659,329 posts

[Discussion] Love After MRP

by drty_pr | May 22, 2018 | askMRP

16 upvotes

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A need for this discussion was mentioned by both u/88Will88 and u/SteelSharpensSteel the other day on a post. It got me thinking, so I figured I'd give my spin on it and see how others view it.

When we show up here, there is a magnitude of reasons that we are in a shitty marriage, but the underlying theme to all of it is too much beta. We then go through a rigorous regiment of becoming more masculine and introspection to reach a point of self actualization. When we get here, so much has changed, but so much has stayed the same. I, as well as I'm sure lots of others, have had a hard time articulating "do I love my wife?"

What is love?

I love high quality IPA beer. I love a steak that's so rare I honestly question if I should take it off the grill. I love that feeling of shaking while I'm in the locker room drinking a protein shake. I love my dogs in their complete unconditional love for me. I love my kids knowing that, barring disaster, they will always be there and they are the most important thing in my life. I love sex.

These are all measurable and tangible things. They stay at a constant state of love and unless I chose to change, they always will.

But I love my wife...

As mentioned above, when we decide to stop playing the game as feminine men, this is one of the things that change. We no longer believe in solemates, fairy tale romance and unconditional love. When you start to see that the love she gives you has a price tag, it makes you question what kind of love you should give in return. Sure, when my balls are drained, my favorite dinner is on the stove, she has been doing things that make my life a lot easier of her own accord, I feel love for her. Even something as simple as bringing 2 beer out to the garage when I'm busy on a project and listening to me ramble on about my new saw.

This becomes a sort of conundrum though. If she isn't doing those things, and I subsequently don't feel that love for her, am I simply writing the biggest covert contract of all?

The best way I've been able to understand this is that love is something I give her. I choose to give it when I see fit, and I choose to not give it when I see no need. It's not something I take or deny her of. Simply something I give. My love is a gift. She appreciates this gift, as it comes with undivided attention and the "fun drty". When I choose not to give this gift, she is met mainly with indifference. Sometimes even contempt and hatred.

It's not really a conscious decision I make either. So it's not a keeping score/tit-for-tat kinda thing. More of a natual course of action. The difference between this and the way I used to love her is in how I don't expect it. If she wants to use it as some sort of bargaining chip, I don't play that game.

Maybe this isn't the right way to view it, but how I spent the first 12 years of our relationship seeking her love, by giving her mine irregardless, did nothing but give her the upper hand by living in her frame. Now that my love is a gift, she appreciates it so much more.

How do you view love? Thoughts?


Post Information
Title [Discussion] Love After MRP
Author drty_pr
Upvotes 16
Comments 59
Date 22 May 2018 04:47 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/204462
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/8lbgts/discussion_love_after_mrp/
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Comments

[–]Red-Curious6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

This would be fun to discuss on r/RPChristians - but from a purely secular vantage, love means something very different and that definition often differs from person to person.

The RP position is generally that women cannot love men the way men want to be loved. Their love is not for him; it is for what he has to offer her. Sometimes that can be emotional alone. Other times it requires some modicum of tangible contribution - good job, good sex, good parent, good physique that she can show off to her girl friends, etc. 99.9999% of the time, once the guy stops offering what she expects out of the marriage, he gets the famous line: "I love you, but I'm not in love with you." This womanese translates to: "I don't love you, but I'm going to tell you I do in vague terms because I don't want to feel like I'm a bad person."

Now, I could go on for pages about how the ancient Greeks and philosophers of old define love, but in all my studies I find three core principles:

  • PASSION - Some people like to define love as a feeling - an emotional excitement at being with someone else. In my view, this is one component of love, and most likely the least of the three. I have yet to meet a relationship that can maintain NRE for longer than 2-years post-marriage. After that, the passion always converts to the practical, but comes back in waves. One of the most beneficial things RP does for men is teaches them to set aside this illogical passion (which is always the source of ONEitis) in favor of a more grounded perspective on relationships - one that can still involve passion, but is not dominated by it.

  • COMPANIONSHIP - You've probably heard people say: "Everything about the other person is perfect, except the sex!" Despite the fact that they're lying to themselves, those on the more honest end of the spectrum are the people who probably do have a genuine love through their companionship. Their expression of love is not through emotion and sex; it is through their behaviors. They like doing things together. They laugh at each other's jokes. They comfort one another when they're down. Their love is not defined by how they feel; it's defined by what they do and how they act toward the other person.

  • COMMITMENT - The final expression of love is on the strength of the bond in the face of adversity. We see story after story of adventurers who are in love and will travel across a world, fight dragons, and sludge through swamps to be with a woman, despite the fact that he's nowhere near her and thus isn't getting the emotional bubbles and they're not expressing companionship with one another. In modern marriages, these are the people who have been dealt a raw hand in life, aren't particularly excited about the relationship, but who will never give up.

Everyone works through some combination of these. Here's how those combinations play out:

Singular

  • People who are only passionate and have no companionship or commitment are basically just hooking up for one-night stands or short-term relationships. If they do get married, it won't last for long.

  • People who are only seeking companionship often find themselves in dead bedrooms where they tell themselves, "I have a roommate, not a spouse," and they get divorced.

  • People who are only committed end up in miserable long-term marriages and wish they weren't so afraid to commit suicide.

Double

  • If you lack passion, but have the other two, you fall into the "everything's great but the sex" relationship. That causes a lot of internal bitterness that starts to taint even the well-intentioned interactions you otherwise have with your spouse. These people stay married, but something is forever lacking and disappointed.

  • For others, companionship is what's lacking. They live totally separate lives, each doing their own thing. The fact that their lives are oriented in different directions often even gets in the way of their otherwise mutual lust. There is a sense that the relationship just isn't going anywhere and even great sex and a strong commitment can't fix the problems in their day-to-day lifestyles.

  • If you lack commitment, people end up cheating on each other and getting divorced as soon as times get hard or when the next best thing comes along.

Scales

In my view, the ideal is, of course, to have some balance of all three. The problem is when a person weighs too heavily on one of these at the expense of the others.

  • An over-emphasis on the commitment aspect of a relationship can make you become a weak and needy beta that kills her passionate feelings toward you. Over-commitment also makes a man disillusioned about how committed his spouse might be. But under-commitment keeps people out of LTRs altogether, which often-times might not fit within a man's MAP. For example, there are countless articles explaining why it's difficult for single guys to get certain jobs or go into politics as compared with married men. Fun fact, there have only ever been 2 guys who were single when elected president ... and one of them married while in office. Marriage/LTRs provide a distinct social advantage that can provide value to a man's life, but it also means the commitment scale can't be set at 0 if a man wants to reap those advantages. A 2 or 3 out of 10 might be more appropriate - more if the threat of divorce rape is particularly strong under the facts of a marriage. And note that "marriage" is not the same as commitment (despite mistaken female beliefs) - it predominantly exists to give an incentive for those in the advantageous position in a relationship not to break their commitments.

  • An over-emphasis on ...

... and I'm at work and ran out of time.

[–]drty_prRed Beret[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I know where you were going with it and I wholeheartedly agree

[–]Red-Curious1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

If it matters, my preferred balance looks something like:

  • passion: 8

  • companionship: 8

  • commitment: 5

To evaluate my wife toward me:

  • passion: 6

  • companionship: 9

  • commitment: 9

I know these numbers are relative and subjective, but subjective impressions and evaluations matter on an individual level. It also looks like I get more love from her than I give, but that's also because I bring more to the table. There are other aspects to love that I didn't mention in my original breakdown for various reasons, but earning an income, maintaining the calendar, parenting the kids, etc. - all those things are forms of love too, if we accept my underlying contention that love is more about what we do than how we feel or what we say (though those things matter too). Accordingly, if we added that stuff to the balance, I'd outweigh her by a few points, bringing a closer balance.

The key here is that on the points that matter to me, I'm getting from her what I want in abundance of what I want. But on the points that matter to her, I bring more to the table. To that end, it's not about who loves who more or if one loves the other enough. In the context of an LTR/marriage it's about ensuring the balance is uniquely suited to the situation.

For men who actually have their lives figured out, giving her what she wants from a relationship will be second nature and require no additional effort because he just has to keep on being his awesome self the same as before the relationship. As a result, it's her who usually ends up making up the difference in trying to meet his standards - but this is natural for most women, as it is their pattern to mold to their man anyway.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Almost a 100% with you here.....

... love is something I give her. I choose to give it when I see fit, and I choose to not give it when I see no need. It's not something I take or deny her of. Simply something I give. My love is a gift. She appreciates this gift, as it comes with undivided attention and the "fun drty". When I choose not to give this gift, she is met mainly with indifference. Sometimes even contempt and hatred.

Everything there hit home for me. The "contempt and hatred" part, these are the beta covert contract part, and, they take a long time to kill.

[–]drty_prRed Beret[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm getting closer to that point.

[–]Cam_Winston215 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy

How do you view love?

My wife was my first date. I was hers.
It was during the Reagan administration.
We've been committed to each other ever since.

I'd do it all again without hesitation.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Perhaps I can't get over this fact because men and women love differently, and as a boy, I was wrongly taught that women would love in the same way that I do.

How can you love your wife so much when you know, in accordance with AWALT, that she'd leave you if your SMV took a drastic hit? I mean, when I think of male friends, brothers, or even dogs, we'd stick it out for each other. With a wife, that's not the case.

[–]drty_prRed Beret[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Nor would I. Although I would have done a couple things differently and never found this place. Suppose hindsight is 20/20 though.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I would have done a couple things differently and never found this place

Echo chamberrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[–]alphasixfour2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Good post and good question on the covert contract. Something I have been spinning around as well. Essentially you are bringing your love in line with hers, i.e. conditional. Your love has a price tag as well. You will no longer be taken for granted.

Was reading in the hierarchy of love post about the difference between a woman's love for their children and for their mate. -Unconditional love is only for the kids.

In days past young men were removed from their mothers, given a rite of passage (agoge, etc) and among other things basically told/shown that no one will ever love you like your mother again.

Men these days, many raised only by women, don't have that clean break, and expect unconditional reciprocated love on both sides. That the more they are a "good boy" the better they will be treated. That's the only paradigm they know.

I think what you are saying is instead the focus should not be on the unconditional love, nor should it be in the keeping score or conditional love like woman, but to ultimately get to the point that you are a man that stands in his own right and own frame so completely and securely, that any added or withdrawn affection is a natural and completely unconscious consequence of her interactions. Your frame is so focused on you and your mission, that she can wash up against it, operate within it or GTFO. And that is what will attract her and/or her competition to you.

"Stop trying to hit me Neo and HIT ME!"

[–]drty_prRed Beret[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I made a post a year ago about how a father should prepare his son for this inevitable. Ties in quite nicely to what you're saying.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Could you link it? I'd love to read it.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Belly full, Balls empty, Be present.

A beer and a sammitch delivered unsolicited when I'm sweaty in the garage, new sheets, fills up my gas tank, a functional, mostly independant first officer, a surprise nude pic, a blowjob where she finishes, tucks me in, and leaves.... fuck, back to balls empty.

If you're leading the life you should, you yourself should have the vast majority of your shit packed away and nailed down. Freeing your wife from mommy/cocaptain/cheerleader duties.

I had a discussion on PPD that basically asked the same thing, and I said the same thing. Several women came back with.... not even close,,, men need so much more...

When I refuted with my definition of a man and posited that if their "men" needed more, maybe they were assuming their gender.

Went downhill after that.

[–]drty_prRed Beret[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Arguing with the purple hair feminist, BP cucks and Alpha Widows over there can be rather infuriating. I find it amusing though how often they indirectly prove so many RP truths.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I like tugging tiger tails, and the mods are ridiculous, but after a while I feel like Jacobim Mugatu chowing down on the crazy pills, and I have to put the mouse down before I kill the Prime Minister of Malaysia.

[–]drty_prRed Beret[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You and me both

[–]itiswr1ttenRed Beret2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

The fact that you've gotten radically different answers from every comment in the other thread is important.

MRP evolved from TRP because TRP's fundamentals have to go further to support a true LTR or marriage. I believe the conversation is elevated on MRP because there's no universal working theory on how to run a marriage successfully, at least not to the extent that attraction has concretely been defined and compartmentalized.

The reality is that an LTR/marriage requires absolute dictatorial belief in however you're choosing to administer the "love" in the relationship. Congruency and even the barely defined "frame" are only marginally important in short term relationships. To succeed in MRP, the definition of every TRP fundamental must be extrapolated for personal use.

Outcome Independence is a perfect example. It demonstrably works for multiple men here with highly conflicting dictatorship regimes:

"love isn't real so it doesn't really matter whether this works out, but I prefer the current arrangement for now" is OI. It's OI borne of an inability to actually trust your partner, so it's not complete theory.

"My love is so utterly unconquerable it doesn't matter how much she acts up, that's normal and I'll bring her and the children back into the fold no matter how far they try to stray" is OI. It's OI borne of irrational confidence, and has failed in the face of the modern legal system, thus also incomplete as universal theory.

"Acta non verba STFU" and its variants don't make any attempt to define what makes love different from leadership, so little else to say there.

My take is it's a binary choice: choose whether you think love is real or not. Define it for yourself and enforce that accordingly, because love is a platonic "Form" - it's an intangible and perfect version of a thing humans can only observe the shadow of on a wall.

M/TRP is best applied to the subject of love in the negative. We know it's NOT oneitis. We know it's NOT servitude and pure sacrifice. We know it's NOT "plowhorse". Most of all, it's definitely NOT the same between men and women. Teaching one another what to avoid appears to be the best path forward.

[–]drty_prRed Beret[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

What other thread?

[–]itiswr1ttenRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Not yours, my bad. This one where your comment was marriedredpill/comments/8khx6g/rp_theory_i_love_you

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy

i love my wife

[–]PersaeusRed Beret2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

awwww

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

i know. super gay

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Don't do that. It's our job.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

you still can

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Oooooh Kaaaaay

[–]SorcererKingMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

super gay.

Nope, not the same. You took all the fun out of it.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Love comes from your Frame. You decide what you give and how you give it. It isn't earned, like trust. You give love until you decide you can't any more.

There can come the time when all the negativity, all the things finally out way her value. Then the love stops. Just like trust.

You can love your children yet if they continue their lives constantly making the same mistakes and looking to you to bail them out, at some point that love stops. The children must go on their own.

It is not a mistake to love. It is a mistake to tag that love to a condition or an action. Never underestimate an Alpha's kindness for a weakness.

[–]drty_prRed Beret[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You can love your children yet if they continue their lives constantly making the same mistakes and looking to you to bail them out, at some point that love stops. The children must go on their own.

That's why I said "barring disaster".

Although, in my experience with children who continually make the same mistake, so much of that falls back on paradigms created by poor parenting.

It is not a mistake to love. It is a mistake to tag that love to a condition or an action. Never underestimate an Alpha's kindness for a weakness.

I've had to remind people of this over the years.

[–]matrixtospartanatLVRed Beret1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Romantic love from men has indirectly served the feminine imperative for hundreds of years, and directly served the gynocracy for decades.

Love is no more than a chemical process in the brain and can be traced to the endorphins like oxytocin, vasopressin, and dopamine that all lead to the feelings of ‘love.’

Understanding this supports hypergamy. When you (in general) act like a masculine man with Outcome Independence and as your own mental point of origin, then it supports your own masculinity as well when you stop performing for her validation and to feed your ego.

It’s only been recently, as men have been raised to give, and women have been raised to take, that things have gotten so fucked up.

Yes, if you build it, they will come; to take it the fuck away from you.

‘Love’ is the process that greases the wheels of a relationship where two come together for the sake of raising children. Otherwise, someone would be eating their young.

For women, love is an act of the will: hypergamy.

For men: love is an act of the will.

We just don’t exercise it enough.

Remember, love is a chemical process in the brain. There is no magic.

Control that shit.

Or it will control (destroy) you.

[–]drty_prRed Beret[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Absolutely. After unplugging, I see very little difference in the love I have for that steak and the love I have for my wife. They're both just good feelings.

Would you say it's BP to think that the love from a women is something more concrete grounded intimate/personal?

[–]matrixtospartanatLVRed Beret-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yes and no.

It’s not BP so much as it is simply wrong to think that the love from a woman is something more intimate/personal.

The ONLY exception I see is the love from your own mother.

For most of us, that is a complete love that we will never experience again. We go into our LTRs and marriages looking for it from our SO, and we are continually disappointed.

This seriously needs to be explained to men by their fathers, but too few fathers are real men.

I have failed in many ways, but I’m fixing my shit. And all 5 of my remaining sons understand their SOs will never love them like their mommy.

I’m not doing great explaining mental point of origin to my 17yo son, but I’m not giving up.

And so back to your original question, I guess a few women are capable of a deep, intimate love, but you won’t know that until it is tested by hypergamy or her dealing with a full beta and choosing to be an RP style woman instead of a hypergamous bitch.

[–]drty_prRed Beret[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

I linked my old post about it in different comment on this thread. It is 100% what I will say to my boys.

[–]Tebulus1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Maybe this isn't the right way to view it, but how I spent the first 12 years of our relationship seeking her love, by giving her mine irregardless, did nothing but give her the upper hand by living in her frame. Now that my love is a gift, she appreciates it so much more.

That is spot on as far as I am concerned: conditional vs unconditional love. Its gets cluster fucky because of kids, but essentially I think the over the top selfless honeymoon period love isn't really some state you can exist in for very long for men. Once you accept that your acts of kindness, generosity etc that we typically associate with selflessly loving someone are to be doled out on merit and not as part of a covert contract or because you think sunshine comes out their ass like a new couple does to each other, you can love with the passion of a sun and still be a man on a mission.

This becomes a sort of conundrum though. If she isn't doing those things, and I subsequently don't feel that love for her, am I simply writing the biggest covert contract of all?

How could it be unless you are defining love as those nurturing behaviors and tailoring your behavior around it? Why cant it just be a state you both exist in at some times?

I also think most men need to keep in mind that for all of our smarts and technology, we are still dirty fucking savages at heart. They want a man who can protect them, fuck them, and feed them and we want something to kill and something to fuck. Literally every single thing all women want and need come back to these three things in some capacity and are obfuscated by society/culture/feminism/whathaveyou. So in that regard its less about you and your identity, and more you just need to act like the animal you are and stop trying so hard to intellectualize it.

Red curious breakdown is as close to a real definition of love as you can get methinks.

[–]drty_prRed Beret[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

So in that regard its less about you and your identity, and more than you just need to act like the animal you are and stop trying so hard to intellectualize it.

This is so elegant. Sometimes, this seems so much easier than it is and we need to simplify it.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

What is love.

Serious side now. My grandfather was a army guy, fought in WW2. His wife, my grandma, had a stroke and was completely paralyzed, and couldn’t speak. My grandfather took care of his lady for ten years before she passed away. Total care. She died in his arms. I remember this tough as nails man having tears run down his face. What love that must be.

Love is not hard work, but you do have to work hard. It’s a gift. And it’s a choice too. You choose it every day. Until you don’t. You do, you don’t, you do, you don’t. It’s a choice. When you’re down, you still have a choice.

I was rereading The Rational Male on the plane coming back from my conference sitting next to my wife (remember, I could care less about her learning about fight club), and RT touches on a few things about love which you’ve mentioned. Men and women love differently. Men love for love’s sake, women love opportunistically.

It’s a tough pill to swallow.

Baby don’t hurt me. Don’t hurt me. No more.

[–]SorcererKingMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ouch! Got me right in the feelz there, Haddaway.

[–]drty_prRed Beret[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It is a tough pill to swallow, but once you do, love truly can't hurt you no more.

[–]broneilbro0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

Great post. I am in this same situation of unplugging right before I left for deployment for 11 months. It is shocking and almost nerve racking based on how my perspective of loving and being love has changed.

I have that anger but it's subsiding because my wife doesn't know better just like how I was raised that is how she is. Now I can't change her but I'm changing myself and creating my OI and options. I am loving her for being both roles while I'm deployed but as I return I know there will be a shift back to the norm. I think this is for the better as we move forward and I become the man I want me to be. Not what she wants me to be, as I have learned you can only live for yourself and with that they need to love you for what you want.

[–]drty_prRed Beret[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

with that they need to love you for what you want

That's going to be disappointing bro. She will never love you for that.

[–]broneilbro0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I meant that she will never love you like you want her to, so they need to be within your frame and not theirs.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Careful not to get into a covert contract there.

[–]broneilbro0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Yup, definitely it was hit on by the OP. The CC is a bitch!

[–]simbarlionRed Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

So looking forward to your field report...when is touchdown?

[–]broneilbro0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I'll be back in September. I won't lie as it will be eye opening. I saw the post about the 1000 foot rope and that is where I am at. OYS and avoiding Rambo. I have dropped weight, got bigger lats, and honestly feeling the best I have in a long time.

Still get tinges of BP when it comes with dealing with the past red flags (PI Posts) but honestly it is concerning how accepting of both Stay or Go outcomes I am. A year ago I would have choked to death on my BP victim puke, now its so different its hard to put into words.

I have 100 days for lifting, learning, and living.

[–]simbarlionRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I have 100 days for..... laying down a few extra welds on the corners of the big ass frame you built..... Strong like oak....

FTFY

[–]officepeeon0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Since swallowing the pill, I don't really love things or people anymore. I love the feelz that things or people can give me.

Your love of rare steak is an interesting analogy. You love your steak raw, primal, juicy, dripping. Once you eat that steak, taste it, digest it, absorb it, defecate it, do you still love it?

I'm in love with the satisfaction that a well-prepared steak can give, but I don't love the steak.

Lucky for my wife I'm a steak man. I don't like chicken or pork. If I have steak whenever I want just the way I want it, I have no need to try chicken or pork.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

You know, I know this steak doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After nine years, you know what I realize? Ignorance is bliss.

[–]officepeeon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Hah! Late reading this but was waiting for the comment.

[–]Big_Daddy_PDX0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You’ll still need to make the risk for “loving” her, but hopefully a person has learned to use the tools this time. My relationship today, with my GF, is light years beyond what I had with my wife. Forget the fact that she’s 15yrs younger, I know how to avoid overextending myself in ways that I never did before. I find it easier giving that gift now. If she doesn’t like it, she just gets less next time; whereas before, I would keep overextending and then become bitter because my love wasn’t appreciated.

[–]drty_prRed Beret[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you've been giving your buddies free beer every Saturday for 10 years and then suddenly you start asking them to pay you for it, it stands to reason they may not want to.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

What is love?

I love high quality IPA beer. I love a steak that's so rare I honestly question if I should take it off the grill. I love that feeling of shaking while I'm in the locker room drinking a protein shake.

Replace "love" with "appreciate" and i think that's what love is. An appreciation of the value provided even though none was expected. And that appreciation results in a free expression of value back through commitment, leadership, excitement. Love/appreciation is only really that when it's given freely, which is why covert contracts are the death kiss to love.

[–]drty_prRed Beret[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

There really is no difference

[–]IRunYourRiver0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The problem with the concept of love is that it has been beaten and torn into a grotesque simulation of itself. I sometimes wonder if love is possible given the baggage and unintended meanings that come with it. I think a lifelong commitment that is sometimes passionate, sometimes icy, sometimes solitary, and sometimes 100% on point is completely possible. Is this love? Who can say? Should it be more like a Disney movie?

It's not really a conscious decision I make either. So it's not a keeping score/tit-for-tat kinda thing. More of a natual course of action.

100 % bingo. I think about this a lot. We are alphas by nature. We're learning to emulate behaviors that are already hardwired into our DNA. Mostly what we're doing is forgetting the shitty advice we've gotten that disconnects us from ourselves.



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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