Q4 Red and Blue pillers: How many people on either side do you think actually want to learn, grow, understand, etc., and how many just want their side to 'win'? And how many just want to feel good about feeling they're right, even at the expense of their side?

tickledpic · 2018-07-23T15:37:27+00:00

I don't consider blues the "enemy" and I actually rarely ever even debate blues because it usually just comes down to a difference in values. And even though I can understand and make sense of their decisions, they will never convince me of anything because we simply disagree at some fundamental point, and I'll likely never convince them of anything either for the same reason.

Generally I debate amongst reds because at least we are starting from some common ground knowledge and likely have similar values. Debating from that point on help clarify terms and ideas and solidify ideas. A blue will never convince me that AWALT isn't a thing, but arguing with a red over which traits are a part of AWALT is a learning experience.

UsedAlgae · 2018-07-23T16:22:16+00:00

In the sense of "why are you here", I think attraction, gender, and dating culture are interesting topics to discuss. I'm going to shoot myself in the foot by saying this in front of people who are so staunchly anti-feminist, but it's not always completely politically correct, so there's not a lot of purely "blue" spaces to discuss it. I do think that the "blue" side gets a good amount right, obviously. I wish there was more space for nuanced discussion with people who have at least a bit of common ground (purples, you guys are in demand as conversation partners!), instead of the "so I think women are people who are sometimes even nice" "no, they're all hypergamous whores, you are an indoctrinated feminist".

I think the really hardcore redpill guys and I are just never going to see each other's side. Although sometimes it's interesting reading the posts from people who are able to actually write intelligently and consistently about their ideology, even if I completely disagree.

I did get a really nice PM from someone who said basically "hey I'm a lurker, and even if that guy you were talking to wasn't receptive, I thought your posts were nice and made me think!", though, so maybe there is some value in yelling at each other in public anyways.

concacanca · 2018-07-23T16:07:33+00:00

I'm fairly open that I found this sub after looking for something that helped interpret my lived experience.

I don't care who is absolutely right per se. I do care what is right from my own point of view. I've come to understand some things (largely from the reds tbh) that have helped improve my relationship and come to see the limits of those things through some of the discourse here.

When it comes to discussion here, sometimes ill try and argue an view I don't hold to see if it makes sense to me in the face of opposition.

I think most people are just here for a mud slinging smugfest tbh though.

Gravel_Roads · 2018-07-23T16:25:31+00:00

I don’t do sides, everyone sounds crazy to me. I just don’t see any benefit to living in a vacuum; it’s impossible anyway. Inevitably you end up disagreeing on something the majority is saying and causing a new demographic of people with anyone else that disagrees the same way.

I come here for the intersectionality.

I just stay for the dumpster fire hysteria that is the Sexually Repressed Man.

Electra_Cute · 2018-07-23T15:49:52+00:00

I think most of them are fine and just want to discuss/debate with people. It seems like there is some radical users here who like to preach their hobby-horse messages over and over again or have a masturbation session over what some “feminist” wrote on a news web site or twitter, but those people are in the minority. It is just going to appear that there is a lot more of them because of how loud and frequently they post.

Pope_Lucious · 2018-07-23T16:35:57+00:00

I’m not particularly interested in Blue’s motivations or feelings. I’m interested in their arguments, which I believe are wrong.

No one cares about “everyone being happy”.

Not even you.

captnjack2222 · 2018-07-23T16:31:00+00:00

I don't really give a shit what blue pillers have to say. I do generally want to hear what purple pill, red pill have to say when they differ from my opinion especially red pill or purple pill women. I think most people with that flair want some understanding debate, not just prove a point.

Redpill sidebar is a great foundation to start forming your beliefs on how to be your own man, but the actual debate always ends up being who has the worst horror story about women. None of my experiences are that bad so I want to base my feelings on women and relationships on what I've actually experienced.

Plus purple pill women have made some valid points on things, even molded my viewpoint, and given me a perspective that I wouldn't have gotten otherwise. It's hard to have these debates with women in person because you risk your reputation by even mentioning them in the first place. Blue pill carol tells you what she "thinks" women want even though she's rude to men, a bitch to her husband, or 35 and still single. Average IQ Stacy doesn't know what the fuck she wants and she sure as hell can't explain it.

GayLubeOil · 2018-07-23T15:53:29+00:00

If as a Red Piller you want to learn grow and from the other side you should read Marx, Hegel and some postmodernists like Derida.

There's absolutely nothing to learn from an SJW feminist or a beta Cuck because their philosophical position is nothing more than a psychological type. They're high agreeableness conformists who repeat whatever the dominant cultural narrative is.

MisterJose · 2018-07-23T15:46:34+00:00

I didn't start the war, but I play to win

It goes without saying that if you do not view them as enemies, then coming to connection and understanding is desirable.

One of the parts of growing up is recognizing there's a lot of people you won't be able to have connection and understanding with. This kumbaya crap is usually preached by losers getting taken for everything they have

Quadtastrophe · 2018-07-23T16:12:46+00:00

Red Pillers aren't my enemy your ideology is. It's no different than the fight against religion. Rationality backed by proof won't win everyone but every year new adults enter the world who can be taught to fight it too. We're slowly gaining the numbers. Some day we'll be the social majority, we've already got a hand and foot solidly in that door. Ideology isn't about enemies and strategy it's about education and propaganda. You are thinking bullets and battlefields but that doesn't apply to a purely informational war.

wekacuck · 2018-07-23T18:05:41+00:00

How many people on either side do you think actually want to learn, grow, understand, etc.,

NoneALT.

and how many just want their side to 'win'?

AllALT.

And how many just want to feel good about feeling they're right, even at the expense of their side?

AllALT.

The Red Pill is extremely sclerotic in their understanding of relevant science with dogmatic reliance on older questionable theories. Most seem to have replaced belief in God's commandments with some sort of cherry-picked bullshit shellacked with a veneer of sciencism. This in particular is why the red pill analogy is a crock of shit. They don't actually care about truth. Nor do they understand why soft-sciences are considered soft and that they're building an empire on quicksand.

The Red Pill is just an alternate Blue Pill.

daveofmars · 2018-07-24T00:56:12+00:00

I don't think that the liberal/left/progressive/BP side is interested in empathizing with an enemy because their whole social hierarchy is based off being more virtuous than everyone else and rejecting those who aren't. The irony is that the desire to be more tolerant and inclusive has made people massively more intolerant than the bigots they purportedly hate. They feel like they're doing good but that feeling of goodness is their one and only goal and, in the face of reality, feelings are a fickle thing.

TRP just wants to fuck more, so it's not exactly comparable. While we do have our own problems, we don't get caught up in virtue signaling or social justice spirals. Our goals are much more personal and thus they're more achievable.

MisterJose · 2018-07-23T15:31:22+00:00

The only side I’m on is my side. Team 321pk. I try to win, avoid own goals, and do as little harm to others as possible. I’m not laboring under any just world fantasy. Everybody has to look out for themselves.

How many actually care about seeing everyone happy?

Nobody cares about that. The scope is too immense and ppl act in their own self interest. As far as Reddit goes, that’s just an entertaining time waster. I mean, nothing’s getting “solved.” It’s just who can be the cleverest or the wittiest or the most amusing. Not the most helpful or productive.

oftheinfinite · 2018-07-23T16:16:22+00:00

Blue/purple pillers don't want to have an honest discussions, especially about biological differences such as in male-female brains (intelligence and brain structure) and overall output to society/culture and civilization and whether women are actually equal to men and whether they deserve to treated "equally" and not have all those mainstream beliefs promulgated and disseminated throughout society as if women are on men's level in terms of necessity/importance, and so on. They do not want to have an honest talk about gynocentrism, however it is defined, and how women are treated very well in comparison to men. They don't want to talk about how women automatically get respected by virtue of owning a vagina, given the benefit of the doubt and how men are always automatically disrespected and seen as jokes; how men are easily condemned while women are rarely ever criticized to such a degree that women feel shame (which makes me question if women as a collective can feel at shame at all). What I get from reading relevant threads is that women are just as smart and as capable if not smarter or more capable than men, do not get treated better (some arguing women have it worse ), and are actually still in need of social justice because men are making it hard for them to be equals and what not. Purple pillers are not much different than blue pillers and I actually think they are more blue than red. As a result, this subreddit is actually heavily blue pilled and that makes me very tired of arguing.

petrichordium · 2018-07-23T15:57:00+00:00

I could care less what most hardened reds think, and honestly past a certain point I’m happy to let them remove themselves from my little corner of the sexual and romantic economy with their opinions, which are way more fatal to their happiness than they realize.

I care solely about converting some people in the wavering middle who DO recognize certain hypocrisies in mainstream depictions of our sex drives. Again, even that isn’t purely altruistic, because the fewer men making bad short term decisions that poison the sexual well we all draw from, the better.

I care solely about engaging with minds i respect, that’s it. And i can happily engage with open and creative red minds i have many disagreements with. But again, if you respect someone it’s possible to have a conversation. Anyone else is just a fun target to fuck with.

wtknight · 2018-07-23T17:36:44+00:00

I usually feel sorry for both manosphere men and angry feminists more than anything. I'd like it if everyone could eventually find someone to trust and to form a loving, emotional bond with. I don't think this should be some kind of contest with winners or losers at all.

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RedPill-BlackLotus · 2018-07-23T16:29:31+00:00

Any man who wants the red pill side to win is still plugged into the matrix.

Red pill is amoral and doesn't give a fuck. It's about sexual strategy, that's all.

The only people that care are bluepillers and I suspect they are virtue signaling.

Red pill is just accepting observable reality.

The reality is most of us (men) are pussy faggots and we did it to ourselves. That's a reality that's tough to swallow, and if you can choak it down,the red pill slides down real nice.

[deleted] · 2018-07-23T17:12:32+00:00

I don't consider people who disagree with me here my "enemy". Their opinions, beliefs and behaviors don't effect me in any way . I'm just here to learn and to offer my own perspective.

toronto87 · 2018-07-23T20:47:15+00:00

I think we're probably evolved to have an 'us' and 'them' view point. The 'us' is whoever is in your tribe (blue pill, red pill, feminism, Americans, etc.), and the 'them' is everyone else. We're pre-disposed from an evolutionary perspective to de-humanize/attack the 'them'.

gankylosaurus · 2018-07-23T21:10:03+00:00

The best antagonist believes that they are fighting for what is right. It's why Killmonger was praised as the villain of Black Panther. It's why there have been discussions over whether Thanos was the protagonist of Infinity War.

I don't think of Red Pill as my enemy. In fact, I think they actually do a very good thing for young men in building confidence. I, too, once tried pick-up artistry for a time (and failed miserably) but the experience left me stronger. I knew more about people, just by forcing myself to interact with more people (of all genders) and I was more willing to put myself out there and stop blaming others for my failures.

Whether or not TRP's views on women are backwards is something that history will be able to reflect on. For now, TBP is more of a parody, a place to call out the more ridiculous claims on TRP and to have a little fun with them. We aren't actually fighting back.

PPD is the place where we cross paths the most, and I feel it's only for the thicker-skinned redditors. But I think it's all just about debate, and that most people aren't going to change their minds about the path they've chosen. We may gain different perspectives over time, but no one on either side is suddenly going to switch because someone made just the best fucking point ever.

Eartherry · 2018-07-24T05:05:06+00:00

In the struggle between men and women there's no middle ground. We're directly opposed. We can understand one another but we do need the other side to lose.

I'm a woman, my actions don't bring down my side. Maybe a few decades ago when not having a husband had economic consequences, but not now. If there is any consequence for my side that's worse than what would have to be given up I haven't thought of it.

shoup88 · 2018-07-24T05:31:06+00:00

I think there's probably like 7 people max who are actually interested in growing and learning new things. These 7 people cycle in and out all the time because anyone interested in learning new things will tap out when they realize we just debate the same topics over and over.

I think most people, myself included, just like arguing. The longtime users, with pretty obvious exceptions, are not emotionally invested. Those who really care about it burn out. The longer you're here, the more you realize just how little anyone's positions will move. We're pretty much set.

Also we all really love talking about our celebrity crushes. Those topics are when ppd is at it's most pure and honest.

[deleted] · 2018-07-24T12:02:46+00:00

Most people are like this. It’s an ego thing. This applies to both sides. You should debate to persuade and understand, not to win.

cxj · 2018-07-25T06:52:39+00:00

I’m honestly mostly here for friends, I wish I could hang out with y’all irl !!!

[deleted] · 2018-07-25T07:28:17+00:00

Oh I'm just here for two things: 1: I find the psychology behind it interesting and like to learn more theories. 2: to vent my frustrations and make sense of them. Even when I disagree, it often helps me form my own conclusions. I'm not really here for empathy, but a well written welcoming post may make empathize anyways.

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