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Thinking about Talking, Not Acting ?

Reddit View
April 7, 2017
6 upvotes

Okay, folks. I posted something in a SteveMcQueen thread the other day that I think has been deleted, but it got me wondering.

I am about six months into my MAP. Body is getting there (SMV's have switched places), attitude is not needy/whiny, I have developed some of my own hobbies and social networks, taken proactive steps to fix the house, dress better, etc. Clean my personal areas and generally less of a slob, doing my own laundry and now cooking a little, dropped the fast food and soda pop along with the weight. Earnings are good, we have plenty of income/savings.

Things I need to work on: Manage spending/budget, Get off the youtube when I work at home, time management for work. I would like to find ways to get her to benefit from my social networks, to add value to her life. Finally, I need to stop being a dumbass who forgets things he is told or fails to follow-through on commitments. Little stuff like yes, I will sanitize hands for the youngest when we leave the library. Yes it's a little compliancy but to commit and forget is even worse.

The big problem is leading.

Stay at home, homeschooling mom is clinging to the driver's wheel as if her life depended on it.

We've got a lot of history and issues. I went redpill rambo last August, ended up out of the house for two weeks.

Now she is totally frigid and rejects every form of intimacy, tells me she has no feelings for me, doesn't want to celebrate our anniversary, etc. I'm fine with this in the "silent treatment is a gift" way, but it's awfully hard to be fun/happy when you are rejected in every way.

I know a lot of people here would say next. I am not asking for advice on that decision. Six months into my MAP and taking stoicism seriously, I have a pretty "so what" approach to sex. I'd take it, even pursue it, but I don't NEEEED it for validation the way I did six months ago. I know I could go get it in the world reasonably easily, which somehow makes me not NEEEEED it. Seeing the older kids distrust or appear to hate me is hard, but some of that I caused, and that would get much worse in a divorce.

She tells me that she is tired of living with a sword hanging over her head. (Meaning, I could leave at any time.) When she says this I STFU and try to change the subject. I know she wants me to say "oh honey, I LUVVVV you I PROMISE To never leave you", but it's a trap. She'll say she has no reason to believe me, that past experience proves blah blah blah blah blah.

I'm not interested in getting in conversation traps.

Here's my question:

I want to ask, out loud "You know what you need to do to keep me here. It is consistent with your wedding vows and our faith. You don't, can't, or won't do it. Each of us has limits on what we will tolerate. Who put the sword there, again?"

This is not BluePill victim puke, I don't think. Nor can I find a way to explain this with actions. She seems to interpret everything in the wrong way. It could be a borderline thing - all her actions seem to be designed to get me to leave, yet she is scared that I will leave.

Anyway, I'm thinking of dropping that phrase out loud, then not pursuing follow-up conversation. Just let it hang out there. It seems to violate acta, non verba, but this is not week 1 of my MAP, and honestly, my wife is pretty masculine at this point.

Does dropping these words seem like a good idea ?

They are what I want to do and they don't seem to me like the kind of whiny, needy, statements I would have made six months ago. I expect she'll interpret them as a threat, to which I will reply "well, that's no different than what you thought last night when you complained about the sword, right? I just wanted to get the record straight."

Then I exit stage left to go do something else.


Post Information
Title Thinking about Talking, Not Acting ?
Author logger1234
Upvotes 6
Comments 42
Date 07 April 2017 01:30 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/206307
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/640dnz/thinking_about_talking_not_acting/
Similar Posts

Red Pill terms found in post:
MAPsexual market valuethe red pillthe blue pill
Comments

[–][deleted] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children) | Copy

OK, been going back, reading through. 9 months, and still on training wheels, asking basic shit questions, and have established 0 frame.

Your time here is done friend. MRP and playing for realsies is in your immediate future

[–]anythingincRed Beret7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

is totally frigid and rejects every form of intimacy, has no feelings for me..."tired of living with a sword hanging over head"

"You know what you need to do to keep me here. It is consistent with your wedding vows and our faith. You don't, can't, or won't do it. Each of us has limits on what we will tolerate. Who put the sword there, again?"

Exactly what I'm doing is fine with me, and is apparently fine for you

Right, that's what you're not ready for. Your statement is designed to start a fight, it is a step into her shitty frame and she is going to probably win, but even worse than what you both might say to each other afterwards, is what she is already saying with her actions...

I'm raising my kids, you enable this, and I expect nothing else from you and you will get nothing in return.

You're asking if you're at "Fuck me or fuck you." If you're not ready to leave with divorce papers in the drawer, then you are not there I don't think.

Each of us has limits on what we will tolerate.

Oh yeah? Seems like she will tolerate anything to be enabled to raise her kids, and you will tolerate anything to not be divorced. It is a thinly veiled ultimatum with no teeth.

but it's awfully hard to be fun/happy when you are rejected in every way.

So you let her set the frame for the household?

Seeing the older kids distrust or appear to hate me

If you haven't won over your kids again I don't think you can expect to win over her yet. I've seen your posts in codependency and getting_over_it and here, and I can see that YOU are better...and that is awesome and that is the first step, YOU have to be better...but what happens then is that YOU being better translates into your FAMILY being better. Potentially, you haven't crossed a threshold of improvement or mindset or frame strength to where it can envelop and affect your family. At some point, your improvements should lead to benevolence towards your family. I don't see benevolence. I see a hateful bitch and the man that resents her and the kids caught in a dysfunctional household. Before you were a martyr, you've decided you can't live like a martyr anymore, but you haven't reached the point where you can be benevolent. You're religious. Christ wasn't a blue-pill martyr bitch, he was a great, benevolent man. Everything he accomplished wasn't purely by sacrifice and martyrdom, or just by the power of being god incarnate. Be Christlike, be great, then be benevolent/loving/kind/generous/fun/gentle, that is how you win hearts and minds.

6 months ago you were not the man that could do this. Wade into this maelstrom, put life jackets on your family, and drag them to shore, you were in there drowning and flailing too. Again, Step 1, save yourself, put your life jacket on, I think you are really close to that. But after that you are going to have to wade back in for your family. Ask any lifeguard, they are not going to be responsible, they are going to try to kill you, they will flail and push you down so they can get a breath of air, they want to live, but they only know to fight and flail. You're not Jesus, you're not going to be able to walk on the water and pluck them up. You're going to have to find the strength, swim out there, take a beating, keep you head above the water, and put on their life jackets. Surely you can get them on your kids, but your wife might prefer to drown, and hold them back too. You're going to have to be great and benevolent to convince them to follow you to shore.

And man, I know this sucks, TBP disses us all the time for this:

Not getting the results you want? MRP HARDER!!!

But ya know, that is all we have. That is all we can do. Be better, or leave.

[–]PurpleVeteranRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Fantastic analogy, thanks for that.

[–]SgtSilverBack1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The lifeguard analogy is an awesome perspective.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

She's calling your bluff.

Any wonder why you are not confused on what to do next?

PROTIP for others: This is why you don't open your fucking mouth, OP put himself in a position where he either leaves, or admits he was talking tough, and loses power in their relationship.

Yeah, I'll bet it felt real good at the time to puff your chest

Also, the kids don't care, they only know what mom and dad tell them. Surprised in all your chest thumping, you didn't once put a line in the sand over weaponizing the children

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

what chest thumping?

I'm confused. What did I do to puff my chest? When did I open my mouth?

I've edited the post for clarity.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Aka, went rambo.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Damn. There is so much hamtersing in this post it's making my dick itch.

  • Step 1. Stop being a faggot
  • Step 2. Close your cock holster
  • Step 3. Get out of her frame.

This whole post is bullshit. Hamstering, feminine Frame bullshit.

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yup. It's a post looking for a pat on the back.

[–]ImSteveMcQueen2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

I have a couple thoughts on this because I have the same thought from time to time about sitting her down and discussing things.

The problem with talking to a woman is that it engages her hamster and then it becomes a debate that she rationalizes. Chances are you'll start DEERing and then everything is up for debate. It totally sidetracks the whole process.

She can and will hamster when she sees something with her own eyes. But it is physical, it is real. It isn't up for debate. When she sees it again and again it is pretty hard for her to put a spin on it.

When she gets up every day and sees that Logger has lost weight and has his morning shit together, she can't hamster that, day after day. That shit is real. She also gets to acclimatize to it over a period of time. When you have a face to face discussion, facts come at you in a matter of seconds.

Another aspect is that women get told and promised things by men all the time, only about 1/3 of which ever comes true. It is pretty hard for them to believe stuff when they hear it. They want to see it.

Acta non verba is powerful stuff.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Why? You think shes stupid and doesnt know?

She knows, she doesnt care

Either be good enough that she has to care, or you will find someone who does. Thats how you speak, your puny man words mean nothing. Less than nothing, because youre asking a conservative for pussy welfare, dont be surorised if they tell you to fuck off

[–]ImSteveMcQueen0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I already stated talking doesn't work. Not sure why you are replying to my post with this comment.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, been on the warpath today, you got caught up. The self reflection I read as hamstering.

[–]The_LitzRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Dude dude dude, I read your post without checking who posted it. Halfway through I realised this sounds like shit Logger used to write 6 months ago.

You are starting to get it, how did you regress to this post? I think the stalemate has gotten the better of you. Fuck knows, it would get to me if I were in your shoes.

I still think you should next her. What has improved? You have improved but she is still sitting there waiting for you to fail and get over the phase you are going through. She knows you won't divorce so the only other option is too freeze you out till you come around.

You are better than this.

[–]BrazilRedPill1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy

She knows that. She just doesn't want to fuck you right now, she doesn't find you attractive enough.

What you have to do is follow the 12 steps of dread. Follow the timeline bluepillprofessor came up, don't rush things.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

so don't drop the words, she already knows it? That makes some sense.

I would feel better saying it. What negative repercussions could it have?

[–]WesternhagenWinner1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Come on, man. Do you think your wife doesn't know she's supposed to fuck you? Of course she knows. She just doesn't want to.

The negative repercussion for saying it is when you don't follow through by leaving after you say it and she still won't fuck you. Then you will both know who's got the power (hint: not you). Don't issue that ultimatum unless you're ready to follow through. Are you really ready for the "fuck me or fuck you" conversation?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

no, that's ~6 months off, maybe never. So her comment about the sword, if I respond, either "calls my bluff" or gets me to back down? Interesting.

[–]WesternhagenWinner0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You have read WISNIFG, right? It provides techniques for responding assertively to statements like "I am tired of living with a sword hanging over my head" without giving a premature/unnecessary ultimatum.

[–]innominating0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You are confused. We don't give a fuck what would make you feel better, neither does your wife. The only thing that matters is what you are.

Consider it well enough and you'll realize what you say doesn't make you feel shit in the longterm, what you do means everything.

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What negative repercussions could it have?

You lose all credibility if you don't follow through. Your boundaries mean nothing; your frame is an act. You reset to Day 0 in her mind in terms of respect and dread.

[–]ParadoxThatDrivesUs1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

If she doesn't want to, how will this help?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

It's a pressure flip. It takes a whiny, victimy comment by her and puts it back on her shoulders, where it belongs. It restores adult-to-adult communication.

[–]JDRoedellRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Adult to adult communication, in the sense we know it, only exists between men.

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"You're the one talking about divorce, not me. You know that I want a complete, loving, and christian marriage with you. Only say the word, and our marriage shall be healed."

Then broken record any attempts of hers to put the blame back on you.

The difference is that this is a non-supplicating invitation to reconcile by entering your frame, whereas your OP is a blame-shifting Dread Level 9 threat, which requires you to follow through soon with Dread Level 10 to retain any respect. Do you see the difference? Try the high road first.

[–]rp_findingmyway1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Funny, details of your life sound a bit like mine (homeschooling, sanitary hands requirement, etc.).

Regarding your question, I would STFU. She knows what's up, no use articulating it further.

But where's the dread in your relationship? Wife doesn't want to fuck you right now, fine. But you have posted about being a man about town, getting IOI's everywhere. Does she see/know this, or are you in her mind still just the numbskull at home who's finally getting some semblance of his shit together?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Funny, details of your life sound a bit like mine

You got links for your story I can mine for insight?

Does she see/know this, or are you in her mind still just the numbskull at home who's finally getting some semblance of his shit together?

I think this is a borderline thing. Yes, she sees me improving, yes, she hears compliments from other members of the church. In her eyes, I think, my success is her failure. Or something. (We don't go out in public together much ... ever anymore. No dates, no restaurants. It's weird. She'll refuse.)

Until I lead the family, which she is fighting tooth and nail, she'll just see my physique and clothes etc as playing dress-up and be jealous that she has to do all the hard work while I spend "hours and hours at the gym".

The more I think about it, I have work to do, the words aren't crap.

[–]rp_findingmyway0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I've got a few comments up. I mostly have my shit together so I read for amusement here but rarely post. Ask if you have any specific questions.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

When has talking worked in the past?

You know what you need to do to keep me here. It is consistent with your wedding vows and our faith.

She does know. She doesn't care. You know this from her actions. What is bringing this into an overt conversation going to do for you?

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I'll be nicer. Help edit your post so it makes more sense and to the point.

Okay, folks. I posted something in a SteveMcQueen thread the other day that I think has been deleted, but it got me wondering.

*BULLSHIT HAMSTERING*

Okay, folks. I posted something in a SteveMcQueen thread the other day that I think has been deleted, but it got me wondering.

What about you? There is no action here. There is nothing here about you. All about what you are going to do to convince her.

There's nothing here about the steps you taking. The self evaluation. Introspection. Improvement.

And I swear to the unmerciful gods in the universe that if you post gym stats that are worse then my girlfriend's I am going to loose it

[–]rp_findingmyway0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

And I swear to the unmerciful gods in the universe that if you post gym stats that are worse then my girlfriend's I am going to loose it

Clearly the funniest post of the day. Well done!

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for the link. I literally laughed out loud at those stats.

[–]ImSteveMcQueen1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Now she is totally frigid and rejects every form of intimacy, tells me she has no feelings for me, doesn't want to celebrate our anniversary, etc. I'm fine with this in the "silent treatment is a gift" way, but it's awfully hard to be fun/happy when you are rejected in every way.

I have a solution for this. Don't give her an opportunity to reject you. Don't ask for her affection and acknowledgement and don't initiate.

I agree that there is a time and a place for IOI and that sex needs to be part of a healthy relationship. But you don't have a healthy relationship at this point and asking her for these things puts her in the power position and makes you look weak and needy. So don't do it for a while.

The next time you need affirmation from her, figure out what you can do to get positive re enforcement from somewhere else. Go work out at the gym where you know someone is going to give you props. Go give your child a hug. Spend time with your buddies. Do ANYTHING but be in close proximity to her and wanting her attention. Because if she is pissed with you, she ain't going to give it, no matter if you have earned it or not. It is the most powerful weapon she has against you. It keeps you hungry and weak and her in power.

It used to bug me that my wife doesn't compliment me. I asked her about it once before RP and she said she just isn't like that. And then I noticed her mother has the same behavior, so it is probably something she learned at home.

I think this behavior is a hypergamy strategy. If a woman denies a good man of his rightful praise and affection, she can "keep him down" and keep him for herself. I've seen high school girls do this to guys that are considering going off to college.

A few weeks back we were at a social gathering and I was having a beverage with a couple guys I see irregularly. And right in front of my wife they were giving me props about how good I'm looking and how much I've changed the last few months. I could see that she was pissed that they thought this. My chest is bulging out of my shirts and my pants are falling off my butt and she hasn't once acknowledged that I look better or even different.

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Quoting from the Doctor of Dread himself, /u/BluepillProfessor

Dread Level 9: This is the lynchpin. It is time to speak plainly but don’t start issuing ultimatums. Instead, Dread at this level is an implied and credible, but still as yet unspoken threat. If it has not worked before now and you are approaching Athol Kay's "Option A" or "Option B" point (i.e. start fucking me like I need or I am filing for divorce). Note this is the END of a LONG process. Give the first 7 steps about 1 month for every year of your marriage where you have been a Beta toe stub pushover BUT, it is finally time to start speaking in masculine language- directly and up front. After yet another sexual denial just look her in the eye and say something like: "You know I need to have sex with you to have a relationship. You understand this is a biological need for men, right?" Don't argue, don't get into emotional blackmail. Leave it hanging in the air and then disappear for several hours. I recommend you continue doing this a couple more times in different contexts. Avoid getting into drama or an argument. Your goal at this level is to inform her in no uncertain terms about your expectations WITHOUT getting drawn into a battle. When you are getting along pretty well, ask her what you can do together to get to the requirements that you have for the marriage. This stage can last only a couple of weeks but may last longer. Writers recommend that you not let this hang for very long or you risk going all the way back to the beginning. If it becomes clear that your wife is not going to meet your demands, there is only one thing you can do after you read your Bible and pray.

What you're suggesting is exactly Dread Level 9. So yes, not only can you do this, at some point you should do this. But

Writers recommend that you not let this hang for very long or you risk going all the way back to the beginning.

You have to be ready to move on to Dread Level 10 in a few weeks at most from there.

Are you ready?

[–]drty_prRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Do you think she will start fucking you out of desperation to save her marriage because a threat you made and suddenly she'll realize "Hey, this is actually really fun. Why haven't I been getting logged by the logger all these years?". Come on man. Fuck.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Are you ready to walk away? That's the key here.

You're afraid of your wife. Little things like being anxious about hand sanitizer after the library, are you fucking kidding? (by the way hand sanitizer is horrible for kids. I won't let my kids near it, but what do I know having 20 years in that industry)

The reason you don't convey words is simple. You give content she hears feelings.

Put her shit on the front step and tell her to Fuck me or fuck you. That's acta non verbal.

[–]drty_prRed Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

by the way hand sanitizer is horrible for kids. I won't let my kids near it, but what do I know having 20 years in that industry

I would rather like an elaboration on this.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

It removes natural oils and drys out your hands, for starters. Plus exposing your kids to normal environmental bacteria is good for long term immune health. http://www.webmd.com/parenting/features/kids-and-dirt-germs

[–]drty_prRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Lol. My wife's aunt was trying to get my boys to wash their hands for dinner one time. They looked at her like she had a penis on her forehead. We only wash dirt or harmful bacteria off their hands.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You ain't even scratched the surface of MRP........... Trust me, you'll know when and what to say in the main event. You ain't had one yet

I had massive down votes on some of my IDGAF attitude and stoic behavior on with my SO and her meltdowns, including yawning when I asked her if she was quite done. That's frame fucker.

The simple fact she is rattling you with "she is tired of living with a sword hanging over her head" and you want to say something after the fact, stewing on it, means you are in her frame.

am concerned you are bringing up the anniversary. Fuck her, throw a block party, invite her parents and yours and shame her if she doesn't show up. But whatever you do, have a good time

Intimacy, AA and laugh in her face She is an entitled teen, and you are allowing it

The big question is "Who in the fuck are you ?" And, it's time to truly decide what matters. Is it getting her approval or validation or pussy ? Is it your resolute happiness ? Well ? Who the fuck are you and what is it going to take to actually apply the principles ?

Stop demanding respect and earn it Acta non verba, mother fucker

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Being benevolent could help. I know you don't want to leave, probably because of kids. You need to face the fact that your happiness is not dependent on whether your kids like you. You have a shitty woman poisoning them against you. It's a no-win situation.

Maybe just stop caring so much about your family

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Why not act instead of talk?

First, you must truly OYS with respect to the family and household. That must be locked down tight.

Once that's in place, take control of the treasury. Your income goes into a sole account, from which you transfer a fixed amount to a sole account owned by her for groceries and other family expenses, and a modest allowance you grant her. Close all joint credit-card accounts and any others of hers that you have co-signed for; she gets a debit card on her sole account.

Next, you thoroughly investigate the school options for your older girls and the day-care options for your youngest, select the best, and enroll them for the coming school year.

Then, you inform your wife that you're not satisfied with her contributions to the family. Since you're not living as a biblical family but as a separated couple living in the same house, you expect her to get a job to contribute her fair share of income to the household. This means that she will have to stop home-schooling, and that your two older girls will be attending public/parochial school starting in August. You inform her that you have already made the arrangements, and that you expect her job to start no later than the first day of school.

You must plan your reaction to her various possible responses beforehand.

  • She refuses and ignores: You cut her allowance to a survival minimum and carry on with school plans for older daughters.

  • She threatens divorce: You tell her that you would prefer a biblical marriage and life with her, but that the status quo is unacceptable to you. If she wants a divorce so be it, but you won't initiate it, and you also won't hide from parents, family, friends, priests, etc. the reasons (deadbedroom, her cold and disrespectful behavior toward you) why this is happening. You can't stop her from leaving, but you are not leaving your house, and you will fight for shared custody.

  • She buckles and says she will try to change: You inform her of your expectations, you say that you're happy to give it a try. You will keep the arrangements for August in place for now, and evaluate then whether the plan will be reconsidered.

If you don't have the value, OYS, will, and frame to do this, adjust your MAP to focus on getting there.



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