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[–]WesternhagenWinner13 points14 points15 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Nothing inspires dread in a woman like "if you won't fuck me, I have no better alternative than my hand".
[–]trp_ocd18 points9 points10 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I actually think that done with proper timing and tone, would be rub until near climax in the next room then jump into the room, flip on the lights and scream bloody murder at the top if your lungs, flinging jizz at her direction, hitting face, pillow, wall, nightstand. Then just calmly leave.
[–]InChargeManRed Beret-1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Lol, not sure if you are being sarcastic or not.
[–]2ndalRed Beret1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
He is.
[–]discobolus_9 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Why stop at home? I do this when the 19 year old barista won't tell me what time she gets off work.
[–]F1shtowner 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago* (29 children) | Copy Link
In a non RP lurker but this is Ask MRP so here goes:
I often see advice about not acting butthurt but then leaving to instill dread if the wife declines sex. Is the goal to simply not act butthurt or is it to not actually BE butthurt? I ask because the advice about leaving the house in the middle of the night because you have better things to do etc. seems designed to evoke a reaction (dread) in the wife, which indicates to me some level of butthurt.
What kind of non butthurt guy plays these passive aggressive games to scare his wife?
The other advice I see is "If she's not fucking you she's not attracted to you." Keeping attraction and sex up in a long term marriage is damn hard. I honestly believe if every guy here looked like [insert famous alpha here] you may get laid slightly more but there would still be times when the wife did not want sex.
Because being a parent is fucking tiring.
I'm not sure that's a question so much as an observation.
[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
Is the goal to simply not act butthurt or is it to not actually BE butthurt?
The goal is to be real and genuine- and if you can't, then fake it till you make it.
[–]F1shtowner 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
I'm just saying, attempting to initiate sex, getting shot down and then abruptly leaving the house is always going to come off as butthurt. What kind of message are you trying to send? "I was going to fuck you but my backup plan was to go work out if you're not interested - no biggie."
I guess my point is that dread comes off to me like passive aggression, which is extremely "beta." If you're not getting the type or frequency of sex you want why not tell the wife? Or put effort into it? Or change your situation if it's changeable?
I'm only addressing you with these questions because you responded.
[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
why not tell the wife?
Because that has been tried many times. Talk talk talk talk talk. Express your feellings. Talk talk talk. It doesn't work. At best you will get sex a couple of half hearted times out of guilt. You need to spark attraction and overt communication does not do this. Covert communication and direct action works, not talk talk talk talk. Dread might have elements of Beta but whining and crying and emoting about not getting sex is Omega.
[–]F1shtowner 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
I don't think talking to your spouse is necessarily beta. I mean, whining about a lack of sex is. Directly telling your spouse that a marriage without regular sex isn't a marriage you want to be in is just being direct. Making your expectations for a marriage clear is never beta.
I agree with MRP on losing weight, dressing better, having interests and hobbies, etc. as a path to a better sex life. I think actively attempting to dread your spouse will at best have the reaction you describe. You may dread her into fucking you a few times but fear is a notoriously poor long term motivator.
In general I see dread game as pure passive aggression which is deeply beta, even moreso when a bunch of dudes sit around giving each other tips on being passive aggressive.
I can't even imagine going for a drive for a few hours, then coming home and immediately taking a shower to give the impression that I have something on the side, then coming to Reddit to tell other des about it. To me that's not the behavior of a man or an adult of either gender.
[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
It is not fear. Fear is to strong. It is "The Gift of Anxiety" where you put the slightest bit of hesitation in her mind that she may not have you on lockdown. Secondary selection is an enormously strong sexual trigger in the human female so I would not underestimate the power of Dread.
As to the other point, of course it sounds reasonable except do you seriously think these guys have not had the conversation you suggest- over and over again- before they make it to MRP? Having it again is not going to change things. Actions are what changes things, not words.
[–]F1shtowner 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
I appreciate your polite response to my questions, thanks.
I think we agree on some things. If a married guy were having less sex than he wanted, I'd recommend working out, getting fit, dressing better etc. Mostly because people married for a long time tend to take each other for granted and taking care of one's appearance is something he could do to take charge of the situation and may yield results. And I suppose in addition to making oneself more attractive working out also sends the message that you could become more attractive to women outside the marriage, too.
I think you and I agree on the above. The step further where guys are encouraged to flirt with other women, act mysterious to get their wives thinking, etc. is a nonstarter to me. I don't believe that kind of dread works any better than pleading in a marriage, it's weak and it's just not sustainable long term. I got married to feel comfortable with someone not to win a war of attrition.
I don't know that these men had the talk with their wives. I had the "Why don't we have sex more?" talk with my wife for years until I finally had the "A near sexless marriage is not a marriage I want and I'm prepared to leave" talk. That along with the self betterment and spending time with friends / on my own activities actually did work.
Individual results may vary but I see a lot of crumbling marriages in this forum with very few dread success stories. I'm not saying it can't work ever but in the vast majority of cases casting idle threats all the time is far more likely to drive a wife away than to bring her close is my guess.
[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I don't believe that kind of dread works any better than pleading in a marriage
The reports of many men say otherwise.
Somebody should write an entire book on Dread just for the Hell of it.
[–]F1shtowner 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
The reports of many married men suggest other ways to improve a sex life. I feel like half or more of the guys here are divorcing or heading there fast.
I guess if it works for you more power to you.
[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
half or more of the guys here are divorcing or heading there fast.
How do you think we go here in the first place? This debate is appropriate for Purple Pill Debate, not MRP and not even AskMRP. The debate about female nature is settled on this forum.
other ways
Yah, talktalktalktalktalk emote, express, and whine. We got it. Now take it to PPD. I'm done.
[–]F1shtowner1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Obviously you didn't get it if you think I'm telling you to emote and whine. I appreciate the conversation anyway.
[–]angels_fan 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Lol I was just going to post, "I believe bpp already has written one" and then I saw...
[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't believe that kind of dread works any better than pleading in a marriage, it's weak and it's just not sustainable long term.
Basic human psychology.
People get complacent and lazy.
People place higher value on things other people as well.
Assuming you agree with both of the prior statements, how do you combat both of those in a marriage?
Also - I'm pretty sure you misunderstand dread.
idle threats all the time is far more likely to drive a wife away than to bring her close is my guess.
Wouldn't it be awesome if women thought like men?
I'm actually trying to figure out if I want to engage you or not. It depends mostly on how open minded you're interested in being. It's akin to asking - how do you increase employee engagement? Carrot v. stick.
[–]angels_fan 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link
Read my response below.
You should already have your day so filled with shit to do making yourself awesome that leaving is just continuing on with your day, not making something up on the spot to scurry and go do.
[–]F1shtowner 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link
If leaving was just continuing with your day it wouldn't be discussed as a dread strategy. In fact it wouldn't be discussed at all because who comes online to be like "My wife didn't want to fuck so I took a drive to Barnes & Noble instead."
[–]angels_fan 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
It depends on what level of dread you're at.
If you are in dread levels 1-6, then sure it is. You are moving forward with your awesome life and she isn't. Your smv is rising. That alone instills dread.
If you are in 6+, then part of your planned day should be "go to the bar and have a couple of beers" or whatever active dread activity You have planned. You can then opt to not go to the bar if she has sex with you. Otherwise, it's, "ok cool. Well, I was going to meet some friends at the bar tonight. I'll see you later."
The point is, you should already have something else planned to do before you even initiate sex. When you get turned down and sit there trying to think of something to do, it comes off as butt hurt instead of dread.
[–]F1shtowner 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
If you're making backup plans before attempting to initiate sex it actually IS butthurt, regardless of how it comes across.
[–]angels_fan 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
That's my whole point. It ISN'T a backup plan. It's just part of your regularly scheduled day. Not sure where you're getting that I said you should plan something 5 minutes before you schedule sex?
As a high value man, you are sacrificing your valuable time and granting your SO an opportunity to spend time with you. Of course, she has to give her value, which is sex in exchange for your value, which is time and affection.
[–]F1shtowner 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The advice that I am seeing on MRP is if your wife doesn't fuck you, leave the house specifcally to give the impression that you could be fucking around. Sometimes this advice comes with bonus tips like taking a shower right after you come in.
You can't be leaving because you have better things to do if you're also leaving to dread your wife.
I like to think my wife and I both like sex, time and effective so we're not exchanging one for the other.
[–]pikadildo 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
What do you do after a sexual rejection?
[–]F1shtowner 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
I don't know: I don't get rejected anymore.
[–]pikadildo 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Why is that?
[–]F1shtowner 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Just lucky I guess.
[–]pikadildo 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link
You want me to break down how your guilded DB post is the MRP process (minus the fact that you've neglected working on your fear of rejection and seem to still think sex is a reward for good behavior)? How it's fundamentally built on dread? What exactly do you think you did differently?
Luck has little to do with it.
Being direct / honest is not dread. Working out to better yourself so that you're more attractive to your spouse isn't dread.
Deliberately going out of your way to give your wife the impression you may be fucking around is dread. That's my entire point.
[–]pikadildo1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Dread is nothing more than appealing to her fear of abandonment directly or indirectly.
"Don't expect me to be around if fucking is off the table" is dread.
I think you did a commendable job actually and you should post your story here for others.
I guess what I take issue with is the passive aggression. I've seen guys here say they will take a shower right after coming in, stay overnight at a B&B, flirt with other women in don't of their wife etc. I don't believe in those tactics, to me that crosses a line.
Long story short on my DB problem, I:
1) dropped a ton of weight and got into the best shape of my life. 2) unambiguously told my wife that our frequency was insufficient and I did not want to be in the relationship anymore if we didn't fix it together. 3) made a note when we did have sex for about 6 months before this talk so there was no exaggerating, deflecting or gas lighting going on. 4) asked her what I could do to make it better and immediately put a few things into play that I hadn't before.
I also stopped asking, b1tching, sulking etc.
Some of these things are MRP advice some aren't.
Killing passive aggression is handled extensively in No More Mr. Nice Guy and When I Say No, I Feel Guilty (assertive communication skills manual) on the MRP prerequisites list. And it feeds into the ownership and stoicism mentalities (focus on things you can change and change them, don't waste time on things out of your control).
From what I can tell these are fundamental differences between the MRP and TRP sidebars. Passive aggression is not acceptable on MRP and will be torn to shreds.
Not sure about TRP proper but judging by the comments of driveby TRP ECs and their worship of eternal anger, it must be dandy over there.
[–]LewisCross 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
No. Don't do that.
A woman masturbating in front of a man says "I am sexually available and sexually turned on".
A man masturbating in front of a woman says "I'm doing this only because I can't get a woman to do it for me".
A woman masturbating is sexy. A man masturbating is desperate.
[–]ParadoxThatDrivesUs3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
She's denying you sex because she's not attracted to you. I'm having trouble seeing how your solution would help the situation.
[–]Mecha753 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Seems pretty beta to wank it in front of her because she denied you sex. Or to do it in such a way that you ensure she knows. Now to answer your other question, i cant get up and leave after a refusal. I would do that during my dead bedroom era all the time. So doing that is a no go for me. Instead, i have to say "okay, thats fine" and roll over and go to sleep. Then the next day i spend more time doing whatever i want outside the house. Going to the gym again afterwork, hitting up barnes and noble for another book or series to read, etc. still, the general premise is to remove yourself from her presence is the point. My wife gets it quickly. I rarely go past two nights.
[–]ParadoxThatDrivesUs1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
To all the lurkers thinking that this doesn't work for them, you have to make yourself awesome enough for her to care if you withdraw.
[–]screechhaterRed Beret1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
OP. This.
Priming your pump in front of her is not attractive.
Remember. Be attractive
[–]Stoptalkingplease64-1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Makes sense. The "reinforce good behavior, punish bad behavior (by removing attention)" strategy. Thanks for sharing man.
[–]RuleZeroDADRed Beret1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
In the appropriate words of u/whinemoreplease:
You do you.
[–]angels_fan 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You misspelled, "faggot pussy".
[–]RuleZeroDADRed Beret1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The universally accepted meaning is "go fuck yourself, retard."
There was a time, not long ago, where a guy would DEER for 20 paragraphs and "You do you" would shut that shit down.
The Mods and EC's are too kind now. Especially in AskMRP.
[–]ArchwingerRed Beret1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
In the wild, Gronk the big strong manly man took all the women. Bob the whiny loser man jerked off in the bushes. When your wife knows you're jerking it, her subconscious flags you as Bob the loser.
The next time you try to escalate, she's not going think "Oh noes! He doesn't need me! He'll just masturbate! I'd better fuck him!"
She's going to sneer at you with disdain and tell you to go touch yourself, loser.
[–]stonepimpletilists 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Why? without knowing what purpose you are doing, and how you can tell if it's working, I'm going with /u/RuleZeroDAD on this one.
Bonus points if you understand what he said.
[–]FireTempered 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is a joke, right?
If not a joke. If you're not retarded. You're probably a 12 year old exhibitionist. Wrong sub.
You kind of have it wrong.
You don't go "find" something to do. You should already have so much shit on your plate that you are actively putting some of that off to spend time with her.
"I have to do a, b, c, d and e today. I guess I could not do b and go fuck my wife and give her some attention. Oh, she's not dtf. Well, looks like b is back on. See ya."
When she says no, fuck it. Back to your regularly scheduled busy day.
[–]The_LitzRed Beret0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It is passive aggressive. And passive aggressive belongs in the bluepill toolbox.
really? Because they are shitting all over it.
Maybe they won't, when they realize we almost unanimously hate it, then, maybe they'll love it
[–]InChargeManRed Beret0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is what she sees
[–]JDRoedellRed Beret0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
One time after she gave me a hard no, she said something to the effect of, "can't you just take care of yourself sometimes?" I said, "ha, sorry babe, I didn't get married so I could jerk off." This was early in my RP awakening and I think I also vomited something like, "maybe you can start looking for a husband who feels like being committed to you," And I left. The last comment was weak and butt hurt but you get my point.
Absolutely do not fucking do this. Do i occasionally jerk off in longer sex droughts, yes. I NEVER let her know this. EVER.
[–]stonepimpletilists 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I have a post in the kiddie about that line.
Basically, yes you can. Then go run some game. She thinks you'll go hide in the corner and stop bothering her with your libido, so own it.
There's always another warm hole, and the next one costs less
[–]JDRoedellRed Beret-1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It costs less as long as you don't put a ring on it.
[–]imnotyourbrahbro1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I have done this twice. The first time, she said WTF, then hemmed and hawed, tossed and turned, and then eventually replaced my hand with hers and was OK finish. Second time she said WTF, walked out and slept in other room. Next day, said it was weird and didn't know what to do. If you are going to do it, own it. Looking back, would not recommend.
[–]Triadis3 -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The whole reason you leave is to instill some dread.
Maybe you're going to the gym, but maybe you're going out to get some strange.
The problem with her rejecting you in the first place means that she has you on lockdown in her mind. To her, your only source for sex is her, so she can deny you whenever.
Don't go beat it in a corner. This demonstrates to her that she truly does "have you by the balls". Disappear. You have better things to to than furiously masturbating. (You'd better.)( Actually it sounds like you have some reading to do. )
[–]innominating-1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
There was some discussion about this when I first started about 1.5 years ago. I recall the sentiment being that it is fine, not necessarily Alpha or Beta.
I have never tried it. I have had a lot of success leaving the house and coming back two hours later and immediately taking a shower.
[–]VengefullyY0urs-1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think even leaving when you are denied sex can take some time to be effective. If she is no attracted to you or you have a history of dead bedroom style "talks" she could just take you leaving as more butt hurt behavior - even when you are going to the gym or whatever. You were comfortable with her in you bed, and she gave a hard no and now you are reacting. Mix that will a whiny non-attractive history and it does not help.
Even this part takes working up to. Honestly, even saying nothing takes working up to.
[–]Soberskipper-1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That would be a win win for her...especially if she doesn't find you attractive
[–]TotesMessenger-1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:
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Fuck it. They do this to every thread, in this case, whatever cunty bullshit they are spouting probably has merit
[–]SampsonBrass -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You have many problems. Your dick is the least of them I'm certain.
[–]RedPillRisingFromAsh -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think monkeys do that in the zoo right?
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