Why do you think people don't want guys to be taught game?

2019-05-16T09:30:51+00:00

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caesarfecit · 2019-05-16T17:56:30+00:00

Women don't want guys learning game for two reasons.

The first is because they're already having trouble enough with guys as it is. Many girls actually have terrible game. Many of them don't know how to demonstrate value to men beyond sex, get blown over by shows of superficial condifence and status, and chase guys who aren't that into them. As a result, many girls actually feel like they're on the losing side of the sexual marketplace because they've never stopped to question their own decisions seriously.

And the other reason why girls don't like guys learning game is because there's nothing a woman hates more than a faker. Someone who cons them into bed with a few smooth lines and pretending not to be thirsty for a few hours, and in reality is simply not the man his behavior made him appear to be. Women are actually more susceptible to this than ever because the female market is set to prize male confidence above almost any other quality. So women get scammed/scam themselves all the time and they bitterly resent it.

Now as for men, guys don't want other guys learning game for also one of two reasons, but they're actually much more simple.

Either they're white knight male feminist soyboys. 'nuff said.

Or they're insecure guys who rely on some silly external crutch (like money or status) to get girls, and they're terrified of competition. These kinda guys know their game is weak, have no interest in learning, and resent competition on principle. Many of them actually think women are effectively whores and you buy them. A mindset I find cynical, wrong, and self-demeaning. If you think all women are whores, then that makes you a john.

And people in general are uncomfortable with seduction even as a topic because of their own issues with sexuality that they project onto others. You see this on the political left and right with both sides to various degrees trying to push their sexual morality onto everyone else.

The solution to the bugaboos about sexuality is to draw the distinction between morals and ethics. Ethics are a set of rules one abides by to prevent unnecessary harm to others, like say "don't rape" or "don't cheat" or "don't lie". Morals are your set of values, the reasons why you have sex and value sex - and while there's convergence on some things, there's divergence on many other things.

The point being that seduction skills are just a toolbox - they can be used for good or for evil. And while we can generally agree on what things a person shouldn't do, we'll never agree perfectly on what people should do. And given that weakness and incompetence are not virtues, nobody is served by game being a closely held secret. It's literally lose-lose, except for a few "I'm alright Jack" types.

And I think the world is a better place when people are more competent at things than not, even if those skills can be potentially misused. Seduction is actually a necessity for the continued survival of the human race, and nobody is served by continuing to make a taboo out of it. In fact, I think you'd see fewer ethical breaches if people were more competent at satisfying their romantic and sexual needs in a consensual and mutually beneficial fashion.

That's why all the white knights who demonize male sexuality almost on principle are actually some of the biggest creeps and pervs. They white knight because they can't get girls, and then mistreat and take out their repressed resentment on any girl unfortunate enough to be under their power.

ScrumDadShow · 2019-05-16T10:47:04+00:00

The thing is nice guys have better things to do than spend their time learning "game". Horny guys that focus on picking up girls, going to clubs, putting notches in their belt, etc. are great at getting women but suck in relationships.

Im a "nice guy". Im mediocre at picking up woman. I have so much other stuff going on in my life that I dont care.

Anecdotally speaking, guys with game tend to be the most insecure. Great at being "alpha" cause they practiced it, but then in the long run they fall apart.

Their insecurity is what drives thier deep need for picking up women.

stronkpk · 2019-05-16T12:16:12+00:00

Shitpilled anyone? Lmao

codewizbambam · 2019-05-16T12:56:32+00:00

Okay I hope you don't mind if I go a bit into the psychobabble here. The main issue is, that the initial assassment of attractivity works totally different for men and women (or more like, in 75% of all cases). Men INITIALLY assess the attractiveness of women mainly by optical cues, and women have a whole wood of antennas for charisma. The thing is, like with ostrich feathers, they have mechanisms so that those antennas can't be cheated, and these mechanisms actually also manifest in a total hostility towards anything that is in their suspicion to be an attempt to cheat on those. After all, just like men, women also need some mechanism to differentiate the "mating worth" if you want so, of a male, just that it evolved differently. All that does not actually mean you have to be Robert De Niro to have women, it just means that by attempting to cheat those antennas, well if they catch you, you are so completely done it's not even funny. And like I said, anything that merely points in that direction sounds like the creepiest possible thing to most women.

That's why people (like me or say mark manson) keep preaching things like not trying to pursue women with acting skills, and promote qualities like honesty, authenticity and such. Ironically, nowadays, you'll find a lot of people who specialize on teaching men those qualities, and try to keep them from playing unnatural roles in seduction. So if you pursue this long enough, you will eventually get taught to do exactly the opposite than trying to cheat on those "antennas", but you all know very well how pua and the seduction community actually evolved, so that's why most women react very negatively to the whole idea of it.

itsamatterofattitude · 2019-05-16T14:37:09+00:00

As someone who has been in the "game" for over 20yrs, heres my two cents:

There are two types of "game"; Back in the day, game was all about manipulation of women and the interaction with the singleminded goal of sex. Men learned things that would circumvent a womans psyche to make them "appear" more attractive, without actually having to be attractive.

This was a problem as women who learned about what men were doing felt manipulated and used, and rightfully so. It was this reason that anyone who taught "game" was outted and ostracized.

Todays game is a lot different as its focus is the man actually taking time and making and effort to become more attractive through working on himself and building a life/style condusive to meeting and interacting with women.

As for men teaching men; I never understood the mindset of "Not creating rivals". My friends and I, even at ages as young as 15 (I lost my Vcard on my 15th bday), would go to the mall and meet women together and talk and teach and share with each other. When one wins, we all win.

As someone who currently works with men (and women) and teaches PUA/seduction techniques; I love the idea of everyone understanding how to interact and escalate with others. It not only works for dating, but litetally every aspect of your life.

levelpay · 2019-05-16T10:09:05+00:00

These days, the only guys who can attract pretty girls consistently are fuckboys and guys who generally don't treat girls particularly well

How do the guys who don't treat girls well get them in the first place? Like, do they open them and tell them they're ugly or something? lol. Do they show their 'bad boyness' straight away?

I never understood the 'bad boys get the girl' thing, but I know it's true. Even this morning I was reading about some dude who beat up his girlfriend all the time and was a psycho who stole her phone and would send her friends sexy messages to see if she would cheat etc, and she was some very hot teen trainee nurse!!

I always wonder how he met her and approached her and stuff lol

Although he was kinda good looking to be fair

2019-05-16T13:03:30+00:00

Dealing with girls has never been easy for me. But if I ever find the one she gonna be lucky

demilitarizdsm · 2019-05-16T13:55:02+00:00

Reading it from a book or getting the skill from training sessions is going to set off a woman's detectors for good gene selection. To these sensors you are actually cheating the system for good gene selection by acquiring it through intellect, and no this process DGAF what you consider fair or altruistic.

You have 3 options, learn it from you father, learn it from your own past experience, be aloof and just say you feel acting this way seems natural and you dont know why. Or at least say those 3 even if you pieced it altogether through intellect.

Return_Of_BG_97 · 2019-05-16T14:19:44+00:00

I don't disagree with your sentiment but a lot of what you say is opinion and observation, that's all. Not much in scientific fact.

IMO this is definitely a subject worth discussing but I imagine it'd get heated quick.

2019-05-16T16:12:50+00:00

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mseand · 2019-05-16T16:24:58+00:00

As of now, most of us would consider someone who is a millionaire rich.

If everyone becomes a millionaire, would we still consider millionaires rich? Of course not, prices will increase as wages do.

Therefore, if everyone is good at game, will people still be good at game? The bar will be raised and it'll be tougher to game.

Stop complaining about how the mainstream teaches on a large scale. It's a blessing that they teach bullshit because it gives guys like you and I an edge of 99.9999% out there who think they know game but don't.

ironheart777 · 2019-05-16T17:12:28+00:00

Part of it is that people only really notice people they are, at least, partially attracted to from the opposite sex. Women that say stuff like “men need to be nicer” are talking about the ultra alpha dicks that really do need to be nicer, not the already nice guys that need to be more empowered. Since these women are attracted to these alpha dicks, they are the ones they actually notice where as the nice guys don’t even pop on their radar.

2019-05-16T18:31:00+00:00

Maybe #MeeToo in 2019? Toxic Masculinity?

TexasStateStunna · 2019-05-16T18:41:22+00:00

How is mainstream conditioning males to be pussies?

ThatFuckingTwat · 2019-05-16T19:01:30+00:00

You sound like a nice guy cuck. Lol

ajswdf · 2019-05-16T19:29:34+00:00

I've always thought that it has to do with the female perspective of attraction and sex.

For men, knowing what we're attracted to is easy. If she's good looking we're attracted, so we can even pinpoint specific things we're attracted to.

But for women it's much harder to pin down. They're attracted to certain personality traits in men that reveal themselves in a large variety of ways. So if a woman doesn't think about it too much, it seems like attraction is mostly random and she just happens to like one guy and not another.

So from that perspective teaching guys how to get laid is inherently sketchy. If attraction is random then these are guys who could date other women but are learning how to manipulate the women who aren't attracted to them into having sex with them anyways.

They don't realize that there are actually specific things they're attracted to, and that men are learning how to make themselves attractive so women want to have sex with them.

But even if you explain this to women they still strongly resist it. They really don't want to believe that attraction is random, which is another mystery.

In this case I think it's because people, both men and women, want to believe they have it worse off than everybody else. Men want to believe they have it harder than women, and women want to believe they have it harder than men.

If they were to accept that attraction isn't random, then they'd have to accept that these guys who complain about struggling to get laid might not just be neckbeard losers who are trying to date supermodels, but normal guys who are struggle to have sex with normal girls. And since women obviously don't have this problem, they'd be forced to admit that, in this one area at least, they have it better than men.

2019-05-16T19:47:05+00:00

Because game can be interpreted, especially by popular society, as manipulative and creepy.

jzell3 · 2019-05-16T19:49:12+00:00

BLUE PILL thinking man.

Pickup or guys getting "better" with getting girls is seen as they are losers and should just know it or players that just want to get laid

John-lovestosposh · 2019-05-16T20:24:32+00:00

Cold approaching gives a pool of 3 billion girls. Average guys only have a social circle and a workplace to meet girls. This is less then 100 girls in that pool.

It’s like a cheat code. All my relationships have been from cold approach game.

I wish it was more mainstream, a lot guys have no clue you can improve be practicing, but belief it’s about looks and other bs.

2019-05-16T21:15:26+00:00

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recyclablebanthas · 2019-05-17T05:04:42+00:00

1

.....yet the mainstream teaches guys bullshit that makes them pussies and then girls complain about no good guys.

Men AND women are in the same damn confused mess. And then they're having kids and passing down their lack of knowledge and/or awkwardness. I don't think it's some concerted effort to "teach bullshit." People are just passing down what they know.

A few guys get the odd gem of wisdom, but largely, it's the blind leading the blind and kids largely grow up ignorant of how dating works. Or even social life, really. I have a theory that two things, particularly in the US, have led to this:

The shift from rural life to urban, which led to loss of dating/courtship traditions. Before that time, there are a lot of more old-fashioned customs surrounding social dancing as a means of feeling people out for a match. There were more commonly matchmakers, etc. When life shifted into urban centers, it was a melting pot. But a lot of dating culture was lost among the mainstream.
Puritan/religious influence which imposed a lot of negative ideas & baggage about sex and courtship in general. Any country colonized by the British seems to have more trouble in general with dating culture. UK, Australia, US, Canada..... compare with places like France, Spain, Italy etc., or places colonized by those countries. The whole stereotype of the "latin lover" comes from better preservation of their dating culture.

In any event, it's not like this is deliberate, that "the mainstream" doesn't "teach" guys correctly. It's that people in that culture have simply lost their dating culture and can't pass it down effectively.

It's not even the case with the "mainstream" in every country. If you go to Europe, that is fully on display when you compare the social experience in different countries. France in particular stands out in my memory. Holy crap that country is a different experience than the US. In the south, anyway, people everywhere just actively look for eye contact and kind of hold each other with their eyes. It's intoxicating at times if you're tuned into it.

2

// "The truth is simple, you don't want rivals, so you don't create ones. You don't spill out your dating secrets. You keep them to yourself and let the guys in your circle be clueless."

It's not like "game" is really some great secret. Confidence and the ability to actively pay attention to the people you're interacting with, are most of it. Not complicated.

And most people are not this exhaustingly Machiavellian towards everyone in their lives. Some people are and they tend to be attracted to each other, which ends up artificially biasing their observations and they think everyone is like that, when it's just that they unintentionally repel people who don't want to deal with manipulative bullshit.

brabg · 2019-05-16T14:45:41+00:00

Women are taught the same lies as betas, and women believe it.

Even after women experience their gut rejection for beta behavior, and gut attraction for alpha behavior, they still believe the lies. They cannot dissociate their real life experience with the taught blue pill.

Women simply believe that they had bad luck, that the alpha was an asshole, and that the beta that courted simply had not “chemistry”.

Women are taught magical thinking, superstitions, horoscopes, and the fairy tale about the “magical soulmate”, which is a mythical unicorn male that is perfect for them and is magically assigned to perfectly match and fulfill all her needs. She does not needs to fix herself. Just needs to find the magical male, which will perfectly fit like a puzzle into her flaws. There is no factual reason to believe that. Is just magical thinking.

Female mating behavior is unconsciously driven. It is programmed into her DNA.

The purpose of female instinct is to shortcut whatever she believes, because women are born to live in societies controlled by men, and men make social rules and systems of beliefs which are designed for short term benefit, and do not care for long term evolutionary progress.

Long term evolutionary progress is mating with alphas. But short term benefits are deciding which woman should mate with which man. A small tribe may distribute all women between all males (with some exceptions for chieftains and subordinates). Those are societal rules that women need to believe and obey, for their own survival.

But women also need to ignore those rules, for long term evolutionary benefit. They need to cheat the rules and fuck with the alphas.

That is why women sexuality is unconsciously commanded. Her DNA is made to force her to ignore those rules, and fuck the alphas whenever an opportunity presents.

Most female mammals make absolutely clear when they are ovulating. They spread odors and pheromones to broadcast that they are ready to get pregnant, and to attract males to compete for them.

However, women evolved to hide the ovulation, and make it secret. That allows them to pretend to obey the rules, and have sex with the assigned husband, but sneak away during their ovulation period, to conceive a baby with any available alpha.

When you pick up a woman, you are not negotiating with her rational mind. You are negotiating with his feelings, her instinct.

Feelings shutdown the conscious mind and command.

That is why seducing a woman is not a rational activity. It is emotional. You have to awake her feelings, arouse her, make her horny.

It is you who give her feelings to her. That’s why she values you, because is you who inspire desire inside her.

That’s why desire is not negotiated. Cannot be negotiated. It doesn’t works “show to her how much of a nice boy you are”, how much money you make, how well behaved and gentleman you are.

That’s is what society does not understands.

WIA20XX · 2019-05-16T12:14:12+00:00

Society needs worker bees.

Title	Why do you think people don't want guys to be taught game?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	45
Comments	94
Date	May 16, 2019 9:14 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/bpab0e/why_do_you_think_people_dont_want_guys_to_be/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/why-do-you-think-people-dont-want-guys-to-be.1468958 https://theredarchive.com/post/1468958

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