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Wife is Weaponizing Sex to "Win" an Argument

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cleanthes_conscious
March 2, 2018
9 upvotes
askMRP

As the title suggests, she's making it clear that I'll receive a hard "no" until I apologize for some bullshit from 5 days ago. I touched on the bullshit in my OYS post this week.

Trusted contributors here seem to diverge on how to handle this.

/u/Red-Curious says in this thread that:

The only real way to avoid being butthurt is literally to act like nothing happened and continue offering to let her live alongside your awesome life. She says no? "Cool, another night. Want to drink some wine and do a puzzle then?"

I'd call that an active-positive approach.

/u/strategos_autokrator says in this thread that:

This is not behavioral correction, but a boundary. You can't let that shit out of hand. Be honest: "You can do that, but I don't accept that in my relationships". You have to be strong about this, as this is the equivalent of a woman's nuclear option.

I'll call this the active-negative approach.

Both approaches seem in conflict with the STFU and remove your time and attention (passive-negative ?) approach outlined in the reading.

My questions is, at dread level 1-2, do I have any other option than to STFU, remove my time and attention, and nurse my sore balls alone? Or, is this a special kind of sexual denial that requires a more active response?

This is the first time since I've swallowed the pill that sex has been used as a weapon against me. I'm finding it hard as hell not to engage, argue, and blow the fuck up. It's harder now that I'm understanding the power dynamics at play.


Post Information
Title Wife is Weaponizing Sex to "Win" an Argument
Author cleanthes_conscious
Upvotes 9
Comments 42
Date 02 March 2018 08:55 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/204754
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/81i467/wife_is_weaponizing_sex_to_win_an_argument/
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Comments

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret44 points45 points  (1 child) | Copy

Don't negotiate with terrorists.

[–]FoxShitNasty834 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

This

[–]RuleZeroDADRed Beret37 points38 points  (1 child) | Copy

"You win, I'm not having sex, with YOU."

Then leave for the weekend.

[–]JDRoedellRed Beret5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

This, OP. This and some of what red-curious said. Entertain it for a few days or weeks (your call). Then at some point you decide who’s in charge and how much manipulation you will entertain. Then you make it clear her little tantrum-like power play is not what you signed up for and unacceptable behavior and tell her you’ll be getting pussy with or without her.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret14 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy

First you make it clear it’s a sexual relationship. You do this through gaming and kino. You don’t stop.

Second you should never be sitting or have down time around her. Always the impression that you have other things to do.

No sex. No relationship benefits.

Yet you must do this as if it doesn’t matter to you. As if it’s what you would do all along.

It doesn’t have to upset you if you don’t want it to.

[–]Alpha_Engineer995 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

“never be sitting or have down time around her”.

Yep. Talk about a negative feedback loop.

That was one of my problems too. I was a sitting duck around the house and she would just unload on me. Only defense was to engage in verbal intercourse- which is a losers game. Rinse, repeat.

It’s easier to dodge a target when you are ALREADY moving.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is the first time since I've swallowed the pill that sex has been used as a weapon against me.

No, it probably isn't the first time. You just started noticing. That's good.

[–]JDRoedellRed Beret5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

“Why do my eyes hurt?”

[–]youcantdenythat7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

The biggest rule is that you need to appear unphased like Red-Curious.

When my last gf tried this I would treat it as if she was joking and "joke" back with her. You have to have a solid frame and be higher in the dread levels for this to work. "Well, I guess I'll have to get it somewhere else then...<smirk>" and leave the house. Kiss her on the cheek or forehead and smile before you go.

If she addresses it later smirk again, "a gentleman never tells", flirt with her and escalate. Shut down again? Passive-positive until the later where you try again. Keep trying too, you have nothing to lose. Play with her, tickle her, swat her butt, get her in the right mood. She will cave eventually, but it has to just "happen", you can't negotiate it.

The only real way to avoid being butthurt is literally to act like nothing happened and continue offering to let her live alongside your awesome life. She says no? "Cool, another night. Want to drink some wine and do a puzzle then?"

This is ok for now if you're not ready to fire back yet. Other replies might include "I guess I'll have to call up my other wife then.", "hmm.. I wonder what (insert her cute friend's name here) is doing tonight?" and pull out your phone like you're going to text her. "Keep that attitude up and I might have to have an affair <wink><smirk>"

This is not behavioral correction, but a boundary. You can't let that shit out of hand. Be honest: "You can do that, but I don't accept that in my relationships". You have to be strong about this, as this is the equivalent of a woman's nuclear option.

This will not help. You can't logic an emotional person.

Both approaches seem in conflict with the STFU and remove your time and attention (passive-negative ?) approach outlined in the reading.

Passive-negative < STFU (neutral) < Passive-positive < Active-Positive.

STFU is the least you should do if you don't know how to respond another way. It implies that you have frame. Know what's better? Having actual frame. Amused mastery is the next step after STFU mastery.

The final lesson is learning to draw her into your frame. But one step at a time.

[–]ImSteveMcQueen0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

STFU is the least you should do if you don't know how to respond another way. It implies that you have frame. Know what's better? Having actual frame. Amused mastery is the next step after STFU mastery.

The final lesson is learning to draw her into your frame. But one step at a time.

Please elaborate with examples for this situation.

[–]youcantdenythat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I explained what I would do in this situation.

  1. Don't take her threat seriously, treat it as a joke, it's a shit test.

  2. Joke back, add a little pressure flip, imply that you have other options, get her hamster running a little. Go do awesome things, make her wonder what you're doing. Dread game.

  3. Try to seduce her later. Tease the fuck out of her, make her horny. Close the deal. If she still says no, go back to number 1. Repeat as necessary.

  4. If she behaves like this often enough it's time to re-evaluate the relationship or get some side-action.

[–]2gunsgetsome3 points4 points  (7 children) | Copy

sex has been used as a weapon against me

It's only a weapon if it hurts YOU.

Imagine her saying "I'll hold my breath until you buy me a pony!"

I'm finding it hard as hell not to engage, argue, and blow the fuck up.

Oohhh, you don't have abundance (or even the mentality). Yeah, that will make things harder. You should get some of that.

do I have any other option than to STFU, remove my time and attention, and nurse my sore balls alone?

Yep. Rub one out or go bang some strange. Banging strange might be radical at DL <11, and there will be consequences of one kind or another, but an option is exactly what it ALWAYS is.

Both approaches seem in conflict with the STFU and remove your time and attention

Nope. In RC's example, he's removing the attention he might be expected to pay to the button she's pushing. "Oh, the scoreboard? Yeah it's turned off."

STFU doesn't mean "never make mouth sounds", it means "state your piece simply, then stop talking". Stratigos' example is this (and the right one, BTW, no matter your dread level / towtope tension / whatever). She's entitled to her emotions and actions as you are to yours. There may be consequences, but everyone only controls themselves.

It's harder now that I'm understanding the power dynamics at play.

Why is it harder? If anything, knowing the real rules should make things easier. Does it make you face the fact that in your current state, you don't have options?

[–]cleanthes_conscious[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Does it make you face the fact that in your current state, you don't have options?

Yes.

STFU doesn't mean "never make mouth sounds", it means "state your piece simply, then stop talking".

This is an important distinction that I need to practice.

My challenge with Strategos' approach is that it's damn close to an FMOFY ultimatum. I ain't there yet.

The real answer is probably to find the nuanced approach that works for me and quit thinking like there's a "cheat code" that I need to find.

In my case at DL < 3 a more passive negative approach is probably the right move.

Why is it harder?

It's harder to contain my anger when facing these power plays now that I know what they are.

I faded into being a faggot over 9 years cause it's easy.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

There's another way of approaching the Strategos methodology. She's manipulating you. She's not actually negotiating with you for sex. She's trying to get you to feel guilty for your actions and change your behavior by dangling the carrot of sexual access in front of you. For me, the best response is to not play that game. It becomes a tit for tat.

Instead my approach would simply be to call out the behavior for what it is. "Oh dear. Do you want to change our relationship to a transactional one? Do I understand that correctly? I have to do xyz and then you reward me with sex? I'm afraid I can't have a relationship based on that. You're either in or you're not."

Now here, she'll hamster. She'll tell you how she can't feel sexy if you do xyz, blah blah blah, but you use your best WISNIFG, and fog her and broken record her.

We've all had this discussion, the" you have to say your sorry or else!" the thing is, you don't. You tell her," if you want an apology you ask for it, full stop. I don't expect you to command me and I don't expect you to do the same. I have a choice right?"

Sometimes these discussions come from her feeling unacknowledged. I've simply told my wife "hey I understand you feel this way, and it's OK. Your feelings are yours and I'm cool with that."

Shes even asked "but are you sorry"

And if I tell her no, she either accepts it, or comes to terms that I'm not sorry.

You may need to ask yourself why she feels the need to put demands on you. Maybe it's simply she feels she's not being heard? Or maybe years of conditioning have taught her that this is the correct approach. In the long run you need to change her behavior to something more acceptable.

[–]cleanthes_conscious[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you. This the kind of personal tailoring of the information that I'm gathering here that I need to get better at.

You may need to ask yourself why she feels the need to put demands on you. Maybe it's simply she feels she's not being heard? Or maybe years of conditioning have taught her that this is the correct approach. In the long run you need to change her behavior to something more acceptable.

Yes. It's a bit of both. Her emotional storms have worked to beat me down in the past. However, since I've started implementing what I'm learning here, she has also remarked that she feels like I don't listen to her.

I'm still finding that line between being more assertive and being a dick who doesn't listen. Or, being a dick who doesn't listen is cool if you're leading somewhere exciting, which I am not yet.

[–]crimson_chris4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

What would you do if your kids were out of line? Take the same approach. Well, unless you don't have kids or are a pushover as a dad.

If she withholds sex as a weapon A) she values sex (and what she gets from sex) less than you B) she does not fear losing anything as a byproduct of withholding sex.

Eitherway you cut it, she does not value your time and attention or you give it too freely.

Women like to live above their means. If she thinks you are beneath her you are in for a shitty ride.

[–]alphasixfour2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Recently went though this almost exactly but to a lesser extent as part of a fairly minor shit test from my wife. Just upped the AM and then STFU. She demanded that I apologize for something minor that I said, and meant. She called me smug and cocky and I just made some lame joke about my cock.

I blew her off as “cute when she was angry” amplified and pressure flipped when she demanded again. “Why should I apologize? I meant it.” Hamster got spinning. Then I just stfu and ignored rebuffs. Kept up kino and initiation but just smiled and withdrew presence when rebuffed.

I am only 4-5 months in myself dread level 2 entering 3. I still fail a ton of shit tests but I am proud of this one.

The key for me was to be outcome independent when it came to sex, and made passing the shit test and annoying her hamster my outcome goal.

I was slapping her ass and grabbing her, initiating when we were both on our way out in the morning. She got pissed and told me to stop. I slapped her ass again and asked “or what?” With a laugh. Then left for work.

That night I did again and she was a different person. Sweet again. Receptive. She said “I like this stuff when you are being nice to me”. Thing was MY behavior hadn’t changed. I still hadn’t apologized. Her hamster made her forget why she was mad at me and just let her cave to feels.

I tried to be cocky and amused pressure flipped again and asked her why this was any different? Hamster again. Asked what she was so mad about? Confirmed that she had forgotten. Then I said okay lets talk when there is a problem. Until then let’s fuck. Hamster tried really hard. I did a broken record repeat and pushed her onto the bed and proceeded to have rough sex with her. Problem solved.

I don’t write this to brag it up I know my game is rote and still awkward but this was a similar situation earlier this week and this is the first time I’ve sat down and analyzed it. Thanks for posting this topic so I could.

[–]Alpha_Engineer995 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

You are doing great, don’t fuck it up by asking her how she feelz.. her feelz are none of your concern.

  • Don’t ask about how this is different
  • Don’t ask about why she was mad
  • Fucks sake, certainly don’t suggest a “talk” when there is a problem..

There shouldn’t even be a “problem” if you start acting like King Dick. You gave her some predictive programming there suggesting there will be an upcoming problem.

Less talking. More doing.

[–]alphasixfour1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Solid advice. Thanks. I asked all of those questions sarcastically in attempt to use them as a pressure flip, and it was more like don’t talk to me unless there is a problem... but you’re right I still asked them and cared too much about her feelz.

Thanks.

[–]RedPill-BlackLotusRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you give into this what's to stop her from using it for everything?

[–]screechhaterRed Beret1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy

Keep initiating when you want sex.

Laugh at her like a little girl when she says no.

At some point, you have to look in the mirror and decide what you added to the argument or situation to get here. Then don’t do it again

Part of the conflicting advice is that you are not fully relaying, giving snipits. However, there are some that approach a situation like this with abundance and AM and others as a boundary of disrespect, but you have to decide what you find acceptable.

My wife, I think, actually gets off on telling me no. Seriously. She now knows that I am on the razors edge of making a decision to fully nuke us after 25 years. But part of me just sits back and just laughs at her bullshit antics.

The stay plan is same as the go plan. Keep working on you.

You use the info here to carve out your life. But, make a decision for what’s best with you

I have told my wife how pissed I was and I have held some shit over her head to make a point myself, and she did make some changes, but I just don’t really give a fuck

Currently, I’m tired, and truly, her “no’s” don’t even phase me.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

My wife, I think, actually gets off on telling me no. Seriously. She now knows that I am on the razors edge of making a decision to fully nuke us after 25 years. But part of me just sits back and just laughs at her bullshit antics.

I think mine gets off on crying about how I don't give a shit about her. Same ol routine over and over. Trying to be a little more comforting lately. Wife also knows I'm near the nuke button... Well, she found the papers and knows I fucked other women. Told her I'd give her the house and find a new place if she'd be generous with my time w the kids. Funny when you hit that complete DNGAF level how they just kind of keep hanging around.

I have told my wife how pissed I was and I have held some shit over her head to make a point myself, and she did make some changes, but I just don’t really give a fuck

Same. Owned up to it recently. I do still have one foot out the door though. Would be good with splitting my week between kids, lifting, music, friends, plates. I'd be busy and living a fulfilling life. I'm accepting that the nuclear family is not required and is maybe more of a luxury for wife and kids. Wife should be the one trying to keep that luxury. Eventually I'll kill that desire completely and I can be truly OI. Working on that. Until then, there are a few BP strings still manipulating me.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Funny when you hit that complete DNGAF level how they just kind of keep hanging around.

And how when you finally decide that initiating sex with this person is not worth it she suddenly becomes flirty, drops the shit tests, and start actively initiating sex with you.

I have reluctantly reached the conclusion that DNGAF works because women ALWAYS use sex as a weapon. They use sex to torture, manipulate, and control the man in one way or another. If you DNGAF, then the only way she can use sex as a weapon is to fuck your brains out. If you DO give a fuck, then she can play her hurtful denial games and string you along until you snap.

Therefore, a husband today MUST NOT GIVE A FUCK about sex with his wife. The simplest solution is to cultivate other options and if the wife wants to play her games you leave.

I like the answer: "You win, I am not going to have sex with YOU tonight." Then leave for the weekend and hold frame like a motherfucker when you get back. She will be screaming, crying, threatening divorce- but her rate of sexual denials will go down to less than 10%.

I wish we had gentler methods for the man to "win" but advanced Dread Game that cultivates a truly DNGAF attitude so that you no longer rely on your wife for your full sexual gratification is really the only way to win.

Women have all the power and you cannot take away her almighty right to say "no." However, you CAN take away all of her other options and you can provide very severe consequences for her hurtful games. Remember, it is about power and control, not sex.

Everything in life is about sex except sex. Sex is about power.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I wish we had gentler methods for the man to "win" but advanced Dread Game that cultivates a truly DNGAF attitude so that you no longer rely on your wife for your full sexual gratification is really the only way to win.

I went through a phase in the beginning, when I started getting results, where I was thinking... Why do I have to treat her this way? I can't believe I treated her so sweetly for so many years for nothing but a wife who preferred to sit on the couch and get high than fuck me. We never had a dead bedroom, just lackluster sex life and boring home life. Posted recently about all the "main events" I'm getting. It's annoying, yeah, but I'm getting laid like a fucking warlord. What's worse?

[–]DanceMonkeeDanceRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, and we need more FRs like that. I went through a phase at the beginning where I didn't see the big picture because, like you, I didn't have a dead bedroom, it just wasn't the sex I wanted and the home life was boring. MRP is the answer to a host of problems, not just dead bedroom.

[–]ImSteveMcQueen0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

So well stated, BPP.

[–]ImSteveMcQueen0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Funny when you hit that complete DNGAF level how they just kind of keep hanging around.

This is so true. I think they expect you to blink and resume loving them. Like WTF ? Where have you been for the last few years ?

You are living in a bad relationship, you are trying to improve things and she does everything in her power to resist change. So you decide to leave and you do. Then they start playing all these games that involve delaying your move out. Then once you do move out, all friggin hell breaks lose because they are angry and bitter. Really ?

It is amazing how much power women think they have over men and how shattered they are when they learn they don't.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Trusted contributors here seem to diverge on how to handle this

That is because different strategies work with different women and relationships. Figure out what works for you given the stage of your relationship.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

weaponizing sex. I’d never really heard of this until coming here. I’ve had multiple LTRs in my life and fucked up more shit in marriage than can be recounted; and I’ve never once heard the words “I will not have sex with you until you do or don’t do X”. Not once.

Any such ultimatum should be a merciless hard next. We shoot terrorist; we don’t negotiate with them.

[–]ImSteveMcQueen1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

The divorce rate is going to be very high on this board.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

So , what’s your point?

[–]ImSteveMcQueen0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

When you are married, a hard next = divorce. Women these days have the mindset that they have the power. When you challenge them they pull out the nuke option: sex.

This woman doesn't want an apology. That isn't the issue. She wants an apology and for him to fall back in line, like he used to be.

Would a slower escalation of power removal from her avoid her using the sex card ?

[–]PersaeusRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sure it would ; but I don’t care. I have never tolerated an open ultimatum from anyone and I never will. I would have rather burn it all down. It’s probably why I’ve been given so few of them.

[–]A-day-one0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The level of happy, physically healthy people is also going to be higher relative to the overall population.

[–]BobbyPeru0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Keep working up the dread levels along wit STFU and removing time.

Use that time productivity— lift, social life... become awesome

BTW, The stay plan is the same as the go plan.

[–]Tebulus0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Same shit different day. Leaving needs to be an option at all times. First thing: Boundaries. It also sounds like you are still not fully committing to fix the bullshit or divorce because of oneitis. From your OYS she definitely needs to have your boundaries clarified to her. Losing your shit at dad in front of kids is a big no no and you should isolate her and inform her that your wife will not lose her shit in front of the kids or be disrespectful to you in front of the kids for any reason. Then broken record and then leave with the kids if you need/want to.

Stfu does not mean do not talk no matter what happens. It is a tool for helping you not respond emotionally in a charged conversation so you can take a minute and respond properly. Removing time and attention is for communicating covertly that you are not satisfied with something she said or did, not as a response to a boundary violation. It is effective because this is how women communicate to each other and its something the majority will respond to.

I'd call that an active-positive approach.

How is this positive? Letting her control the tone of your interaction from beginning to end and then allowing her to resume communicating with you normally with zero repercussions is not a net positive outcome. Thats how you end up with the same problem you started with 3 months later. You can choose to not let that behavior affect you emotionally, but tolerating it is not ok. Red Curious is a smart guy with good ideas, but he is not an endorsed contributor and hes been around less than a year so take it with a grain of salt.

[–]cleanthes_conscious[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for the Boundaries link.

This:

When you start enforcing boundaries, your wife might be upset and act up more. This is very frustrating. Just accept that it is your own fault: you gave her this territory because you didn’t defend it. Now you want it and she had internalized it was hers. It isn’t her fault, it is yours for not defending the terrain.

and this:

Acting to defend the boundary with behaviors (not words) is the way to communicate the boundary in a way she understands it.

are the keys.

[–]capn_barnacles0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

IMO the active-positive approach would be appropriate for a one time rejection. I think more consistent hard no's over a longer period of time are worthy of removing time and attention. Removing time and attention after a single hard no (after some/many positive responses) feels a little butt-hurt to me.

I think you need to be further along in your dread levels before using the active-negative approach. That sounds like it's approaching a FMOFY tone, which is way down the list.

[–]kendallb1830 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

My absolute favorite is to say "oh wow, that's not like you at all, no problem blah blah and move on like nothing happened. It's a great pressure flip

[–]The_LitzRed Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Did she actually say she won't have sex with you until you apologise or did you come to that conclusion?

OP, it sounds like you are still afraid if upsetting her and walking on eggshells.

But lets look at her. She is holding the relationship as a hostage. She is willing to die on that hill to be right.

Right now you are looking for tips on knife fighting and she is standing there waiting with a gun. You do not see how serious she is too win.

The bigger issue from what I gathered from your posts is the yelling at you in front of the kids. She is a cunt and you are wishing it away by distracting yourself with theories of what to call different types of time withdrawals.

You are beating around the bush, the actual issue at stake here is her HUGE disrespect of you. That is what is at the heart here, not her weaponising sex. That is a secondary problem.

As an aside, I am curious, what was this shitshow about?

[–]cleanthes_conscious[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

she is standing there waiting with a gun

Good analogy, and ironic given the shitshow was about this:

I live in a very rural area. Hunting is huge here. I own guns and I hunt. My wife is not a big gun fan and we agree that our kids are too young to shoot and that they must take a hunter's safety course prior to handling any type of firearm. My guns are locked up and safe. Since hunting is huge here there are all kinds of groups dedicated to the preservation of different species that are hunted. Think: Whitetails Unlimited or Ducks Unlimited. These groups have big fundraising banquets with auctions, raffles, silent auctions, etc. where you can win hunting supplies and guns. They all strongly promote youth hunting.

So I take my 7-year old son to the latest banquet. This is his second one. He's been with me to one before. I play some games, try to win guns as usual (I attend these regularly). Many kids are present. I let him participate in some of the games. We're having a great time together. I let him "play" a blackjack game where, if you beat the dealer, you're entered into a drawing to win a shotgun. I pay for two hands and the little fucker gets King/Ace, Queen/Ace. We celebrate and we get two chances to win the gun. Lo and behold our ticket is drawn and I let him feel like he won the gun. He's excited. Life is good.

Now, I should clarify that he does not get possession of the gun. I fill out background check paperwork, the gun transfer is registered to me, and I have to wait at least 24 hours before I can get the gun from the dealer. My kid never touches it. 2 days later I pick up the gun and it comes straight home and is locked up with the others.

So the next morning wife asks how the banquet was. I laugh and say "Great! Son won a gun!".

Commence shitshow.

She's pissed about him being exposed to guns. Keeps referring to how I "bought her 7-year old a gun". Says she can't be attracted to someone who buys her 7-year old a gun.

I didn't do myself any favors here. I maybe should not have allowed him to feel like he won it in the first place. The timing and all the mainstream media bullshit about guns doesn't help. She thinks she's a liberal and pays attention to that garbage.

None of that really matters though. This is about power. Nothing was really hurt but her feelz and I'm not kowtowing to her emotions.

[–]cleanthes_conscious[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Did she actually say she won't have sex with you until you apologise or did you come to that conclusion?

2 initiations and 2 hard no's with an added "I want an apology for xxx".

the actual issue at stake here is her HUGE disrespect of you.

You are correct. I was critical of myself and my handling of her shit show in my OYS. I don't get a do - over though. Only get to slap down this present challenge effectively.

I'll detail the issue when I'm at a keyboard. Phone posting is not my forte.



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