I could theoretically argue that as long as there are no double standards and all groups are allowed to do it, then it is at least consistent.

Here in the United States, the doctrine of "separate but equal" was used to justify racial segregation in the South. What usually seemed to happen though is that the minority race's spaces would end up being worse than the majority race's spaces since they didn't have as many resources to pull together to make everything nice. Of course, that was forced segregation, not voluntary.

Once segregation was ended, pulling everybody together into the same spaces meant that both sides could share in the resources that everybody had, which ended up making everybody better off in the long run. But especially the group that had less resources.

Of course, maybe I am way overreacting and actually stuff like this is never going to take off and happen on a large scale.

[–]Hadashi_blacksky 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Interesting points. I'll have a think.

[–]antilopes -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You are right, we have to think if there is a principle that could be at stake and it is important not to create precedents which will grow into problems in future.

How this sort of thing usually works is that creating segregated events for minorities is allowed, but excluding minorities is not allowed. Women used to be effectively a minority in many fields so those exclusions of women were banned by law in many cases.

Men at festivals are a majority in nearly all cases so I don't see how a case can be made for men needing special legal protection.

[–]v573v 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Or conversely, we restrict women from men and place limits on women?

[–]antilopes 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

If the women's festival is legal then someone could set up a men's festival too I guess. There could be three festivals - men's, women's and mixed. If anyone wants to make them.

Historically our society used to exclude women from a lot of areas "for their own protection" and this was deemed to be oppressive to women since it severely constrained what they could do. So one by one those jobs, sports, clubs, activities were encouraged or forced to make themselves safe for women to participate in. For example "male" workplaces were all forced to install women's toilets or mark existing toilets unisex so the cost of installing toilets or their absence was no longer a barrier to employing women.

Most men and women old enough to remember how it was see the new arrangement as very preferable overall, so creating a men-only festival would be seen as a backward step unless it had a positive reason for existing. Failing to design a safe environment is hard to sell as a positive reason.

[–]v573v 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Or there could be one festival and the craven cowards who fear a demographic of people because of the actions of a small minority within that group can face heavy criticism for their bigotry. That article is a fluff piece about the festival without any criticism, comparisons to other bigots, or uncomfortable questions asked.

[–]antilopes -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

No there can't be one festival. Bravalla or whatever they are called said "fuck this, we're sick of the male dickheads ruining everything, we are not running a festival this year". So no mixed festival. No means no.

Everyone else in the festival business had the opportunity to take over this year. They would have had their spies at previous festivals I guess, they knew what happened. All of them decided not to take it on.

A new company could have been started to run a mixed festival, but nobody did. Nobody wanted to run a festival allowing men to attend in Sweden this year.

That doesn't mean a women's festival had to occur, but as it happens someone did take the opportunity.

Women don't have to think about people who want to "give them heavy criticism for their bigotry", and quote statistics at them and demand they submit to those men's interpretation of those statistics, and demand they trust them and are a really nice guy so why dont they want to stand and listen to more uncomfortable questions. Those guys won't even be allowed into the festival, so the women can just go and dance with their friends.

If Swedish men are anything like people in this sub they will not atempt to get their shit together for next year either, so may well miss out again.

Festival safety is a worldwide problem, there is discussion about it but in all the threads on the subject in this sub there has been zero acknowledgement of that global conversation, nor of the scope and causes of the problem, nor of any of the things which are being done or proposed to improve safety. Absolutely nothing that I recall other than the occasional "they could hire more security staff". Apart from that it is just denialism and entitlement to ignore the problem. Nobody is even engaged enough to do any victim blaming. Nothing, just expecting the world to continue to provide what they expect. Festivals have a problem, it can not be fixed by bitching about "feminists".

[–]v573v 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I completely understand your position - I was around in the 80s and 90s and I’m well versed in how people use demographics to push similar agendas. I butted heads with more than one new-nazi pointing to degenerates like Weinstein and Cosby to illustrate why β€˜certain people’ are something else and should be discouraged from mixing with the pure. Around that time the city fathers decided that they’d stop listing the colour of suspects and a few short decades later it’s suddenly β€˜all men’ not just the coloured men who are a problem... Yeah... what’s the difference between you and that skin head? What’s the difference between you and those supporters of apartheid? What’s the difference between you and George Wallace pointing at Washington DC and shouting β€˜segregation forever!’ I completely understand your position but I reject it because I support equal rights and justice and I’m not susceptible to fear mongering.

[–]antilopes 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

It has been suggested Sweden has a particular problem with the behavior of Muslim refugees, which is not hard to imagine being true, and that the problem is covered up officially to reduce the ability of the large far right party to use it in elections.

I don't know what to do with that. Racial and religious bans are illegal for good reason. South Africa tried apartheid.

Segregation by pricing poor people out of the venue is practiced worldwide, there are any number of venues where the sky high prices are an attraction because they achieve socioeconomic filtering. But festival safety is a worldwide problem, US festivals don't have muslim immigrants, their $500 per weekend festivals are said to have a problem with fratboys.

A lot can be done without treating people differently, and it comes down to organisers being held to their responsibility to design a safe environment. Currently they are allowed to create public hazards in which multiple people will predictably be severely harmed. This stuff needs to be improved from the permit application stage onward. I earlier posted a link about the Woodstock '99 catastrophe that shows in detail how failure to regulate festival organisers creates tragedies. Ticket purchasers can not make an informed decision about safety because festivals keep changing even if the name stays the same.

[–]Kuato2012 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Separate but equal πŸ‘

[–]torsmork 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I have thought about this for a while, but I don't think I have yet do decide what to think of it.

On the one hand, I really hate gender discrimination. On the other hand I really want anyone to be able to create any club they want to and invite anyone they want to and be able to exclude anyone they want to.

Does anyone have any arguments that could help me decide?

I'm totally open to new or old arguments on this, albeit I think I would want a fair solution; But what would be fair in his case, I wonder...

[–]themolestedsliver 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You see, it is perfectly ok to be unsure because this is a complicated issue that bigots like to make black and white, all men need to learn to behave.

I agree i am all for creating whatever club you want, but feminists and so called "equalists" have been fighting gentlemen clubs for years and clubs that have a tradition of being men only, for swimming or whatever. There is usually no malice in these venues just "how it was" for a long time.

But in this case they creators specifically put this in place because "men need to learn to behave themselves"....yes because this venues specifically has issue with sexual assault it isn't an issue with the venues security and possible clientele it has to do with the male gender In general.

So the basis for this ban is entirely sexist in nature and uses bigoted logic to attempt to justify it, yet you don't hear similar feminist outrage.

That is the real kicker for me, pure hypocrisy on the back of "but it's against men sooooooo".

[–]Lethn 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

It's a very complicated topic and not at all clear cut, the classic one I bring up is the female hairdresser who wouldn't serve a Muslim woman wearing a hijab because the Muslim woman wouldn't remove her hijab in the presence of men.

So she had two options, either tell all the men to get lost who were her paying customers and cater to this one woman that was there and her demands. Or tell the woman to get lost because she was being unreasonable and not adapting to the society she was in like any other person would.

https://www.politico.eu/article/norway-hairdresser-fined-for-turning-away-muslim-in-hijab-merete-hodne-bryne-malika-bayan-religion-europe/

The hairdresser was fined for turning away the Muslim woman because the Muslim woman claimed discrimination. This is of course bullshit and is actually why I am against most discrimination laws, I think that freedom of association is very important and if you want to deal with discrimination it should be done through free market action by boycotting and so on rather than whinging to the authorities.

If you ask me, to try and make demands of people to obey her religion is persecution towards the country she is in and it screams of a huge amount of arrogance that she thinks she should be able to force people to do that.

[–]torsmork 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm from Norway and remember this case when it was in the news. I'm familiar with it. In that specific case, I think the court ruled the right way. I can't really remember why, but I just remember that when it was in the news there was an argument that made the hairdresser look really bad in a way that made her case not a valid case of freedom of religion 'n'stuff. Maybe I should refresh my knowledge on the case again. :)

[–]Lethn 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Well I admit I haven't looked at the case in detail but for me I don't think you should be able to force a business to go along with somebody's religious bullshit at the expense of all their other customers. To put it into perspective, it's a bit like with the issue of the bakery and making a cake for the gay wedding. People responded by pointing out if this is what people who believe in discrimination laws think is a good idea should Jews be forced to make a nazi cake.

Obviously it's an extreme example but it applies here, I make Jewellery and I'm not religious in the slightest. If a Christian comes along and asks me to make a cross out of silver or gold and I refuse should they be able to sue me for discrimination? I don't want to make religious symbols with my skills, should I be forced to do it just to keep some religious person happy even though they can go elsewhere?

This is what you're advocating for when you support racial and religious discrimination laws and hate speech and I don't think that a lot of people realise this. It's like with the whole feminism thing, feminists constantly claiming any criticism of their ideology is 'anti-women' it's all going to get abused and they're going to use it against people they don't like one by one.

[–]torsmork 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I think I agree with you on the principle. But I also see a lot of pit falls. I'll have to think more about this apparently. Thanks for the insight so far. I might have more questions later. :)

[–]Lethn 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

The important thing is to look at it from the perspective of a business, it's very easy to get dragged into the virtue signalling and say "Hey! I care about racism and religious discrimination! Of course I'll support it!" Without considering the implications.

For instance, with this type of legislation, it doesn't even need to be what I described all it could be is just "Nah, I'm not interested in making that" and then all of a sudden the business owner has a lawsuit on their hands or a fine to take care of because some twat decided to get offended.

We're very much at that point now with law making where that is an issue which is why it's better to not have these laws at all.

Edit: Independent just ran an article on this kind of thing which yet again demonstrates what I'm talking about

https://www.indy100.com/article/chrisitina-schell-osoyoos-golf-club-human-rights-british-colombia-bra-8519196

[–]rbrockway[S] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

My position is that society should permit single sex spaces on the basis of "both or neither".

The problem is that women only spaces are applaued while men only spaces are attacked (and asserted to be tools of The Patriarchy).

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I can hear them now...

"Why don't the lights work?"

"Why doesn't the sound system work?"

"Why does the music suck?"

[–]ALTSuzzxingcoh 11 points12 points13 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"Why don't the lights work?"

Because screwing in light bulbs is a metaphor for cis-nominative sex and therefore constitutes a micro aggression. Geez, get with the program!

[–]Rethgil 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I can hear their answer now...

(In screechy unison)

'Becoz der Patriarchyzz!"

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"Why don't the lights work?"

How many feminists does it take to screw in a light bulb?

Exactly.

[–]chrispyboi 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"I don't believe in complete separatism but I think it's important to have this festival right now"

Aka I disagree with sexism unless it benefits me

[–]chaircushion 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Who cares? I disagree with university female only tutorials because it disadvantages males, but this is just a concert.

If these people have a need for it, let them go nuts.

[–]The__Tren__Train 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

they will continue to cheer until they get older and lose their looks

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

By the same logic they should be more concerned with the ethnicity of attendees then gender as some groups are 20X times more likely to commit rape than others.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

This festival was a reaction against certain disturbances that happened when over 100 000 young men came to Sweden as asylum seekers in 2016-17. They came from countries where most dealings between young men and women are very much restricted. And then these, often scantily dressed women, freely moving in crowds. Perhaps something was bound to happen. And it did.

But blaming it on this cultural crash would be impossible. So, they did what is politically correct: blamed it on men.

Besides, the way they see it, it's straight white men who are their main enemies and everybody else is an ally or a potential ally. So, throwing them under the bus, so to speak, no problem!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You're correct.

[–]antilopes -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

The wars in Syria, Afghanistan etc made this sort of thing inevitable, but I saw no reference to white men or straight men. Where was that?

[–]antilopes 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Is there a problem with Afghani or Syrian women, for example, raping people excessively? I haven't seen that in statistics or even alleged.

[–]mrstickman 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I wonder who's emptying the porta-potties. Does Sweden have less of a porcelain-floor problem (that is, are there more women with dirty jobs)?

[–]antilopes 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There are a huge number of elderly care workers including in-home helpers. That gets pretty dirty.
I knew a guy who emptied portaloos, it was pretty decent money for not much more than truck driving skills and a dirty job. Unlike elderly care workers who were on close to minimum wage here for many decades until our pinky govt did a dead hand of the State thing and ordered for them to be paid a few bucks more.

[–]toblotron 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

IIRC "the problems at previous music festivals" was due to gangs of (predominantly) young immigrant men entering the free festival and groping women in the crowd. This went on unreported and undisturbed for a bunch of years, seemingly because the press did not believe it or want to report it. - For example, a retired policeman tried reporting it to a newspaper, but was ignored because "that's the kind of thing racists say"

I don't find it at all surprising that the right - wing, immigration - hostile party SD keeps continually rising in the polls, and is now one of the biggest individual parties

[–]Exitbuddy1 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Is that just a Lilith Fair?

[–]McFeely_Smackup 18 points19 points20 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

you're confusing "no men allowed" with "no men interested"

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Lilith Fair never banned male fans or male workers. BIG difference. Not only that, it was axed when the woman behind it realized it was no longer what was needed.

[–]Exitbuddy1 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

It’s a fucking joke! You know cause Lilith was really popular with women but men, not so much.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If that's your idea of a joke, you need better material!

[–]Rethgil -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

A 'joke' that a lot of feminists on other threads 'happen' to be trying to spread as if it were fact? Oh right.... interesting way to cope with being called out on bad info.

'Guys, I was just kidding...'

[–]Exitbuddy1 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Lmao what a triggered loser. I read the article you fucking dork

[–]Rethgil -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Gosh what rapier like wit! What a most brilliant and classy retort. Swiftian in its subtlety....

[–]antilopes 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

A Lilith Fair might be a much less confrontational solution to the problem, if it worked. With the audiences being maybe 20% men women reported a very different atmosphere. Harassment just didn't seem to happen, though that could be a difference in the kind of men who enjoy women musicians and don't mind being a minority.

The original huge success of 1997, 98, 99 looked like it was not going to keep working due to changes in the market so they stopped then.
The 2010 revival flopped. Five headliners pulled out because sales were weak, and they canceled a third of the dates.

[–]Rethgil -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

NO. please stop spreading that innacurate claim. It takes two seconds to check the net to know this.

[–]Exitbuddy1 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

r/wooosh

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

I wonder if they’ll have a special tent for the BatikhΓ€xor.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Search for ”Videomannen” on youtube. His videos are gold.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Man, look at all those sugar mommas, using Sweden’s massive welfare state to get their rocks off.

[–]antilopes -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Refugee men of up to 25 are being classified as "unaccompanied minors" for some reason.
People who don't want the country to take in refugees or don't approve of women doing what they want with their hair (both kinds of disapproval are often found in the same person) are outraged that women who host or interact with these "minors" sometimes get romantically involved.

NEWS: Men in their 20s often enjoy sex, and haven't tired of it by the time they get to 25. They are not necessarily being exploited.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

<<They are not necessarily being exploited.>>

They are if the women threaten to withhold services from them unless they play ball.

Even if they don’t threaten their clients in this manner, social workers take an oath not to get sexually involved with them. They’re considered a vulnerable population.

And, as I find myself saying so often these days, if the genders had been reversed...

[–]TheImpossible1 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He's a feminist sympathiser. You'll never get it though to him that women raping refugee kids is wrong.

[–]antilopes 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

It is extremely unethical for a social worker to screw a client, I'm sure that is a deregistration offense in my country and the rule would not be gendered.

I'd heard of volunteers getting involved with refugees in Europe, they might be described as "social workers" and that is obviously wrong. It would be a huge scandal if professional social workers did that and were not punished though. It would be good to read about this in a reputable news site not the far-right one linked.

If families take refugees into their homes then obviously there is going to be affairs happening and some marriages will break up, and some of this will be exploitative. It is not a new thing for people to use money and comfort to attract or exploit sexual or romantic partners, it isn't nice but once people are adults the law recognises their ability to choose.

It sounds like the main concerns here are that refugees might be happy, and that women are sometimes choosing them in preference to natives. WHY CAN'T POST-WALL WOMEN JUST LIE DOWN AND DIE ALREADY

[–]BramblEdge 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm a Swede, of course you are correct in that all the men and boys are not being exploited. But many are, either through direct threats of deportation or through their dependence on the women who run, or work at, the refugee camps.

There have also been reports about facebook groups, set up for helping lone Afghan children, being used by 'unscrupulous ladies' for offering Afghan boys food and lodgings in exchange for among other things sex. Surely this must be exploitation, and in some cases rape?

[–]antilopes 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It certainly sounds exploitative, and in some cases rape. Ethically if not legally. Wherever there are desperate people the magic of market forces will provide exploiters.

Facebook is plagued by professional shills and trolls though, it means nothing that people have made those offers unless you can verify they are real people who have control of their account.

One of the sad things I get to do is explain to the 15 year old gay kids of hardline US evangelical Christians how hard it is to live on the run without being able to use a bank account or be paid wages legally, and that their blowjob skills would quite likely be important. Boys and girls.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

<<One of the sad things I get to do is explain to the 15 year old gay kids of hardline US evangelical Christians how hard it is to live on the run>>

I think I know how you feel. I help run a support group, and I had to tell a young gay person of color that we didn’t have the resources to do anything more than listen to him after he begged me not to send him back to his violent neighborhood. That was definitely a sad day.

[–]TheImpossible1 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

Can we have man-only everything as a response?

[–]antilopes -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Sure, go ahead and organise it.

Or you could think about how you could organise a mixed festival that doesn't turn into a rape-fest. That would be fine too.

[–]themolestedsliver 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

yeah really, i love how security wasn't questioned during these times, certain repeat offenders i am sure were present and popular/rich enough to keep buying tickets, but nah all men are to blame....makes sense.

[–]antilopes 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

The only place you will see the claim all men or most men are to blame is on MRA sites.
Feminists understand women can attack men, and they know lesbian rapists exist. They just haven't observed them to be a common problem.

[–]themolestedsliver 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

The only place you will see the claim all men or most men are to blame is on MRA sites.

what are you talking about? this very post specifically talks about a festivial banning all men from attending.....did you even bother to read what this thread was based on.

Feminists understand women can attack men, and they know lesbian rapists exist. They just haven't observed them to be a common problem.

How do we know? I mean if this was such a common problem having guard and plainsclothes guards seems like an obvious choice instead of banning 1 half the of the potential people who want to attend.

[–]antilopes -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Banning men does not mean thinking most men are not innocent.

Employing more security people helps. Training them helps too, but it all cuts into the thin profit margin. So they chose to cancel instead.

[–]themolestedsliver 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Banning men does not mean thinking most men are not innocent.

How not? they literally say "men need to learn how to behave themselves" as a reason for the ban....why are you ignoring how general they are being?

Employing more security people helps. Training them helps too, but it all cuts into the thin profit margin. So they chose to cancel instead.

Denying half possible attends also cuts profits so idk where you want to go with this.

[–]antilopes 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

It is not the same festival but with half the people. It is a completely different and much smaller festival.
Different bands, different venue. Different costs (much less on security), different ticket prices. Different experience offered.

[–]themolestedsliver 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

That still bars men....what's your point?

[–]antilopes 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

The point is that one festival did not say "no more men", they said "no more festival", and that is the end of their involvement.

Then another group thought "hey, let's have a women's festival with female performers like Lilith Fair, except we will have an all female audience too".
Lilith Fair had a mixed audience and about 20% men turned up. The lack of even the lowest level of harassment was often commented on by attendees.

That worked brilliantly in the US for 3 years at the end of the 1990s. It might not work so well in Sweden today if their problem is highly motivated and organised groups of male sexual abusers, as has been alleged by anti-refugee and right wing groups. They might still turn up, though being outnumbered would put a damper on them. Or maybe they were not the main problem and simply excluding male bands would automatically create a safe environment for women. That definitely would have helped avoid the catastrophe of Woodstock 99.

The new festival seems to have an element of protest about it, and I agree with that to some extent. Sexual abuse at a festival does not normally involve just one victim and just one perp or perp group. It is usually a system involving a much larger group of friends and bystanders who choose to be passive to what they see, or choose to actively and silently move away from situations which appear abusive to others. The women-only festival sends a clear message to that enormously larger group of men that their silence has consequences.

[–]TheImpossible1 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If I wouldn't be arrested on the spot I would.

And that's easy, just keep the women away from the kids. As we've seen with Asia Argento, they have self control issues.

[–]Bloody_Rekt_Tim 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

My dudes.... I look forward to the day when the pendulum swings back. Every action results in an equal & opposite reaction, and every generation rebels against the one that came before.

In just a few years, we're going to have an entire generation of women with Mommy Issues. Today's girls will grow to see today's women as resentful, angry creatures who pushed away strong men, and they will rebel against that ideology. We will see an entire class of women who have a devoted respect for their strong, emotionally stable fathers. They will bear witness to the selfish ways their mother's behaved, and see how it hurt their fathers, and worked to create a toxic household environment.

Tomorrow's women will have a newfound respect for men who think & behave like men. I am age 33 now, so in 15 years I will be 48, hitting a new sexual prime & absolutely slaying college aged girls looking for a teacher.

Eyes on the horizon, my friends. The future looks bright!

[–]rbrockway[S] 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Today's girls will grow to see today's women as resentful, angry creatures who pushed away strong men, and they will rebel against that ideology.

I think that is already happening. There were far more young women at the March for Men in Melbourne than I would ever have expected.

[–]Bloody_Rekt_Tim 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That is great news to hear! It only makes sense, y'know? Women always want what they don't already have, and since women already have pussies, why would they want another one? haha

[–]OnlyTheRealAdvice-1 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

I think you are living in a fantasy land. Single mother households don't breed respect for men. THe children get indoctrinated at home by the mother. Then they go to primarily female only schools (female teachers) and get more indoctrinated. Lastly they go to uni and get indoctrinated and then the workplace they set through bullshit to get more.

Feminism is a HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of dollars industry. It is insane how much government is spending on this propaganda. The only thing that will stop it is a collapse of the tax payer base and of the economy.

Ultimately, feminism is a "luxury good" in society. Society can only afford to pay the cost while it is rich. The only other thing that could stop it would be a "rewriting of biological rules". The same as happened when biology was rewritten with the female birth control pill, which has profound cultural effects.

The upcoming "game changers" are realistic VR / Sex dolls and artificial wombs. Those two technologies could be a nail in the coffin for women as a whole.

[–]Bloody_Rekt_Tim 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, time will certainly tell. However, I just spoke with a 43 y/o woman last night about how she & some of the other women she knows are starved for masculine men & would like for guys to take a bit more control in social situations. That is pretty hardwired into the biology of women, regardless of the momentary social trends.

As you say, feminism is a "luxury good." If that's true, it's only a matter of time before we transition from Feast to Famine, and feminism is no longer affordable, so it's almost guaranteed to die down at some point.

As far as VR & sex dolls? That's not a nail in the coffin for women, but humanity as a whole.

[–]Lethn 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"This festival was necessary because of everything that happened during festivals last year," says the 27-year-old student with long pink hair and purple lipstick as her friends nod in agreement.

LOL! I'm really sorry because it is a pretty serious topic but at the same time :D I'm also depressed because she's a year younger than me :(

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Located inside an industrial building in Gothenburg's harbour, only female bands are performing and neither male security guards nor journalists are allowed to enter.

Am I to understand this as all the security are female, or that there are male security, who have to remain outside. Either way, as someone who's worked at many festivals, I'm curious, are the electricians, stage builders, etc., all women, too?

only female bands are performing

So, in other words, we're probably not missing a lot. Gotcha. There are many female artists whose work I enjoy, but I don't know any of the performers advertised on the website. Then again, maybe I'm just too old.

Statement, launched after raising more than 500,000 kronor (47,000 euros, $54,000 ) through crowdfunding, defines a transgender person as "a person who does not identify with the sex assigned to them at birth". This means transgender women born as men are allowed to attend.

Do they have to show security their equipment before they get admitted? I'm sure a man who really wanted to attend this event could put on makeup and a dress, call himself Janet, and defy anyone to question him.

[–]antilopes 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

It is not feasible to do gatekeeping for "genuine" trans people on the door. If you want to sneak in as trans and are prepared to put in the work to look the part then you can. In practice I have not heard of it ever being a significant problem.

It could be interesting. Get your women friends to do a gender makeover on you, spend a few weeks observing and practicing your movements and gestures, and go have fun.

There must be videos for learning about the physical skills, you can't expect to just observe all of them in the wild. Because you have spent a lifetime seeing those actions in a female context, there is probably a lot of important stuff that you are not aware of consciously.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, it's impractical. Hell, a man could even claim that he used to be a woman, and they won't be able to deny him entry.

[–]i_bust_nuts 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But what if you identify as a woman? Surely they can't deny you access right?

[–]divers69 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Using their idiotic reasoning, they should ensure that women do not take their children, as between one third and two thirds of children killed by parents are killed by mothers.

https://bmjpaedsopen.bmj.com/content/1/1/e000112#T1

[+]mystery_man_1996 -9 points-8 points-7 points 7 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

I'm confused why is feminism being advertised on a men's rights sub?

[–]budna 15 points16 points17 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Being denied access to something if you are a man, makes it a men’s rights issue.

[–]Rethgil 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Well when you've educated yourself, come back and you wont be so confused.

[–]mystery_man_1996 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Feel free to disprove me than attacking me

[–]Daemonicus 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You didn't make a point that could be disproved. When you can actually formulate a proper opinion, then you can come back and ask a question.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Look, guys, it's a dickhead!

[+]bulletholeteddy -10 points-9 points-8 points 7 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

Because feminism just means supporting womens rights not being anti male and the mens rights community is for equality if we fight for mens rights we should fight for womens rights

[–]Mythandros 14 points15 points16 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

No. Feminism has absolutely nothing to do with equality.

I support rights for everyone, but barring one gender from a festival is clear sexism.

There is nothing "equal" about this shit. It's just more feminist hypocrisy.

The organizers need to be fined heavily and prosecuted for breaking the law.

[–]mystery_man_1996 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Finally someone who agrees with me, nuff said. It's like banning all Muslims from traveling since the 9/11 instead of having extra security checks. Which in today is actually proving a point that they don't find a solution rather cause more problems. The hijack and airplane terriosm has barely any reports, now that's problem solving. Not this shit.

[–]PanderjitSingh_k -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s more the opposite of banning all Muslims. Non Muslim men at a concert would increase the safety of the females since non-Muslim men are almost universally very strongly opposed to rape. Immigration by non-jihadi Muslims on the other hand provides support and concealment for jihadis.

Mao said "The guerilla must move amongst the people as a fish swims in the sea". Non-jihadi Muslims are the sea for jihadis.

[–]antilopes -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

There is nothing "equal" about this shit.

There was never "equality" previously. It was not "equal" that women reported four rapes and 23 sexual assaults to police at last year's festival, and there were an unknown number not reported.

[–]PanderjitSingh_k -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Are you getting course credit for derailing here?

[–]antilopes 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I wrote about "equality", which is the subject he offered.

[–]McFeely_Smackup 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

because feminism just means supporting womens rights not being anti male

I can only assume from this sentence that you didn't even read the title of the linked article.

[–]bulletholeteddy -5 points-4 points-3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I did that's not feminism that's just being a dick

[–]mystery_man_1996 15 points16 points17 points 7 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

But how does having a man free music festival give equal rights? Instead of banning the sexual harassers we just decide to ban an entire gender and labal it correct?

[–]antilopes -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

How do you propose the organisers of the Bravalla festival should "ban sexual harassers"? Last years' festival had four rapes and 23 sexual assaults reported to police. Make your own guess at what was not reported.

The organisers cancelled this years' festival. Maybe they could not think of a way to make it safe and didn't want to be responsible for creating the conditions for it to happen again, or they thought the bad publicity would keep people away.

It isn't surprising that women saw the gap in festival availability and took the opportunity to make a separate one this year. Just because men don't have a festival this year doesn't mean women have to miss out too.

[–]mystery_man_1996 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

This is the same example I gave about 9/11 it's like saying one Muslim made a mistake let's ban all Muslims as a solution? It's funny because the states actually "fixed the problem" but putting more security more check ups more measures, instead of banning a whole bunch of people from one guys mistake and tell me if you hear everyday a plane is busy getting hijacked again.

If you think banning a whole gender because of a few people is the answer then your part of the problem. Life isn't rainbows and unicorns to think it's simple to fix shit by doing whatever you want.

[–]mystery_man_1996 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Keep in mind I'm the most respectable guy possible what if I wanted to join that festival? Nah bud I'm like every other guy probably to them,seems to be only they can generalize but I can't.

[–]antilopes 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The price of a ticket does not include criminal vetting and an interview with character references. It could, but they chose not to.

[–]antilopes 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sure, the longer term answer is to manage security better as is starting to be done at other festivals.

But the organisation running Bravalla has faced this problem every year since 2013. This year they effectively said "no, our customers contain an increasing proportion of antisocial jerks and dangerous criminals, the others don't keep them in line, our reputation is trashed, one of our headline acts has publicly said they will not be back, and we as a company, having failed to manage security adequately for four years, are giving up".

Festivals are not a basic human right. It can happen that no festival happens for a year or a few years. They have a life cycle, some crash in the first year or run a few years then things change.

Losing the festival for a year could be a good thing to teach the crowd that misbehavior is not part of the show and security at a big event is everybody's responsibility. Hired security can not be everywhere. The US learned that after the disgraceful crowd behavior and disgraceful mismanagement at Woodstock '99, which resulted in abandoning plans for future festivals in the series.

Just during one set, a security guy observed five women get grabbed and sexually assaulted in the mosh pit, one of which was definitely gang rape. The others were uncertain. This article has many pointers on creating a catastrophic festival:

https://music.avclub.com/part-10-1999-by-the-time-we-got-to-woodstock-99-1798224355

[+]bulletholeteddy -8 points-7 points-6 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

It doesn't what I was trying to say is where not against feminism because feminism is just supporting womens rights the feminist movement is so dumb that they made it into something no one wants to identify with except for extremists and people who don't believe in equality

[–]mystery_man_1996 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The problem with modern feminism they rather shut everything down rather than tackle the problem because it's easier. It's like why have babies rather than parenting it? Just don't have them is their answer. But yeah before they made sense with the sexual harassment that went on back in the days but now they want a spoon to feed them without effort and it drives me off the wall

[–]bulletholeteddy -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I know it makes no sense why you would make a movement that was respectable and turn it into something that's hated all over the internet and irl

[–]mystery_man_1996 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Because if the same movement were reversed let me tell you it wouldn't be this "innocent". equality

[+]kartu3 -8 points-7 points-6 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Who has downvoted this, show up, coward...

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I didn't downvote the post, but i did downvote YOU for being so childish.

[–]mwobuddy -5 points-4 points-3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I did to rustle you.

[+]Standard_Rules_Apply -6 points-5 points-4 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I down voted.

What now? Call in the Gestapo?

[–]kartu3 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Downvoting is fine, as far as you can elaborate.

[–]Standard_Rules_Apply 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

If down voting is fine, why do you label the down voter a coward?

[–]kartu3 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

level 3kartu31 point Β· 3 hours agoDownvoting is fine, as far as you can elaborate.

It's in the second part of the VERY SENTENCE YOU ARE COMMENTING ON.

[–]Standard_Rules_Apply 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

kartu3 β€’ 1d

Who has downvoted this, show up, coward...

(emphasis mine)

If down voting is fine, why did you label the down voter a coward?

[–]kartu3 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Re-read the comment you responded to.

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