The Sanction of The Victim

[deleted] · 2016-08-12T16:56:11+00:00

So basically man up?

Being the bigger man get tiresome, the people doing the shaming should stop being such vindictive little shits for once.

[deleted] · 2016-08-12T17:16:44+00:00

[permanently deleted]

[deleted] · 2016-08-12T17:16:03+00:00

Shame is you judging yourself based on what other people have told you about "right and wrong".

You do not have to accept the shame, just as you do not have to accept any other emotion.

[deleted] · 2016-08-12T18:11:13+00:00

I agree with all this.

You have the right to do whatever you want, so long as you are willing to accept the consequences.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2016-08-12T17:06:24+00:00

❤ Mommy sees you

[deleted] · 2016-08-12T20:50:03+00:00

[permanently deleted]

SetConsumes · 2016-08-12T17:29:08+00:00

People feel shame because of societal conditioning. It takes years of working on not feeling shame to get rid of such conditioning.

Shame is not an inherently bad thing, it's useful for society to have, and today our society generally lacks shame.

We waste so many resources on such trivial things. That is shameful.

drok007 · 2016-08-12T17:40:38+00:00

It's like that age old adage: If someone attempts to cross a line and fails, do you still administer an ass whooping?

I would think so. Doubly for being a bitch ass loser.

disposable_pants · 2016-08-12T17:54:52+00:00

A person cannot be shamed unless they are complicit in the shaming, they allow themselves to be shamed by buying into the shame the shamer is selling.

Shaming can affect you regardless of whether you buy into it or not. Take the high-profile case of Greg Hardy in the NFL.

What Hardy did or did not actually do is immaterial to this discussion (he was accused of beating his girlfriend, arrested, convicted in a bench trial with no jury, then acquitted when the accuser would not testify against him later, possibly as part of an out-of-court settlement). What's relevant is that A) his extremely promising career in professional football was completely destroyed due to shaming despite B) the fact that he maintained his innocence and never acted ashamed. How other people treat you has a material affect on your life whether you agree with their assessment of you or not.

alreadyredschool · 2016-08-12T18:20:53+00:00

My whole argument can be boiled down to one word: heretic!

ThirdEyeSqueegeed · 2016-08-12T18:59:59+00:00

A person cannot be shamed unless they are complicit in the shaming, they allow themselves to be shamed by buying into the shame the shamer is selling.

I kind of get what you're saying, but this is not really how it works. It's like saying a person cannot be lied to unless they are complicit in the lie. Or a person cannot be manipulated unless they are complicit in the manipulation. You need quite a high level of awareness to be able to spot liars and manipulators, and you need that to avoid being shamed too.

What you have to understand is that most men have been getting shamed since they were little boys to the point where it's engrained on their psyche. It takes a real conscious effort to then retrain your brain and deprogram yourself. This is why TRP teaches stuff like Amused Mastery, Holding Frame, etc. to help consciously train yourself to deal with these kinds of situations.

Anyway, to answer your question, no I don't think you can force shame on someone, but most of us have been conditioned from a young age to accept the shame, so I think there needs to be a breaking away from the herd and reprogramming first.

Actually reminds me of this:

One day, the Buddha and a large following of monks and nuns were passing through a village. The Buddha chose a large shade tree to sit beneath so the group could rest awhile out of the heat. He often chose times like these to teach, and so he began to speak. Soon, villagers heard about the visiting teacher and many gathered around to hear him.

One surly young man stood to the side, watching, as the crowd grew larger and larger. To him, it seemed that there were too many people traveling from the city to his village, and each had something to sell or teach. Impatient with the bulging crowd of monks and villagers, he shouted at the Buddha, "Go away! You just want to take advantage of us! You teachers come here to say a few pretty words and then ask for food and money!"

But the Buddha was unruffled by these insults. He remained calm, exuding a feeling of loving-kindness. He politely requested that the man come forward. Then he asked, "Young sir, if you purchased a lovely gift for someone, but that person did not accept the gift, to whom does the gift then belong?"

The odd question took the young man by surprise. "I guess the gift would still be mine because I was the one who bought it."

"Exactly so," replied the Buddha. "Now, you have just cursed me and been angry with me. But if I do not accept your curses, if I do not get insulted and angry in return, these curses will fall back upon you—the same as the gift returning to its owner."

The young man clasped his hands together and slowly bowed to the Buddha. It was an acknowledgement that a valuable lesson had been learned. And so the Buddha concluded for all to hear, "As a mirror reflects an object, as a still lake reflects the sky: take care that what you speak or act is for good. For goodness will always cast back goodness and harm will always cast back harm."

GaiusScaevolus · 2016-08-12T19:47:36+00:00

Except it's more than a feeling of "shame", If a man cries, he is treated as weak and suffers a social penalty. If a man responds physically to a women's physical attack, he is not only penalized socially, but legally and possibly economically as well.

ThrowawayCactus6012 · 2016-08-12T20:23:46+00:00

After reading some of the comments in this thread, I'm reminded of an old Doonesbury cartoon where a woman from Red China was visiting the U.S. In one strip, she was upset because:

"Someone called me a Communist!"

"But you are a Communist, aren't you?"

"Well, yes, but they made it sound so dirty!"

AutoModerator · 2016-08-12T16:51:52+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair, just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

despisedlove2 · 2016-08-13T04:14:55+00:00

Obviously. Shame exists only if you feel it.

betterdeadthanbeta · 2016-08-13T10:24:07+00:00

Over the last while on this sub I have noticed a lot of "women can do x and men must put up with and men can't do x". When I ask why men can't do x, I am told that they get shamed for it.

Question for you OP. Do you accept the same logic in reverse?

Ie, men can be studs but when women fuck around, they are slut shamed.

Should we simply forget the shamers and tell women to just choose not to accept the shame?

Title	The Sanction of The Victim
Author	susandeath
Upvotes	4
Comments	76
Date	August 12, 2016 4:51 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/4xei3b/the_sanction_of_the_victim/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-sanction-of-the-victim.273603 https://theredarchive.com/post/273603

Comments