So you're not interested in women and only want to "self-improve"? Great, but TRP is and always will be about effective sexual strategies ["Do it for yourself, the pervasive hamster" by /u/redpillschool]

SherlockHolmes- · 2014-12-30T11:56:51+00:00

What is TRP?

First, we do not all share the same interpretations of RP theory, nor do we all direct RP theory toward the same ends. For example, for me RP theory is unique in its (male-dominated and often rational) conceptualization of heterosexual relationships. Some of the theories, field reports, and discussions I peruse here help me make sense of society, particularly females within it. The pursuit or goal is naturally happiness, which is easier achieved by not being crushed by propagated illusions regarding gender relations (the earlier the pill is swallowed and digested, the more likely happiness will be obtained; I would rather face the hard truth in my 20s than in my 30s, after years of a draining and doomed marriage).

Remaining skeptical and critically evaluating TRP content irrespective of its source

The problem I am seeing, however, is a blind acceptance of sidebar material and endorsed posters’ content (many of whom attempt to profit—and I use that term loosely—from their popularity here by directing readers to their website and materials). I am an inherently skeptical person; I wouldn’t be surprised (nor would I be outraged) if a lot of the endorsed posters work together to profit from TRP’s now-vast readership by piggybacking each other in an attempt to direct readers to their websites and other materials. Nor would I be surprised or outraged if certain endorsed posters with external websites or materials created additional accounts to upvote and agree with their content. Remain skeptical of women--yes--but also of everyone and everything. Always use your critical thinking skills, gentlemen.

Getting laid is not on its face RP; it’s more complicated than that

This is my most important point. If you consider it carefully, you'll understand why many are disagreeing.

Getting laid on a regular basis is not prima facie RP; how one gets laid often and their reason for having sex often is what makes one RP. It's a clear distinction for those more thoughtful thinkers out there. But let me put it into basic terms so everyone can understand: If I had sex every day with hot women, but such sex was attained predominantly via roofies (i.e., I was raping the women)--this is the "how"--and I was only engaging in such sex because I was seeking validation from or through women and because I was lonely and torn up about a past relationship--this is the "reason for"--then I am not necessarily closer to being RP than someone not having as much sex. RP-worthy studs have sex often because they have high SMV from working on themselves (how) and attain sex simply because it gives them pleasure, not for some convoluted Freudian issue they can't comprehend (reason for).

Appealing to morality is absurd; however, consider the consequences of your actions

Lately there’s been a lot of “RP is amoral; therefore, make it your mission to fuck married bitches”-type posts. If that’s your fetish, all the power to you. Do I need to fuck married women to feel empowered and better about myself? No, I do not need to resort to low-value married women or low-value women in relationships because there are enough single women out there who crave my cock and can satiate me. One might counter, “Why not fuck married women if the opportunity presents itself?” Yes, sex is great and I’ve discovered numerous times after the fact that I fucked a taken chick (hearing in between sessions that “your cock is bigger” than her boyfriend’s and that “he’s never this aggressive” feels fucking amazing—believe me, I know). But Jesus Christ, why would you actively pursue a married woman? And how deprived are you that you feel the need to brag about it repetitively for, like, ten illiterate paragraphs? Is it because you have a shitty job? Do you work as a fucking manager at Wal-Mart? Because I can tell you that in my line of work (think conservative, $$$, suit mandatory), if it was revealed that I was sleeping with other men’s wives, I would not be making partner any time soon. You’d be shut the fuck out, ostracised by men and women alike. For those business owners out there: Are your clients going to want to do business with someone who fucks other men's wives? Like…how short-sighted and naive does one have to be to not comprehend the negative consequences of fucking the wives of married men? Morality may not drive your decisions; however, your perceived lack of morality will drive others’ decisions, which will in turn negatively affect your shit. Get smart, maybe read some Machiavelli. Do you think the women you're fucking are smart enough to conceal such information? Who’s putting pussy on a pedestal here, huh? The guy who gives no woman a chance to fuck up his shit or the guy who’s too short-sighted to see that putting married pussy on a pedestal is beta as fuck? Check your shit. Fucking clowns up in here.

3409852034 · 2014-12-30T14:29:23+00:00

I don't think anyone is denying that sex is great, and pursuing women is fun. It's more about how an enlightened man approaches that.

TRP is about waking up and seeing the world how it really is. Some of this involves learning about the nature of women. But that's not the sum total of what TRP is, at least today. Some of the discussion here involves the expectations on men and attitudes towards masculinity in a general sense.

Generally speaking:

One one side you have men that see TRP as tactics to get women into bed. Lifting, hobbies, etc. are primarily focused on how it will increase their SMV.
On the other side you have guys who lift, have hobbies, etc. because it makes you a better man, regardless of the outcome beyond one's self.

So, it appears that the difference is the motivation behind the actions. I think the current discussion involves the amount of focus, energy, and dedication some men put into picking up women, and what one must "sacrifice" to do that. Some men feel that sleeping with women is a huge part of their life. Their priorities reflect that. On the other side, some men embrace the new Red Pill reality in other ways, focus on empowering themselves in other methods that don't necessarily involve being appreciated, validated, or anything like that: they do it for themselves.

Assuming that only one method is correct is naive. Not every guy is out there chasing chicks. That's fine. Let the guys who want to do that, do that. Just the same, if some guy wants to improve for himself, let him. Really, who cares what other people are doing?

It's the shaming from both sides that's puzzling. Why be invested in what other guys do? In that light, redpillschool's post is odd - if I'm interpreting it correctly, it's suggesting that self improvement has more merit when it's recognized by others. I say it's odd because that would imply one's self-perception partially or entirely is controlled and enabled by another (either a girl's validation or someone else). Having your reality controlled by someone else, especially a woman, doesn't sound RP to me.

SirNemesis · 2014-12-30T17:25:58+00:00

"Bro, stop worrying about what other people think. Make your life better for you! Go to the gym and feel better for you! You deserve this, nobody can put you down, it's all about you!"

This reminds me of the women who claim to wear makeup "for themselves". Yeaaah riiiight.

Glenbert · 2014-12-30T11:59:25+00:00

Problem with your thesis is that we are relatively weak compared to other primates. A chimp will rip your face of just for looking at him wrong. Women selected men for their resourcefulness not musculature. I'll give you height, perhaps.

Look, I've never downvoted a field report ever. But i managed to rack up my first dozen lays years ago before i had ever done a dead lift. Looking back it was my wit, my irreverence and always being slightly lubricated or high that helped me along. I was a resourceful little bastard too.

That said, i was on an unsustainable path. My career wasn't going anywhere and my relationships were very unstable. I went hard blue pill for a few years but that failed miserably. I came here on quasi monk mode looking for something better.

I don't need too much help from TRP when it comes to getting laid; I've had that covered since '95. I am here to learn about sustainable masculinity. I'm literally here for self improvement... and political incorrectness. Put me in the trad bucket of you must, but i don't even own a Bible.

Sure the masculine traits espoused here are attractive, but only because they are connected with social proof. We are veritable peacocks compared to other primates, because THAT is what women selected for. Otherwise we'd be a lot bigger, hairier, dumber and meaner.

DolorousRedd · 2014-12-30T12:04:59+00:00

Women define masculinity. They have for millions of years. It's no coincidence that the traits we call masculine (for example, strength) are the ones women find most desirable. Survival of the fittest, natural selection, evolution - alpha traits survive because women let them.

If women had decided they were attracted to men who were shorter, would the average height of men have risen so dramatically over our history like it has? No, it wouldn't have, it would've shrunk. And being tall would not be associated with masculinity, since those are the "undesirable" men now.

Throughout history, women favoured strong, muscular men - so more strong, muscular men were bred. Men who got some kind of rush from manual labour, or who excelled at it compared to others, they were more sexual desirable, so women chose them to mate with. If they didn't make these choices over the millenia, "you" would not be the same you who enjoys lifting weights.

A bigger, more muscular body wouldn't be an improvement if it hadn't made your ancestors more desirable. The reason you enjoy it may not consciously be for women, but it biologically is.

Chuck whatever trait you like in there and it holds true - they're an "improvement" not because men want them, but because women do.

Therefore, what we consider improvement is intrinsically linked with what women desire - so lift your weights, read your books, fix that slouch. Whatever reason you do it for, women fill find you more attractive for it. If you don't want to take the opportunities that will open up, it's up to you.

YouAreStone · 2014-12-30T12:42:29+00:00

Quite a bit of projection in this. No men ever went 30 years without food or water. Plenty have with sex so it obviously wasn't their priority.

And self improvement is not always based on external validation. We know this because sociopaths will still go to the gym.

token_stache · 2014-12-30T12:27:29+00:00

Getting laid isn't my top priority however I go on TRP for frank sex advice. That's the purpose of this sub. I don't think TRP is the center of most of our lives. It's got to see a post getting back to that.

LMS_THEORY_ · 2014-12-31T06:42:01+00:00

I couldn't disagree more OP. TRP started out not as anything remotely resembling sexual strategy, but as an 'unplugging' from the reality of sexual inequality across various circumstances, such as in divorce courts and higher education, and to console men of the true nature of women. The sexual strategy part came from the latter but has evolved into nothing more than thinly veiled pick up/seduction. TRP is a set of observable hypothesis or theories (in a scientific sense). Every man should have a sexual strategy, but it should be apart from TRP

[deleted] · Tue Dec 30 12:31:05 2014 UTC

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[deleted] · 2014-12-30T17:15:20+00:00

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alreadyredschool · 2014-12-30T14:13:14+00:00

I think the problem is idiots misunderstanding stuff.

Don't put pussy on a pedestal is a trick for picking up a single woman. When you now take this hint and define every focus on the other sex as putting it on a pedestal, you will end up with a weird abomination of don't put pussy on a pedestal.

And male hamstering. "I don't even want pussy, I want to lift" when in reality you are just afraid of getting rejected. These people are building their own castle of solitude because they don't want to leave their comfort zone.

[deleted] · 2014-12-30T16:56:35+00:00

Anybody who thinks they can magically attract women while looking like a fat, untoned piece of shit who lacks game is a dumbass. I haven't been here long but what I've gathered is that building your own empire first and foremost will garner the most attention from the female sex.

If you don't have a job, what good is fucking around with women?

If you're a social recluse with no friends and all you do is chase women all day and binge on pornography, how is that good for your "masculinity"?

You scored pussy? Wow, big fucking deal. Look at the bigger picture for god sake and don't be so close-minded.

Men have been successful because we've had a MISSION. If you base your mission entirely on banging hot, available women then by definition you have no purpose as a man. You're no better than animals at the zoo who can't think for themselves.

tl;dr You have a resolve. Realize your goals first before attempting to score pussy.

circlhat · 2014-12-30T12:38:28+00:00

I been saying this for day one, it seems we have so many basement dwellers with no job, that it becomes

/r/Getajobandbeadecentperson

Not all of us all /r/foreveralone and not all of us need to improve anything. (Looks,money,social skills) , The only thing that I needed was a change on how I perceive women.

I had the tools inside of me all alone , I don't know why so many members want to become /r/bodybuilding + /r/makingmoney + /r/socialskills

None of this is required to get women and /r/TRP doesn't hold a candle to any of those subs. It becomes very redundant and watered down whenever /r/TRP tries to give advice outside of getting women.

[deleted] · 2014-12-30T14:52:51+00:00

Sex is priority. It should not be #1 priority. That's what betas do. Improve yourself and pussy will follow. Improve yourself strictly for sex and you miss the whole point.

Entele · 2014-12-30T13:48:04+00:00

Thank you. That "self-improvement" point really hit home.

I have been in quite a rut of trying to improve myself before approaching anyone.

human_bean_ · 2014-12-31T00:22:03+00:00

I always thought Red Pill was about seeing the world as it is, not as you hope it would be, but alas. You claim you don't want the term hijacked, but it already was.

bobbatosakosanose · 2014-12-30T11:43:04+00:00

And women don't give two fucks what men think. They are truely free. We must always be tied to them and what they want right? Masculinity is defined by women? Give me a break. When women start giving a shit about men I might share your view. Male desire to be enslaved, as mentioned by Ester Vilar.

JackGetsIt · 2014-12-30T13:31:11+00:00

Your post comes off as an attempt to kick Monks and MGTOW's out of their homes and back into the sexual marketplace. That's really nice of you but why would you want to do that?

Personally I want to yell out to all hermits. "Please stay home! More women for me!" When those Monks and MGTOW do make the decision to pursue women they will be thankful that a good portion of the male population have stolen away to their bedrooms.

External validation is not only a common need among actual humans, but it's something that can cause severe cognitive dissonance, anxiety, and stress to pretend you don't need it.

I actually agree with this but I think you misunderstand the rp advice to seek internal validation. The advice given is normally a derivative of: 'If sex with women is your only validation or the highest validation you're setting yourself up for failure. If you ever go through a series of rejections, a dry spell, a breakup, or a divorce you will be devastated because your meaning was tied up with that other person. Be yourself and find solace in yourself and that will lead you to a variety of external validations not just hot sex.'

SubtleObserver · 2014-12-30T11:47:10+00:00

This is what happens when the place is infected by mass amounts of redditors. There's not a single healthy man in the world who wouldn't be happier if he knew how to game women. Except, learning game is hard. Harder then lifting weights, reading books, and "monk mode" (whatever the fuck that means). So of course people will come up with any kind of rationalization not to do it.

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bustergreenwood · 2014-12-30T22:02:03+00:00

Thank you for posting this thread. I have recently come under a lot of fire, my threads spammed with users accusing me of having multiple accounts, and I can hardly get good answers on my threads related to pursuing young and attractive women and making the most of your social life because some members of this sub (likely with multiple accounts themselves) go on my threads and downvote with them along with spamming the thread with accusations of me being past banned users.

All I wanted to do was generate discussions on:

How to make the most of your SMV once you are over 30.
How to get hot and young attractive girls (college girls).

What happens?

I get blacklisted by a select few on my threads for wanting that and how to achieve it. I am going to start asking the mods to take action against those specific people.

RedPillSafe · 2014-12-30T15:01:54+00:00

This post fits into what I consider the:

Pep Talk Speech

These are important posts for the young folks that have not been with women before.

To the older man Red Pill holds a different position. Many are old enough and experienced enough in life to have been through most of these life lessons before. We ultimately end up as Neoreactionaries.

So the Neoreactionaries will react negatively towards the "Pep Talk" because it detracts from the purely stoic and analytical aspect of Red Pill which is itself very solid.

Red Pill is amoral... it's pure truth... use it as you choose.

HumanSockPuppet · 2014-12-30T11:24:14+00:00

To any of you n00bs still bent on injecting your amateur "self-improvement" faggotry into the conversation, consider this:

Women are a major component of the Red Pill because in every civilization women are a tool used for keeping weaker men under control.

Men's libidos are powerful, inescapable motivators. Powerful men and manipulative women understand this, so they create laws, social mores, unspoken rules, and codes of conduct which shape women into instruments of social manipulation. That way, our libidos can be harnessed into keeping us productive and distracted.

Learning how to outmanoeuvre and control women in the sexual game is like commandeering your enemy's weapons in guerrilla warfare.

Becoming a master of seduction means trivializing the allure of pussy so that your libido can never be used against you, either by women (directly) or by men (who would control women in order to control you).

Women are the central focus of Red Pill so that they don't have to be the central focus of our lives.

Now shut the fuck up, deal with your fucking approach anxiety, and stop swimming in the pool until you learn not to piss yourself.

HeadingRed · 2015-01-05T23:39:28+00:00

"Just do it for yourself" would be fine if you want to be a hermit

If you don't worry about a career and only want to masturbate then that's just great. Keeps the competition down. The rest of us will earn and have a good time.

[deleted] · 2014-12-30T16:22:23+00:00

reading this post and the redpillschool quote I would like to point out that just because someone states something and you believe it doesn't make it true. it may make it seem true for you because you believe it but actually if it was true you would not have to believe... beliefs exist as a function of the ego driven mind avoiding truth. ex) gravity is not something you have to believe in, it is truth in this reality.

You may choose to fill your head with beliefs which are ultimately limiting but I do not and I do not see how this is an actual alpha trait or even remotely RP. Its egoic based beta rationalizing...Ironically.

[deleted] · 2014-12-31T00:18:35+00:00

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fuckin_retard · 2014-12-30T18:18:26+00:00

There are two reasons why "men" here are checking out of the game.

Unlike other endeavors, getting over the initial hump of sucking is way different when it comes to dating. If you can't lift your bodyweight on bench, its okay, you can start small. But if you crash and burn with a girl its a huge blow to your self esteem.
Furthermore, in most endeavors, success is somewhat tied to effort. Lifting weights, studying, and making money are good examples where consistent effort can yield good results. But with women, the results are often more elusive and inconsistent, and your self esteem can take a hit.

But being afraid of rejection and not pursuing women is as Beta as it gets. Either fuck lots of women, or start a family and pass on your lineage. Being MGTOW is not alpha. When it comes to sexual strategy, being alpha means being successful. MGTOW = quitting.

trafalgar112 · 2014-12-30T14:19:10+00:00

Congrats on being a pussy whipped enlightened mangina.

Women cannot make men happy.

The moment women control sexual choice is the moment society goes downhill. Dark Triad men are not good for society in any significant numbers.

Women need men to survive not the other way around. A man can go off conquer villages and return to finance his wife and reproduce even standing at 4 feet 400 pounds. Beta bux makes society go around.

Also note the womens height is the major factor on her son. If women aren't getting taller from proper nutrition, then men won't.

You sir are a slave to pussy. I strongly advise you to never post again

[deleted] · 2014-12-30T13:38:57+00:00

Posts like this get attacked like crazy? I'm done.

Verlier · 2014-12-30T14:43:23+00:00

You are right, but lately I feel so tired of everything, I can relate with just giving up on women.

But downvoting field reports is not good, not at all.

[deleted] · 2014-12-30T15:49:32+00:00

For us guys who have a small group of friends but don't hang out much what would you say?

I like spending time to myself to think. I have a very active mind so even when I'm with my friends my mind is other places. I'm not socially awkward. I'm attractive. I just don't like to hang out a lot.

I'll never be in a ltr because of this because I know I'll never truly be an alpha and I'll probably get cucked because I'm an intro.

Am I doomed to fuck chicks and kick them out for the rest of my life?

So you're not interested in women and only want to "self-improve"? Great, but TRP is and always will be about effective sexual strategies ["Do it for yourself, the pervasive hamster" by /u/redpillschool]

Do it for yourself! The Pervasive Hamster

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