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[–]XSplain 38 points39 points40 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
How important is assertiveness? Literally the most important thing there is.
[–]Only1nDreams 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
At it's very core, seduction is telling someone what you want from them in a way that makes them want to do it for you. Everything beyond that is details. With that in mind, think about OP's question. If you don't make it clear what you want, how do you expect to get it?
[–]enkae7317 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It's really important, but don't overdo it and become a dick. Unless that's your main goal. Then otherwise go for it.
[–]XSplain 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah. There's the whole discussion about the difference between assertive and aggressive. I think it's really a matter of tact and class. You can be confident about who you are, what you want, and project them without stepping on anyone else to do it.
[–]Manwhorelio 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Exactly. It's basically the MOST important skill to have with women
[–]DaygameCoach 18 points19 points20 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Assertiveness/confidence is key.
Game should be run in person, not via text. If you need to setup logistics for a date, that's ok via text. Read Mode One regarding being more direct with women. Read all the sidebar help and deal with your approach anxiety. You don't need anyone to be with you for you to approach. Cold approaching will help your game, and then you can do better at online game. Approach 10 women a day for 1 year and then let us know how it went.
Stop making excuses and deal with the self-limiting beliefs. If you believe you can't do something, you can't. If you believe having gone to an all boys school is a problem, it is. If you believe that you are a pushover, you are. If you think being black is a problem, it is. Being 6'4 works in your favor. The women you will approach should not be RANDOM, but should be ones you are attracted to (hence not random).
If you want to know which women are into you, read Superflirt and Superdate, but approach regardless if you are attracted to them.
And most importantly, don't respond to this with more excuses or self limiting beliefs.
[–]ecdw 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I agree with most of this but this notion that texting should be used only for logistics that gets parroted on this sub ad nauseum is stupid. Texting is a normal part of relationships and conversing with people. So use it. Don't ONLY text a girl but the idea that you can't build a rapport and keep a girl interested with texting is just plain wrong.
[–]DaygameCoach 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I've done it when there was no other way and in relationships, but newbies think that they can run game via text instead of in person and it doesn't work as well.
[–]Bulk_king11 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes thank you I was just talking to my buddy about this today, my text game is almost necessary. Especially if I am busy and do not get to see them that often for whatever reason.
[–]GetBenttt 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You don't need anyone to be with you for you to approach.
This. It's too easy when you're with your friends having a good time. You need to be able to do it when you most vulnerable, alone. That's when you truly start improving yourself.
[–]StevieBoyB 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Very Important. Just try to develop the habit of putting your balls on the line, e.g. making sexual statements to her, not hiding your intentions etc. If you do that + not freaking out after she doesn't immediately show validation or approval, she'll probably be trying to hide the fact that your attractiveness levels are going through the roof.
Just to sum up:
Intent + Non-Reactiveness (i.e. not freaking out based on her reaction) = Attractive
Intent + Reactiveness = Approval Seeker/Desperate
No Intent + Non-Reactiveness = Cool FRIEND
No Intent + Reactiveness = Little Bitch
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
ya good sum up. I think what happens now is the slightest hint of a woman reacting negatively to me or my appearance just sends my mind into a negative spiral ("no girl will ever be attracted to me, girls dont like skinny guys, dont approach women at all cuz you'll get turned down every time, etc)
[–]GetBenttt 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You need to get out and just talk to people, not just women. I have the same problem with my friends being kinda shutin anti-fun losers. But the thing is, losers hangout with losers. If you want to start partying and going out you need to meet people that like to party and go out. Maybe encourage your friends to try new things, but don't expect them to want to change like you want to
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
yee of course I don't expect them to. See, i was in an all boys school for all of elementary and high school (well into uni now) so dont think i was socialized properly. never got invited to parties and so didnt talk to a SINGLE...yes a SINGLE...female for all of high school. I think that fucked me up socially so I dont know how to interact with tem.
[–]Overnight_Delivery 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link
to my understanding using online only will never work. Using online requires your developed offline game because you are basically using your offline game but with limited feedback. Also you shouldn't be trying to game in text. Text is a major communication break down and always detriments a connection, use it only to setup meets or calls.
yee what I meant is I try and just set stuff up via text/keep them interested, but again, as im meeting them off tinder or okcupid theres almost no investment on their part (almost like slight disinterest). And it STILL works out better for me than irl :(
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link
for real, I can't even walk past women around my age (21) without them avoiding my gaze or bowing their heads n shit
[–]TheXXL 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
How do you dress, walk, hold your head, your whole body? I learned to put my shoulders back, chest out head straight up slow movements and probably most important I don't look around hectic but when I gaze I do it slowly and in control. When I hold eye contact I do it strong.
The thing about all this is that you will look much more relaxed and fearless, in control if you like to say. Imagine a person who walks fast, always looking around hectic head down never looking up or into people's eyes, how would you perceive this person? Probably weak as hell and fearsome.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link
Ya I do all of the above (head held high, shoulders back, etc.) but I'm still invisible, which is strange given I'm like 6'4". I think that's where the root of a lot of my frustration lies - being 6'4" yet invisible to women, AND walking with a confident demeanor and still being treated like shit by them.
[–]Loveguy 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
You 6'4" and black, how big are you? Girl might be scared of you. If this is the problem you need to look less terrifying. Smile goes a long way. Try looking like you are having the greatest day of you live, like when you receive a awesome grade or a pay raise.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
maybe I forgot to mention, but im lanky, always been on the rail thin side. Managed to put some definition on my arms as of late though, but I don't see how I could come across as intimidating. I've tried the always smiling thing, but it was never reciprocated.
[–]crash1082 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
So how do you dress?
cant really specify it, but usually nice t-shirts and jeans/khakis which aren't loose fitting (I've made an effort to get better fits as of late). Also rock a snapback a lot to hide my receding hairline.
[–]TheXXL 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
What do you mean by they treat you like shit? There are many different ways to do that, and they have different root causes. May it be that they are just shit testing you, and you think it's bad treatment? Need more info.
By the way, if you are invisible to women, it might be that they are simply intimated by you, happens to me always. The only way around this is to be the one approaching.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
ya but even when I ask a woman for even the most mundane thing they give me a negative look on their face - like they don't like what they're looking at. intimidation is one thing, unattraction another...
[–]TheXXL 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Ok, then you must give off a strange vibe somehow. I guess it´s enforced by yourself feeling uncomfortable. When i go out, and i pretty much focus on night game, i get that also sometimes, some women outright tell me they don´t want to be bothered, but i don´t let it get to me. I stay friendly, say with the most honest smile i can produce, that i wish them/her a nice evening and go to another girl. The main thing is to be unimpressed by her reaction, but you still should see it when she´s uncomfortable, then calibrate, try different things until you see a change in her behavior. Also, never use canned material, it is creepy as hell and doesn´t fit your personality, people can sense that.
I am pretty sure with the right skillset you will do great, just don´t let yourself get impressed by her reaction.
I mean their tonality, tone of voice, facial expressions when talking to me shows they just want me to fuck off
[–]Overnight_Delivery 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
the street is by far the hardest place. I would recommend hip hop classes then watch some videos on what to do at the clubs then just go do it. Girls there are actually there to meet guys so you can do everything with full confidence.
yea just said that because this sub seems to be geared towards "cold approach" and whatnot
[–]Overnight_Delivery 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
I wouldn't assess too much from women you see on the street etc. They have agenda's / places to go etc and you are literally sampling women randomly from the entire woman base. It's very complicated their state in life / day etc and how you can do something with that as a stranger interrupting them while walking to somewhere.
Unless you're like walking around campus, or a mall etc where there are expectations of getting approached etc.
Also how women are looking at you while walking around is not really a huge barometer of how actionable it will be. You should be approaching women to see how actionable you are at that moment and coming back to assess what went wrong and committing to changes etc.
[–]GetBenttt 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I doubt that. Unless you're staring them down and intimidating them, you wouldn't know either if they're avoiding your gaze.
ehh well I've had times where I've been ignored when in groups with people and stuff like that. Hardly even have any friends that are female tbh. There's "chick magnets" and then there are "chick repulsors" like yours truly. Its like my unattractiveness level is exaggerated by people, cuz I personally don't even think Im bad looking at all. And changing my personality is insanely difficult - it's ingrained to who u are.
Baby steps
[–]bbgrill99 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Incredibly important. If you are unassertive, it's THE most important social skill you can work on. It's the difference between pushover and confident guy. It's the difference between social anxiety and relaxation.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
truesay. I think my social anxiety is really cyclical though. Like I try and put on a confident demeanor and walk around like I own shit, but then get nothing but bad vibes and dirty looks from people, hence I retreat into a shell. I don't think I've ever ONCE in my 21 years approached a girl I find attractive and just start talking - they physical reject me before I can even open my mouth. This cycle is so bad that I just wanna let them come to me at this point (but of course they never flirt or anything cuz I must be physically unappealing)
[–]DerpishGambino 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
6'4'' black guy here (and you seem somewhat similar to myself), play into your role and be dominate and assertive. I see that you walk around with confidence, which is good, but I think you need to work on inner game and creating a more natural, positive aura. Women can be fickle when it comes down to men of color (not necessarily bad, but just something I've noticed), so how you present yourself with both body language and fashion can turn those heads from to be looking straight at you instead of the ground.
[–]AlphaEndoGorillaKing 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Dominance > Control
Leadership > Aggressiveness
[–]SSJZoroDWolverine 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I'm not gonna repeat the "assertiveness is very important" point since so many have said it already. There's several things I do/have done to practice assertiveness. Most important is leading. Whenever I'm with a group of friends and no one knows what to do, I'll always say something like "Let's just go to (place)" or "Let's go do (activity)". I semi-judge how strong my assertiveness was by how many people are willing to go along with my suggestion. If everyone seems unsure after my suggestion, it usually means I'm not saying it confidently enough and I'm communicating uncertainty in my words and/or my body language.
Practicing being very direct will also cultivate your assertiveness. I would have nights where I would set my goal to approach 5 really attractive women and tell them straight up "You are fucking cute. What is your name?". You're killing multiple birds with this one because you're practicing owning and being upfront about your desires, you're practicing being bold, and you're practicing approach and dealing with rejection. Once you've numbed yourself to rejection and start feeling comfortable with telling women straight up that you find them attractive, you can start to ease up and be more strategic in your approach while still keeping the underlying boldness and assertiveness there.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
this is good. Next time I'm in a club/bar I'm definitely gonna try be bold and upfront like that - it's just I kinda lack the balls due to so many negative experiences creating a thought in my head that girls just dont WANT me approaching them cuz they feel nothing for me on a physical level (appearance-wise)
[–]BruhDatzGAY 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Yeah it's kind of a catch-22 there: You have to approach in order to get over the fear and you have to get over the fear in order to approach. Just go in knowing you're going to get rejected. Hell, make it a funny game to see how many girls will reject you. I find that finding the hilarity in rejection helps me to loosen up and be more easy going about it and to not take myself so seriously. When learning this stuff, the most important thing is just taking the action and letting the interaction be what it is whether it ends up being great, bad, awkward, uncomfortable, etc. You don't learn anything when you do nothing.
[–]SSJZoroDWolverine 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Exactly.
[–]crash1082 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I find the awkward interactions hilarious. Go laugh about it with your buddy and try again.
[–]Manwhorelio 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Yes as said already, assertiveness is THE #1 skill to have with women. Can't get around it.
In your case what happened is being a 6'4" black dude with naturally intimidating presence you never HAD to develop it, so you're deficient in this area.
Do you play any sports? Any "extreme" activities? What's your family like?
well I've never been the athletic type in complete honesty. mostly these days im just wrapping up my undergrad degree and producing music as a hobby (hopefully it can turn into something more!!!)
[–]Manwhorelio 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Okay.. reason I'm asking is so I can give you some examples from your own life that you can transfer over to women that are embedded naturally with dominance/assertiveness.
The MOST important aspects of assertiveness and dominance you need to understand is vocal projection and tonality. With those you can command most of the rest.
ok --- so what are good tips for talking? (that is if I can even open my mouth first without them giving me the "get the fuck away from me" look
That's a HUGE topic/subject matter. I run a training program that deals with this specifically.
http://www.manwhore.org/skype-training-w-mw/
Otherwise start taking improv and attending toastmasters. Do it every week for at least a few months.
[–]Life_Uncivilized1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
It's very important. But remember: it's just a skill.
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[–]XSplain 38 points39 points40 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]Only1nDreams 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]Life_Uncivilized1 point [recovered] | Copy Link