Can masculinity or femininity ever be redefined?

DaphneDK · 2016-03-01T01:55:11+00:00

Not total redefinition, but when you look around at all the world’s cultures there is space for considerable variation.

Women wanting men that are bigger – or at least stronger – does seem to be pretty much universal though (don’t know about big Polynesian women). But still, the importance of taller men seem to be much more pronounced in the USA than for instance Europe, so also here is there room for variation.

ThrowawayCactus6012 · 2016-03-01T04:21:14+00:00

If you think they can be redefined, do you think this can reach total redefinition? Where, for example, the vast majority of women will acknowledge a new definition of masculinity, versus the old one. Or vica versa.

I think it can be done. That is, it's possible, but whether many people will actually want to do it is another thing. A lot of things have changed since the Industrial Revolution, yet a lot of people still cling to institutions and traditions formulated long before that time, such as religion, marriage, family - and this is often where traditional definitions of gender roles come into play. As long as most people continue to want these things, then trying to redefine gender roles will always be an uphill battle.

Wo-person · 2016-03-01T02:02:10+00:00

There’s something thrilling about being sheltered in the arms of a big strong man. If you’re big and strong, you have an automatic advantage over smaller men. You can offer something they can’t.

Sounds like a wet dream. Holding an actual weapon in your hands is much more thrilling and effective imo.

My question is, can the traditional constructs of femininity and masculinity, only in terms of physical appearance, and personality traits(do not laws or legal equality here) ever be redefined?

Sure, you can look at history if you want for various examples. You can even trace it back to hunter-gather societies. I mean, just take a look around: dad bods, man buns, metrosexuals, women wearing pants, more female college attendance than male, what is feminine and masculine is constantly changing.

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findingmrnemo · 2016-03-01T09:48:22+00:00

Yes, but only cause meaning of words can and do change over time. In terms of gender politics no they can not as we need them to define what is a man and women as well as what traits fall where. Without it nothing can be defined or discussed. Prime example is the infamous toxic masculinity topic feminists love to hammer on. Redefine masculinity and feminists can no longer say "toxic masculinity" as what they often talk about there is defined under masculinity. Without it you have bunch of traits feminists hate out in the wind uncategorized.

hakosua · 2016-03-01T10:59:54+00:00

The concepts of masculinity and feminity are being redefined constantly on a small scale. Women are now percieved as more romanticly inclined, whereas men are perceived as more sexually driven. I believe there have been historical periods where the reverse was true (can anyone with a background in history or Western literature either confirm or deny this?) There are also modern eras in which androgyny has been viewed as especially sexy (the 1980s, for example.)

Within contemporary culture, gender roles also vary by nationality, socioeconomic status, and ethnicity. For example, my dad is British and very even-tempered; growing up, I viewed even-temperedness as masculine. In contrast, I get the sense that a quick temper is also often perceived as masculine. So, the old-world Northern Europian notions of men as cool-headed sometimes conflict with the more Mediterranean concept of "machismo."

Physically, the feminine and masculine ideals also change. For example, "Rubenesque" women used to be percieved as extremely feminine but now we often cast the "fat chick" in more masculine roles because she's percieved as crude and physically powerful.

I'm not arguing that gender role stereotypes are completely fluid but they certainly aren't static either.

Clint_Redwood · 2016-03-01T12:11:00+00:00

Only too an extent and only through evolution and artificial selection.

Men will never be able to birth children, to that end, woman will always be the caregivers of the species.

Men will always be the ones to bring the children to age as they reach about 9 years old. Mothers are essential for the first years of upbringing while it's been shown that a lack of a father past 9 years has a detrimental effect on development.

Men and woman will always have a role to play in child rearing.

What will change is how we mate select. This is a dynamic that varies from each mammalian species. No longer do we have any true external threat to our survival of the tribe or species. We'll at least not any that we can fight with traditional muscles and power like our ancestors.

Woman find strong men attractive because they ensure a good chance of survival in the stone age. This mate selection will probably change within then the next 100,000 years or so.(assuming we don't kill our selves off first)

How we will mate select in the future isn't perfectly clear.

GridReXX · 2016-03-01T14:51:03+00:00

Depends on your definition.

I think masculinity denotes physical strength.

I sometimes encounter TRPers who seem to think it means intelligence, self-reliant, etc...

When I meet women who are intelligent, self-reliant, or persevering, I don't think they're masculine.

[deleted] · 2016-03-01T17:37:13+00:00

The only example I can think of this happening in the real world is that blue used to be the girl's colour and pink used to be the boy's colour and they swapped.

But that's seriously the best example I can come up with and I've not seen a better one ITT.

No I don't think they can really be redefined in any meaningful way. Yes, as one comment points out, "meterosexual" men exist, but they're labelled as such specifically due to their lack of masculinity. I don't think anyone will ever call a short fat man "masculine" just like no one will actually call a short fat woman "beautiful" (aside from other short fat women and a few fat white knight men online).

It doesn't matter how many agendas you try to push, you cannot negotiate desire.

ThirdEyeSqueegeed · 2016-03-01T20:07:34+00:00

Masculinity and femininity are natural, humans didn't invent them all we did was give them a name. Yin and Yang, chaos and order, etc.

Men and women both have a mixture of masculinity and femininity. On the spectrum of masculine and feminine, men are generally more masculine, women more feminine but there's some crossover.

The big, strong man with small, weak woman, creates a natural polarity where the man is (presumably) the masculine (active) protector and the woman is the feminine (passive) protected. This is natural. It comes from nature not from tradition.

TheShadowyScapula · 2016-03-01T21:31:37+00:00

Red and pink used to be too masculine and bold for little girls. Not anymore!

lbspredh · 2016-03-02T12:13:08+00:00

The next step is seeing it as more of a spectrum than a polar binary, some of gender is socially constructed and some is biologically influenced but it's not like you're either a manly man or a girly girl, the middle ground should be accepted and maybe even encouraged

haikufun · 2016-03-01T03:43:58+00:00

Women take distinct pleasure in being smaller and physically weaker than their partners.

I've dated taller and shorter than me. I like being big spoon. I like being small spoon. shrugs

duckyhunter · 2016-03-01T03:55:30+00:00

Yes, they can be redefined. Small penises were considered ideal in Ancient Greece.

energyvolley · 2016-03-01T03:58:02+00:00

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SkinnySweaty · 2016-03-01T16:49:46+00:00

Masculinity and Femininity get redefined constantly.

It just so happens that the manosphere, in their constant lusting and fantasizing abbot Chad Thundercock, has a very narrow definition of masculinity, which is nowhere near universally accepted. Other people and other groups define the terms differently, but TRP is not willing to emerge from their echo chamber to hear them.

Fine, keep following your mythical Chad and define masculinity however you want, free country and all that.

[deleted] · 2016-03-01T15:57:15+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	Can masculinity or femininity ever be redefined?
Author	gavinok
Upvotes	9
Comments	51
Date	March 1, 2016 1:46 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/48dudj/can_masculinity_or_femininity_ever_be_redefined/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/can-masculinity-or-femininity-ever-be-redefined.275911 https://theredarchive.com/post/275911

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