Do you think we lost the ability to see nuance, and if so, why to you think that is?

leosandlattes · 2023-11-13T23:41:58+00:00

That's largely why dating advice, even red pill, will only get you so far. At some point you need to start making the decisions yourself about whether this person or relationship is good for you, even if they don't immediately tick all of the boxes. In a place like PPD, you're even less likely to get nuance. It's a debate sub; people want to be right.

ornamentalwallpaper · 2023-11-14T00:17:25+00:00

You are putting a cart before a horse. For a long time we could not even agree on the rule of thumb and would deny any data or statistics, a couple years ago we could not even decide what a "woman" is. We are barely getting over this red pill stuff. We can't talk nuance if we can't agree on a general tendency.

MidoriEgg · 2023-11-14T08:16:23+00:00

If I see one more post on there that’s like ‘Two girls have ghosted me this year. Women, why do you always ghost people?’

Hi, yes, it’s me All Women, sorry for ghosting you.

I understand we have to generalise to get any sort of discussion here, but people are only willing to deal with absaloute terms and are often unwilling to concede their experience might not to be universal. To the point where if you say ‘actually I’ve never ghosted anyone and neither have my friends’ then you’re ‘gaslighting’ them for having a different experience.

Safinated · 2023-11-13T23:33:13+00:00

No, people just try and argue to have things their way, instead of other people’s way. This is normal in life; if you don’t advocate for your own interests, who will?

Independent-Mail-227 · 2023-11-13T23:17:41+00:00

The problem is that there's no nuance to attraction, or she's attracted to you or you're going to be betaBux.

Also most of what peoples define as "nuance" is just excuses to engage in double siding.

howdoiw0rkthisthing · 2023-11-14T01:08:08+00:00

First of all, just because on paper someone has a list of wants in a partner, doesn’t mean that if they vibe with someone they’ll break it off because they’re missing one item. If that were the case no one would ever be in a toxic or abusive relationship.

Which is why guys have such a hard time understanding that they can’t follow a formula and expect it to work 100% of the time. Don’t be the guy who takes the line from Jessie’s Girl literally.

But also at least in the US it might have something to do with our current political climate. There’s been an increase in the polarization, the demonization of anyone in the middle, and the attitude that you’re either with us or against us. It’s made it hard to voice a nuanced or inconclusive opinion on anything at all.

macone235 · 2023-11-13T23:54:16+00:00

Life is a lot more black and white than people like to think. This desire for complexity is the result of a lack over information on extraneous variables, and the human need for purpose. That being said, things can get tangled, but rarely do they do they to the extent that a strong generality can't be formed.

There is not a lot of distinction between women, and there is not a lot of women who deviate much from the norm. This is our universe's power laws in action. It's nonsensical as a result to not treat women as a monolith. That doesn't mean you should not be taking note of exceptions, but you shouldn't base arguments off of them either.

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John_Oakman · 2023-11-13T23:45:54+00:00

Because most of the good folks here have been hurt by others exploiting any and all appeals for nuances to twist narratives and whatnot, and thus they revoke any and all exemptions as a defense mechanism to that.

AlysArria · 2023-11-14T01:00:53+00:00

Many people are not content to live their lives, and instead must convince others who they have deemed as wrong. Not only this, but many people keep reliving the same arguments they had years ago with new people, without trying to listen to hear.

You've likely seen this before: Person A has a stance, Person B responds, Person A responds but it's not a direct reply, it brings up unrelated new issues and Person A continues to argue against a position that's similar but not the same as Person B's position. This is because Person A once argued this very situation with someone else, and they're trapped in that paradigm.

This happens with people and groups. As you said, people view genders and others as monoliths. They don't see individual women, they recall that one woman they argued with 6 years ago that haunts them still.

As I've become more and more traditional, one of the tenets I've internalized is that I listen and seek to understand before anything else. I would rather listen to a man for several hours instead of leap into disagreeing. I want to be sure I get where they come from, otherwise I am talking with a phantom built of assumptions.

Abject_Lengthiness11 · 2023-11-14T01:39:50+00:00

Looks like you haven't lost it. Good post.

Barneysparky · 2023-11-14T02:54:20+00:00

Autistic people fail to see nuance unless they have worked hard at learning about nuance.

Autistic people make up less then 5% of the population, though I think the numbers are growing. Just weren't so many when I was young, but impossible to statistically say due to autism being a mental hospital only diagnoses.

SeveralLiterature980 · 2023-11-14T03:02:53+00:00

For example, men want these super super clear direction when life isn't really like that

It kind of is.

However, society masks truth in favor of whatever prevailing worldview curries favor, which means that it's hard to figure out what works.

Like no, have you thought about nuance

What you're describing isn't nuance. What you're describing is people adhering to the literal decimal point of their stated preferences...which no one does and no one presents themselves as doing, so you're not making a real point, you're just imagining people are operating in a way that defies common sense.

People want a one size fit all way to pick up women and if a woman falls out of whatever they expect then clearly the woman is broken or some shit. And if the man isn't her cookie cutter man then some how its his fault

There pretty much is a one-size fits all way to get women for whatever purpose you need/want them for.

But your main point, that we somehow "lost" nuance is LOL.

If anything, people today appreciate "nuance" WAY more than they used to. Do you understand that 60 years ago, people did not speak about mental health issues, did not open up about sex, and a host of well, like everything?

More importantly, nuance is something only the sophisticated appreciate and by definition the majority of people can't be sophisticated.

LillthOfBabylon · 2023-11-14T04:17:29+00:00

I feel both men and women seem very rigid and seeing things black and white.

No. Stupid people see things in black and white.

Love-Is-Selfish · 2023-11-14T07:03:12+00:00

Do you think we lost the ability to see nuance, and if so, why to you think that is?

Has there been a real change? How do you know?

I've asked women and they seem to have this cookie cutter box for men too. "My man has to be xyz" Like no, have you thought about nuance. What if he makes a dollar less than the ideal salary. What if he has a PhD but currently making a little salary but next year he could get promoted?

Do you really think that woman wouldn’t accept those? I doubt it.

You can objectively form ideals, using reason and logical inference from the senses. There’s ideal as a human being (honesty among others), ideal as a man (conquering) or a woman (surrendering) and ideal for a particular individual (like enjoying a particular movie). None of these ideals contradict each other.

Problems pop up when people don’t know what those are. They have to conceptualize, but they do it badly. Like, they try to learn what women in general want as if they are interested in dating women in general. They confuse characteristics for being an ideal human being as being for an ideal man. They don’t know what’s important. Since they don’t know how to approach it objectively, then they can’t be objective very well then it’s easy to be non-objective or irrational. Also, women’s liberation, which I completely support, has changed romance significantly. People are trying to deal with that. Some of them badly.

I put a short description for the ideal man and woman, which doesn’t explain what I mean at all really, to give an example rather than to assert that’s what it is. The point is that they exist, not that those are the right characteristics.

Cethlinnstooth · 2023-11-14T09:19:50+00:00

I think it's because we've largely stopped exposing our kids to things like parables and fables and homilies and turns of phrase that are often contradictory and really just there to get you thinking about how reality is understandable in different ways. They grow up stupid and looking for a truth they can impose when what they really should be seeking is multiple layers of understanding which act to allow the truth to become visible once observed in motion.

Mauf066 · 2023-11-14T12:16:17+00:00

This is actually one thing the "blue pill" gets right. People are very different and have different preferences, other types of -pills make the mistake of trying to find a simple explanation for billions of different people's behavior, it doesn't work that way.

obviousredflag · 2023-11-14T19:08:13+00:00

Maybe we need to bring back downvoting of bad takes instead of having all that nonsense fly around unchecked.

Maybe we need to have people without dating success or relationship/sex experience not give out advice on how to get that.

SupposedlySapiens · 2023-11-14T19:49:12+00:00

Individualism.

The past four generations, at least in the US, have been trained since birth to “never settle,” to “accept nothing but the best,” to “be their best self,” etc etc. Over time this mindset creates very disordered thinking, particularly black-and-white thinking. Every situation, every interaction, becomes a personal referendum on the self.

People have become so narcissistic that they no longer have any interest in truly understanding and empathizing with others, because it gets in the way of their obsessive focus on themselves. It’s much easier to just put an entire group of people in one box and then go back to complaining about how unfairly that group of people treats you. A woman cheated on you? Now all women are cheaters. A man was disrespectful to you? Now all men are assholes.

Understanding and appreciating nuance requires self-awareness and humility, two traits that have been almost wiped out by the cult of individualism.

MaoAsadaStan · 2023-11-15T02:59:49+00:00

I think too many people are going off the experiences of others instead of living their life and trying different things to see what works. Anyone who has tried different things in life realizes that everyone has different strengths and weaknesses. A strategy that works for one person may not work for another, etc. Generalizations are to give an idea of how to move in the world, but real-life experience will show that the world is very nuanced.

Title	Do you think we lost the ability to see nuance, and if so, why to you think that is?
Author	Logical_Round_5935
Upvotes	5
Comments	24
Date	November 13, 2023 10:50 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/17une83/do_you_think_we_lost_the_ability_to_see_nuance/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-you-think-we-lost-the-ability-to-see-nuance-and.1238388 https://theredarchive.com/post/1238388

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