Which gender do you genuinely believe is more oppressed in the west?

MakeEmSayAyy · 2016-01-21T12:50:09+00:00

Nobody is oppressed in the west.. A couple hundred years ago starvation was still a thing. Now we just get on the internet and whine about trivial shit..

Only when the oil and ends will we see true human nature

Equilibriun · 2016-01-21T17:06:26+00:00

loaded question. I'm not a victim. Oppression is an excuse in the west. I can't get a job cause oppression. I can't get laid cause oppression. I'm poor cause oppression. Feminism cause oppression. These fucks have no idea what that word means.

Xemnas81 · 2016-01-21T12:58:45+00:00

Neither.

This identity politics 'war' if you can call it that, more like massive merry go round, was started by the elites to tear apart their subjects, the middle class who create theory challenging the system, and the working class who have the sheer man-power to, if they wish, incite revolution or put the workforce on strike. It's a tale as old as time, that's been raging since the earliest days of the Enlightenment. The peasantry and bourgeoisie vs. the aristocracy and monarchy.

You cannot come to any conclusion except Oppression Olympics operating within a Marxist paradigm. Feminism is essentially gender-specific Marxism. Replace proletariat with women and minorities, and the factory owners with cis white male.

By utilising our innate fears of the Other against us, they have launched the middle class and 'intellectuals' among us with time into an endless bickering match-predomiantly the timeless Conservatives vs. Liberals-which distracts us from those pulling the strings.

The working class can be placated by sensationalist media and worn down by the daily grind. Their needs on Maslow's pyramid are much lower and more immediate for survival, so they have less time to be contemplating the ethics or merits of such and such theory. They have little access to the higher echelons of education, and are in the UK at least reliant upon state-mandated National Curriculum. The are taught what to think, how to pass exams and keep stats of young people entering higher education or the workforce up, not how to think. Why? Because a high education rate=more votes for the party in power. In the past, peasants didn't even have access to education, they were illiterate and were reliant on word of mouth or trusting educated authorities such as their religious officials (we all know how that turned out!)

The middle class have more time to self-actualise and concern themselves with 'higher' matters, being well fed and sheltered, and historically have been the people who pondered. The lower middle class, the educated but self-made workers or bourgeoisie, sprang most of the ideas for our revolutions. The upper middle class always had the tastes of dining with the elite to corrupt their interests, but many critiqued the system themselves.

A large portion of the liberal middle class form the academic elites of the Cathedral, the professors in the ivory towers who determine what gets researched. Inevitably, what gets researched in the social sciences, liberal arts and Humanities is…well, something which fits in with a contemporary Marxist narrative. So in this case, SJW-ism, also known as intersectional feminism in its milder form.

The Cathedral determines what 'research' tells the working class public, which shapes social attitudes. Often the government elites will bribe the Cathedral into working on certain ideologies which fit with their manifesto/social and economic policies.It is very, very strongly in the interests of any country which signed the Geneva Convention and is part of the UN to conform to neo-liberal discourse. So, Human Rights. Pro-immigration. Multiculturalism. Cosmopolitanism. Political correctness.

In this case, Feminism is a massive cash cow now, not only covering women and sexism but racism, LGBTQ-rights, and to some extent the issues of all the needy and vulnerable. It fits perfectly into a contemporary Marxist framework-the late 2nd and 3rd wave having originated in the Frankfurt schools-allowing the voernment them to act concerned about their (basically) subjects, and keeping them against one another rather than seeking for revolution.

The people always need to have an enemy, a scapegoat. Without one, they will turn to their rulers, inevitably. It's much more efficient to turn them against themselves.

Law #31: Control the options. Make people play from the hand that you deal.

The powers that be have been playing this game for a long, long time now. You can call it patriarchy but that would be missing the point. Oppression is not about rich and powerful white men, it's about money and power, full stop.

There is one serious issue with all of this; Communism failed us. Marxism failed. Capitalism is imperfect, but what alternatives are there? I said earlier to a friend, they who can philosophise a both ethical and resource-efficient post-Marxist sociological explanation will be our next great thinker.

exit_sandman · 2016-01-21T12:58:37+00:00

I wouldn't say "oppressed", but women are definitely at an advantage in our society. They have options men don't have, and if they pick the more convenient but worse-paying options, they have a whole movement committed to saying how awful and sexist that is, thus justifying giving them even more advantages. And on top of that they get constantly blown smoke up their ass.

midnightvulpine · 2016-01-21T11:30:50+00:00

I think the question is pointless because it's a distraction from fixing real issues. People point it out ni discussions all the time, but playing oppression Olympics wastes time and ends with battle lines drawn that go against the sort of compromise needed for change.

As long as everyone is arguing about who has it worse, who has time to change anything?

ee4m · 2016-01-21T12:45:21+00:00

Men, by all the measures used to measure oppression.

[deleted] · 2016-01-21T14:59:02+00:00

Neither. Each gender has advantages and disadvantages. While it's true the MSM focuses disproportionately on women's issues, I don't think that makes men more oppressed either. Like /u/squidracer said no one is oppressed in the west.

dakru · 2016-01-21T16:08:36+00:00

I don't think that either gender counts as "oppressed".

[deleted] · 2016-01-21T16:43:07+00:00

neither gender is oppressed in the west. we need to stop using these buzzwords. virtually no one in the west is starving, risking beatings, being killed in mass, prohibited from owning property, land, slavery is illegal, and so forth. Neither governments nor private companies are TRULY hurting people and their well being. yes, you have certain situations like police brutality in urban (aka black) communities (debatable) and the current water situation in Flint, Michigan....but overall, living in the west is pretty fucking awesome.

Oppression to me is waking up at 7 years old and being married off to your brother and forced to birth 5 children before your 15th birthday or they'll accuse you of being a sloot/bitch/traitor to your family and stone you to death in public. Or having no agency or jurisdiction over your own body or future because you're a child soldier and you have to murder your own family upon fear of death.

Those are not extreme examples. They're super common in certain regions of the world. that to me is oppression.

Hurt feels, the inability to have sex whenever you want, not getting paid what the next guy makes, and suggesting that 18-25 year old Muslims from the Middle East may be terrorists is not oppression.

[deleted] · 2016-01-21T18:07:16+00:00

The poor.

Oh wait, that is not a gender, so no one care about them. Quick , invent a poorsexual so that they get the attention of tumblr.

Villaintine · 2016-01-21T18:53:36+00:00

I don't think anyone is repressed by gender in the west, and when I say that I'm speaking only in regards to being a man or a woman because all of the other "gender identities" are bullshit. Each sex has benefits and disadvantages within society, but none to the point of "oppression." That isn't to say there aren't oppressed groups in the west, just not based on sex.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2016-01-22T13:22:57+00:00

By most metrics used to measure the success of a demographic men are doing worse.

When you compare education, justice, health, etc between men and women it's like comparing blacks to whites.

And no one argues that we live in a culture that unfairly benefits blacks over whites (well maybe unabashed bigots).

GridReXX · 2016-01-21T15:06:55+00:00

Which gender do you genuinely believe is more oppressed in the west?

Transgender.

ee4m · 2016-01-21T11:58:14+00:00

Nobody is more "oppressed". Both genders face their issues and they are all important. Extreme feminists always try to discredit male problems and extreme MRA's discredit female problems. That way, no one wins.

betterdeadthanbeta · 2016-01-21T12:20:02+00:00

Gender related "oppression" doesn't exist in the west. However, the advantage of being able to claim it does, and that it's working against you, is quite tangible.

If anyone is still oppressed in the west, it's the extremely poor. Though, most of them are genetically inferior anyway, so it doesn't really matter.

kick6 · 2016-01-21T22:10:52+00:00

Neither. Real oppression is what's happening to women under Sharia law in the middle east.

theeRedPillBuckeye · 2016-01-22T04:41:07+00:00

The West is fine.

The Tutsis were oppressed in Rwanda in the early 90s. I consider risking decapitation or the forced removal of your arms and legs as a form of torture to be oppression.

Eastern Syrian and Northern Iraqi Christians have been suffering some horrendous oppression since Daesh and the FSA and AQ took over the area of the "caliphate". Women being forced into Sexual Jihad which is essentially just fucking like 200 Hajis a month to relax them. Men, as is typical of such conflicts (sorry/good for you ladies) get the sharper end of the spear: murder by immolation, blunt-blade beheadings, beatings, rapes (yeah, them too), death by the hundreds of thousands.

Again, the modern western world is fine.

Not since the 1800s, when slavery still was a staple of the American South, the Caribbean and some European colonies have westerners been truly oppressed. It's unfortunate it has taken 150 years, and yet still we have not figured out how to have blacks and whites coexist peacefully.

VermiciousKnidzz · 2016-01-23T00:08:30+00:00

probably the gender that wasn't allowed to vote until a few decades ago. probably the gender that only makes up a small fraction of politics. probably the gender that doesnt even have full access to 100% necessary medical services for some insane reason that i cant even fathom.

[deleted] · 2016-01-22T19:23:55+00:00

Most people are too self-absorbed and insulated from actual oppression to understand just how good they have it. Especially in the west. Particularly in the USA.

Humanity is a constant struggle between the good and evil aspects of human nature.

It hasn't even been 20 years since 800,000 people were hacked to death by machetes in less than one month in Rwananda. There are real problems to solve and real evil exists. People have short memories and are apathetic and selfish. Understanding that is one of the first steps to solving the big problems of the world. A better future is only achievable through humanity's continued accumulation of knowledge.

provanagotannat · 2016-01-23T18:32:17+00:00

Females are under Males in the social hierarchy. This is facts. To argue agains this is equal to argue that White people are under Black people in the social hierarchy.

However, I do not belivie it is possible to say ALL women are more oppressed than men. Because there is so many more factors to consider when it comes to social structures. Who has the higher education? Is someone disabeld? Is the person black or white? A white woman with a college education is higher on the social hierarchy than a black man without an college education. A heterosexual woman and a homosexual man - who is more oppressed? Is it even possible to say? And this is on a very social survey kind off level.

Then we take it down to a personal level. Who is better at making friends? Who has good parents?

I don't know if there is a right answer to this question. At least not in the west.

BossLaidee · 2016-01-21T17:11:14+00:00

I think this is relevant.. From the book "Why Does he Do That?"

"Often the Victim claims to be victimized not only by you but also by his boss, his parents, the neighbors, his friends, and strangers on the street. Everyone is always wronging him, and he is always blameless.

... This line of reasoning many times develops into a discussion of how men are the victims of women overall in society, because women run the world. This is a startling distortion, given which gender actually dominates almost all legislatures, police departments, judgeships, businesses, and so on ad nauseam. When I point out this reality to the Victim, he describes a kind of paranoid fantasy in which women are behind the scenes secretly pulling the strings, largely by getting men to feel sorry for them. His capacity for turning things into their opposites in this way is a central cause of his abusiveness."

I don't interpret this as women being "more oppressed" by men, I logically think there are societal benefits and drawbacks to each gender (and even "benefits" like the option to be a stay at home mother comes with drawbacks for career-oriented women who are judged or dismissed by judgmental men in the workforce.)

The real issues stem from this victim mentality. This blocks out reason and empathy for challenges others must face according to race, gender, sexual orientation, age, etc.

Edits b/c "iPhone grammar"

nemma88 · 2016-01-21T12:12:34+00:00

That's something pretty hard for any one person to judge, really.

For each person each different thing matters to a more or lesser extent which changes how important that and the measurement of 'oppressed scale'. Even then a man would have to imagine being in the shoes of a woman, and a woman in the shoes of a man to consider every point (and between the two no doubt there would be hundreds of points) Overall, as individuals were more likely to believe it's our own gender unless there are some obvious glaring injustices to the other we know of.

Really, there is little point in trying to debate who is 'more' oppressed based on what they 'believe'. If you wanted a factual answer it would require hundreds if not thousands of men and women to each bring and measure all points from both genders which eventually are scaled, filed and ranked mathematically.

Who I, you, BP or RP 'believe' is more oppressed is of little consequence, really. The only thing that matters is if /when people are actively trying to make a difference.

chasingstatues · 2016-01-21T17:50:59+00:00

Poor minorities are oppressed.

Another1Another1 · 2016-01-21T15:18:09+00:00

Black people

despisedlove2 · 2016-01-23T11:48:59+00:00

ITT first world problems.

DivinePrince2 · 2016-02-01T09:10:13+00:00

Men.

But in the East, Women have it really bad. I'm talking beheading, public rape, beatings etc... Men can get it bad too ( Slavery, forced into war etc...) but I don't think it's at the level that women have it.

So I don't really care about 1st world 'oppression' in the first place. There are bigger problems that need to be solved first.

Title	Which gender do you genuinely believe is more oppressed in the west?
Author	MakeEmSayAyy
Upvotes	0
Comments	132
Date	January 21, 2016 11:12 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/41zhzj/which_gender_do_you_genuinely_believe_is_more/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/which-gender-do-you-genuinely-believe-is-more.276773 https://theredarchive.com/post/276773

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