Women: do you genuinely find men who are unmasculine and show signs of weakness unattractive?

Aufbruch · 2018-06-07T10:52:43+00:00

I will never understand why people here always conflate "shows emotion" or "is vulnerable" with "is depressed." Really. Is it hard to understand why a depressed person is not always a good partner choice?

I have a friend who recently broke it off with his girlfriend, whom he was very infatuated with for months, when her depression became worse. He got a wandering eye, started feeling unhappy, and ended things. Guess he's AWALT.

Yes, I would find severe depression -- untreated or not responding to treatment -- to be a red flag when entering a relationship. Yes, very low self-esteem sounds outright unattractive. Not really familiar with anxious types so can't say for those.

That said, I've been attracted to two people with some sort of depression and one with bipolar disorder. One has treatment and is older and seems capable of handling it; another is still lost, suffers immensely, gets attached very quickly to girls who are no good for him, has self-destructive tendencies, and years ago threatened to kill himself when I turned him down. I have no doubt he is going through a lot of pain but being his friend already exposes me to possible pain; I wouldn't date him how he is now because what if he kills himself? What if we're incompatible and we break up and he gets worse because of it? It's not "Oh he has feelings how unattractive," it's downright terrifying because I've visited him in hospital after a suicide attempt.

My boyfriend tells me every day these days that he sucks because he failed at X task or Y thing he did didn't turn out how he wanted. He tells me he's currently unhappy and while I'm not very useful all I do is tell him, every time, that no he doesn't suck and that things will be looking up soon because Z. But that's not full blown depression or anxiety and I wouldn't be well-equipped to deal with those. As a friend, I try, and those things can be draining. They can take a lot of energy and I very much doubt I could maintain a romantic relationship like that if I was their main source of support and they depended on me.

Someone who was actually getting better? Or who was at a point where they could function? Yeah, okay.

Would you find him less attractive if you ever saw him cry?

Ever? That's different from actually having depression. I've seen my SO cry -- once. And over me no less. It ripped at my heart but no loss of attraction.

But yes if he cried every other day over inconsequential things I would find it annoying and unattractive. I would find it annoying in a friend, but it's also unattractive.

Or looked upon you as someone to lean on when it gets tough for him?

I hope he looks at me like that, but maybe we mean different things by this. If he leans on me every day and I can never lean on him, no thanks.

If a man is not your rock, if he is not stoic and he shows weakness and vulnerability, if he is anything less than conventionally masculine, do you find him less attractive?

Stoic has always sounded meh to me, but you may find Atlas' macho tokens enlightening.

lefactorybebe · 2018-06-07T12:37:38+00:00

I think I find a man with anxiety/depression neutral. While it's not attractive, it's not unattractive either. My ex had an anxiety disorder, depression, bipolar, alcoholism, and god knows what else. I knew about the depression and anxiety when I started dating him, and it didn't make me think he was unattractive. But of course this is variable. If a man is crying because somebody doesn't like his shoes, that's unattractive.

As for low self esteem, that's variable as well. I really value humility and hate cockiness/arrogance. A few self deprecating jokes here and there are fine. Constantly wallowing in self pity, using every excuse to bring up how ugly they are, on the other hand, is unattractive.

I would absolutely not lose attraction if a man cried. Crying is normal and everyone does it. I EXPECT to be leaned on when my boyfriend is going through a rough time, that's a HUGE aspect of relationships, to have someone to support you when times are tough.

I do not find someone unattractive if they are not always a stoic rock. I would honestly prefer that they are NOT a stoic rock, I don't like that personality. They shouldn't be sobbing all the time, but I don't like this huge emphasis on stoicism, I think it's unnatural and unattractive. Most people have emotions, and these emotions need to be let out sometimes. Keeping them in,or white knuckling through them by yourself is unhealthy and unattractive. It almost comes off as insecure, to me. A man who is secure in himself is able to find support when he needs it, to go to others for help.

Equalina · 2018-06-07T10:07:05+00:00

For me personally, because I’ve struggled with mental health issues such as anxiety, depression and ADHD I empathize with others who have and would never dismiss them outright. As long as someone is trying to get better and not just wallowing in self pity and bitterness, it’s not a deal breaker for me.

That being said, it can be shocking when men cry. I think this is because we’re so unused to overt displays of depression or sadness from men and more accustomed to them showing emotions such as anger and bitterness. It’s like when a man cries it must be really serious because you think he won’t cry unless he can’t hold it in at all. That seems scary because you know the situation is really bad. Women tend to be accepted if they cry over ‘small’ things and sometimes men even like it, ime, when women get tearful easily as it’s seen as very feminine.

So, if a guy cries really easily then it can seem feminine and is therefore off putting to most women. It’s also not such a typical sign of male depression - so, again, it seems a bit feminine when a man cries easily. But, I think it’s very sweet and quite appealing when men get a little bleary-eyed over a sad scene in a movie or a sad story on the news. There’s nothing un-manly about having compassion and expressing that. If he starts blubbing, it’s not attractive. Misty eyes? Nothing wrong with that.

Just because someone has struggles with depression, etc, doesn’t mean they are weak and ineffectual. It often shows a lot of strength to me if they are fighting it - you need a lot of fortitude to continue with life when your brain is beating you down. It’s ‘unmanly’ to pretend it isn’t happening and stick your head in the ground - as long as he’s confronting it, it’s not a weakness in my book.

2018-06-07T13:48:29+00:00

I've been with my husband since we were 15 & 18 (now 34&37). He was diagnosed with depression a chronic anxiety before we met due to childhood abuse. I've seen him at his lowest points of self-harm, low self esteem, crying uncontrollably. It has never occurred to me not to stick with him. He is a rock for me when I'm struggling, I am a rock for him. We're a team. I don't believe make emotions are wrong and shameful at all. He is physically masculine (tall, broad shoulders, beard)

Five_Decades · 2018-06-07T11:37:19+00:00

No Depression is not an attractive trait.

No Anxiety is not an attractive trait.

No low self-esteem is not an attractive trait.

No Crying does not mean he is less attractive. But it is obviously situational, you cry because your dog died, or anything that a normal person would basically think "thats heavy" then NO, if its that he cries up at a sad film even then NO. If its because his shoes are dirty or some trivial stuff then YES (though worth looking what underlying issue is)

The less masculine = the less attractive. But, its a scale not a binary. And, emotions are not a problem, but their overall personality and game is obviously of fundamental importance.

I find that behavior supersedes interests. In fact what does his interests have anything to do with me? If he is interested in them... go do them.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2018-06-07T13:34:53+00:00

Yes, I genuinely find unmasculine men unattractive

2018-06-07T10:21:17+00:00

I would only consider dating somebody with depression or anxiety issues if they were actively doing something to manage their illness even then they would have to have some amazing qualities. I grew up dealing with family members who did not it was chaotic and they were unreliable and kind of self absorped. It was draining to have parent adults and deal with the consequences of poor decision making related to that. I do not really want female friends who have unmanaged mental illness either they waste your time and tend to be so into themselves they have nothing left for anybody else. I am not a free therapist.

Not conventionally attractive is less of a deal as long as they are in decent shape and like being active and are not into couch surfing.

Nevidimka- · 2018-06-07T14:40:38+00:00

I don't like to be around super negative people in general.

But seeing someone cry every once in a while or want to lean on me when he's dealing with something, no, that does not make him unattractive.

Raiil · 2018-06-07T17:54:03+00:00

Shows of emotion are fine, normal, and I wouldn't want to date a dude who couldn't, or wouldn't, be vulnerable around me. I have dysmythia myself and I know the struggle.

Being unable to reasonably control emotion is a massive turnoff. It doesn't have to be sadness. Sloppy, drop of a hat rage isn't a good look. I feel that while there is no shame for having an issue, one should try to be proactive. I've supported people through depressive episodes, no sweat there, but if you're actively refusing to find a way to get better, there's nothing I can do.

Therapy is good, medication is good- as long as you can find a healthy way to manage I'm down.

ImJuliusPepperwood · 2018-06-07T09:47:38+00:00

[permanently deleted]

SkookumTree · 2018-06-07T10:13:34+00:00

This is, as far as I know, the fourth post you have made in past 9 hours. However since we've had to remove those threads, and this one is, so far, okay, we will leave it up. But please do not post again for 12 hours. Thank you.

Willow-girl · 2018-06-07T11:30:37+00:00

I am a tough woman and I need a tough man by my side because we are going to be doing tough things. I've tried to make it work with wimpy men but, well ... it didn't.

philomexa · 2018-06-07T15:02:59+00:00

Because I've found the idea that women dislike men who are like this to be pretty sad.

Why is it such a fucking crime that ~~women~~people want mentally healthy, resilient partners?

Of course someone with anxiety, depression, low self esteem and no confidence is unattractive, these are unattractive traits. They don't signal any sort of genetic fitness, but they do signal a whole lot of maladaptive shit that I don't want to fuck with or pass on to another generation.

I don't need a rock, I need a man with mental fortitude and strength to deal with the litany of bullshit life doles out.

Crying cause a family member died? understandable and neutral to attraction. Crying because everything is so hard is fucking repulsive, get your shit together.

Nobody wants a depressive sad sop in their lives. Nobody wants an anxious, low self esteem basket case as a partner.Male or female, IT👏IS👏NOT👏ATTRACTIVE👏

carefreevermillion · 2018-06-07T11:57:38+00:00

Like do you find the idea of a man with depression or anxiety issues unattractive? How about one with low self esteem and not much confidence?

I don't mind depression or anxiety issues, but the men I've dated at least have a confident front.

Would you find him less attractive if you ever saw him cry? Or looked upon you as someone to lean on when it gets tough for him?

No, that's what I'm there for. I'm his confidante and partner in crime, I have to know his weaknesses and be able to shoulder his emotions (as he does for me) if I'm going to do my job right.

If a man is not your rock, if he is not stoic and he shows weakness and vulnerability, if he is anything less than conventionally masculine, do you find him less attractive?

I don't mind the occasional emotional outburst, but constant breakdowns and dramatic fights indicate immaturity. I wouldn't expect a partner to put up with that if I behaved in a similar way.

RockinSocksII · 2018-06-07T13:00:33+00:00

No, my boyfriend is unmasculine.

Former-Incel-User · 2018-06-07T10:21:18+00:00

Like do you find the idea of a man with depression or anxiety issues unattractive?

Yes, very. I don't like dealing with other people's emotions.

How about one with low self esteem and not much confidence?

Yes, of course. Who would be attracted to someone with low self-esteem and no confidence?

Would you find him less attractive if you ever saw him cry?

If he was a normal guy, who cried because his dog died or something, it wouldn't bother me. If I had to constantly walk on eggshells because I was too afraid he'd get weepy at the drop of a hat, I'd leave him.

Or looked upon you as someone to lean on when it gets tough for him?

This I also wouldn't mind, as long as it was reserved for times that were actually tough for him and not just run of the mill "oh no someone looked at me mean!" bullshit.

If a man is not your rock, if he is not stoic and he shows weakness and vulnerability, if he is anything less than conventionally masculine, do you find him less attractive?

No, I need a good level of stocism because I can't deal with other people's feelings, as I've already said. He doesn't need to be conventionally masculine, but he can't be a constant sad lump either. And I guess it depends on what you mean by "weakness and vulnerability"?

Because I've found the idea that women dislike men who are like this to be pretty sad.

Why? Would you enjoy spending time around someone who constantly only talked about themselves and their problems and never lifted a finger to change?

That women dislike men who show emotions that aren't rock solid confidence sometimes bordering on arrogance.

You mean people who are normal?

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DXBrigade · 2018-06-07T18:03:39+00:00

I am not attracted to men who are effeminate or crybabies. There is nothing wrong with a man crying once in awhile though.

Former-Incel-User · 2018-06-07T19:05:33+00:00

Showing emotions? No. For me that's usually not a sign of weakness. Weak and unmasculine as in the guy's physicality like someone with a weak, pointy narrow jaw things like that; sure.

Title	Women: do you genuinely find men who are unmasculine and show signs of weakness unattractive?
Author	Former-Incel-User
Upvotes	5
Comments	122
Date	June 7, 2018 9:04 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/8p8t6c/women_do_you_genuinely_find_men_who_are/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/women-do-you-genuinely-find-men-who-are.262039 https://theredarchive.com/post/262039

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