Are women 'irrational' and men 'rational'?

ZenerDiod · 2015-09-26T19:06:19+00:00

Neither gender is rational, I would rather have sex with a bitchy retarded supermodel then a pleasant Rhodes Scholar with a busted face, how is that rational?

Men's advantage is they typically are better then women at seeing past their current emotional state(their decisions are less clouded by feels of the moment). Women's advantage is they are typically better are suppressing not making dumbass decisions solely based off their sex drive(). There are plenty exceptions to both these rules.

Lalaithial · 2015-09-27T00:36:03+00:00

I disagree with putting emotional at the opposite end of the spectrum as rational. Emotions, beliefs, opinions, ideas, all of these things can be rational or irrational. If your parent died and you are sad, that is a rational emotional response. Grief is a reasonable and logical response to loss. If someone handed you the wrong color pen and that made you so angry you punched a wall, that is an irrational emotional response.

Emotion and empathy are useful, important and very often rational things that we need to exist in society. People who suppress them or ignore their importance often end up worse off because of it. Just one example here; http://psychcentral.com/news/2011/03/24/suppressed-emotions-can-lead-to-aggression/24643.html

So in this case, if we know that ignoring emotion leads to bad consequences wouldn't it then be irrational to ignore them?

If we can agree that rationality and emotion are not at opposing ends of the spectrum, then how emotional a woman or a man is makes no difference as to how rational they are. With this in mind, I would say there is very little reason to say that either gender is more or less rational. I think that rationality or irrationality is probably more influenced by upbringing and education.

*Edit - Left out a word

[deleted] · 2015-09-26T18:33:21+00:00

Because by paying attention to body language and tone we are better at guessing someones real intention behind what they are saying?

The problem with guessing is that most of the time, people guess wrong, and one might have to objectively ask whether this is a truly reliable method of evaluating the merit and veracity of whatever someone is saying. Especially since there are people who are quite adept at lying with their body language and tone just as easily as they can lie with their words.

I think humans have a capacity towards rationality and irrationality, although culturally, irrationality is much less accepted in men than it is in women. In some ways, I think our culture even encourages women to be more irrational and embrace their emotional side - and that men are not allowed to criticize this phenomenon, lest they be accused of "misogyny." (And most of these accusations of "misogyny" are a result of an irrationality which is beyond measure.)

To be honest, I find that the women of my grandmothers' generation were far more rational and level-headed than nowadays. So, I think that women are certainly capable of rationality, but for some reason, the past few generations of women either haven't gotten the same lessons in rationality that previous generations did - or they just consciously choose to be irrational for their own purposes.

TheChemist158 · 2015-09-26T18:13:05+00:00

Hi this is my first post here so I hope Im doing this right.

Welcome, and don't worry about it. There's a list of very simple rules in the sidebar, and the mods tend to be very laid back.

I think you make a good point on rational versus emotional (though I don't like the generalizations). Emotional intelligence is a real thing, and not just the opposite of being rational. Understanding your own emotions and the emotions of people around you, while still being able to make decisions rationally is a very powerful combination.

Though I think that both of these things need to be cultivated, and aren't inherent to a person based on their sex. We all start out of kids, who are ruled almost entirely by emotions and have poor understanding of the feelings around us. We naturally grow out of that, but if we want to continue to grow we need to put in effort. This goes for thinking critically and building emotionally intelligence.

anacrassis · 2015-09-26T18:46:15+00:00

Most people would agree women are more likely to be openly emotional and base decisions on emotions compared to men. Female brains literally process emotion differently so I don't think this is controversial.

However the wording used here, rational vs. irrational, implies a value judgement whereby emotion is inferior to cold logic.

This is where it comes down to a matter of personal views. There are those who prioritise logic over emotion (and I admit I am one), those who prioritise emotion over logic, and those who think both have equal importance. There's a good representation of all on PPD.

Personally I think assessing logic as more important than emotion is sensible. Emotional reactions are simply a reflex whereas logic requires critical thought. I put more stock into rational thought than a reflex, so that's what I base most of my views on and it's how I analyse things in my day to day life. I think this line of thought is very functional too. Manipulation is something that comes up often here. The other day I was watching Mr Robot (fucking awesome show) and the guy has to do some social engineering to get inside a corporate network, and in the narration he talks about how people have vulnerabilities which you can exploit just like hacking a computer. A realistic way of seeing the world honestly. Not a nice fluffy one on an emotional level, but a realistic useful one on a logical level.

Archwinger · 2015-09-26T18:10:25+00:00

It's more a question about how men and women process things, how they prioritize things, how they navigate social situations as a result.

"Rational" isn't really the best word. Because to a woman, her priorities and ways of doing things seem perfectly rational.

crestind · 2015-09-26T21:04:55+00:00

No. All humans are inherently irrational meat robots.

purple_pill_of_death · 2015-09-26T22:29:07+00:00

Woman: "Let's just be friends, k?"

Man: "OMG she totally wants to fuck me!"

What's so rational about that? hahah. Most people are irrational when it comes to sex and relationships. Age and experience tend to make someone more rational, but not always.

Also, it's human nature to insist that anyone who does or says something you don't agree with is being "irrational". You voted for Candidate A? Candidate B is obviously the better choice. You are clearly irrational! You are clearly emotional and not making the LOGICAL choice!! Sheesh, if everyone were as LOGICAL as me then the whole world would be so much better!

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2015-09-27T19:38:33+00:00

I don't think either gender is more prone to irrationality by genetics.

Culturally though we seem to make more excuses for women women act irrationally.

Women can cite female intuition or their feelings.

Men need facts if anyone is going to take them seriously.

Tom_The_Human · 2015-09-26T19:49:23+00:00

Women have less control over their emotions than men, which makes them seem more irrational. In a situation where emotions are removed, they are just as rational.

LUClEN · 2015-09-26T20:27:02+00:00

You could make a good case for both being irrational by only focusing on one or the other. It would be most optimal for both genders to focus on both aspects so that they can draw conclusions on the greatest amount of information possible, rather than trying to decide with only half the picture.

betterdeadthanbeta · 2015-09-27T00:23:30+00:00

Emotions can be useful. They're a sort of heuristic, an instinctive system that helps us navigate social settings in an advantageous fashion. A rational person listens to their emotions and then decides how to respond to them in a way that serves his conscious objectives. An extremely rational person might even decide his emotions are invalid; in essence giving greater weight to his own wisdom than the wisdom of evolution in this specific instance.

An irrational person is more prone to simply kick back and let his emotions guide his decision making without much interference or activity taking place in the frontal lobe. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, just like it isn't necessarily good to be too unemotional. Emotions give us a certain impetus and purpose in life; irrational, impulsive, emotional decision making can often be attractive to others since it reflects their own unconscious desires. Hence our fascination with the loose cannon, the risk taking alpha male, the crazy party girl.

I guess what I'm getting at is: this a huge grey area.

[deleted] · 2015-09-27T00:26:23+00:00

See, thing is, PEOPLE are irrational.

Religion absolutely could not survive if there was even an inkling of rational thought given to it. Yet it flourishes. Why? Because people are lazy and don't want to question things. It's just easier to be irrational and maintain cognitive dissonance than to actually challenge your beliefs.

ECoast_Man · 2015-09-27T00:52:00+00:00

I see it said a lot here by red pillers that women are irrational. I don't understand it. I agree that we (women) usually are more emotional than men but I don't get why this is irrational.

Rationality means rational-decision making. This is a specific thing which means that one takes the time to assess their own self-interest, gather the maximum amount of information, assess which choices would provide the best outcome relative to their self-interest, and go with it.

Emotion-based decision-making involves no such conscious activity. It's merely, I feel this way (at the moment) so let's go with that.

It's not what you have described, taking more notice from social cues than facts. Social cues can be equally as informative as content. This merely refers to the information gathering portion (women will gather based on social cues more than content).

But that's an entirely different issue than the decision-making process itself.

[deleted] · 2015-09-27T01:32:28+00:00

I think it mostly depends on the individual . Sure men might TEND to be more rational , but as a whole they aren't.

[deleted] · 2015-09-27T03:17:53+00:00

You're using the wrong terms. The correct distinction is logical versus emotional. Men operate on a set of logic, however flawed or irrational it may be. Whereas women operate based off their current emotional state.

Both have the capability of being rational or irrational.

[deleted] · 2015-09-27T05:54:19+00:00

Logic is a hard thing to pin down. And people can arrive at the same goal by using different sets of logic.

Just say there were men on an island with one tree of coconuts and women on another island with a tree of coconuts.

The men:The most risk-taking of the men might attempt to climb the tree and become injured. A couple of the men might decide there's not enough coconuts to go around and decide to fight each other to the death (emotion). One man would decide a ladder needs to be built and would direct the others to gather materials to build one. They get the coconuts.

Women are generally more risk-averse and perhaps none would decide to climb up to the coconuts (or lack the body strength to do so). A couple of the women might cry because they are hungry (emotion). The rest would join together, without a leader, to build a ladder. They get the coconuts.

An observer might say that the men are getting in there and trying something straight away while the women are still standing around talking (and some crying). But in the end, both the men and women achieved the objective - just tackled it in different ways.

[deleted] · 2015-09-28T14:07:18+00:00

If women pay attention to body language and to tone more than what people are saying on the face of it, doesn't that make us more rational?

No. It means you are looking for subtext where there may be none.

Because by paying attention to body language and tone we are better at guessing someones real intention behind what they are saying?

Except that most people aren't being deceptive all the time. Most generally mean exactly what they are saying. So looking for hidden meanings in every social interaction is very irrational.

nomdplume · 2015-09-26T19:32:52+00:00

I agree that we (women) usually are more emotional than men but I don't get why this is irrational.

It's not. To a woman.

To a man, it looks/seems/is irrational.

Men often try to keep emotions/feelings out of decision making and rely solely on "logic" and "reason" to guide them. This, of course, is totally illogical to many women, who believe that it is entirely logical to incorporate strong feelings into their decision making, even if those feelings defy some aspects of "reason."

Look at childbirth/having children. That is a completely unreasonable thing to do. Until recently, the decision to have a child was literally a decision to play Russian roulette (death in childbirth was the number one killer of women, IIRC). It makes no sense.

But, fortunately for the human race, women don't necessarily have to have things make sense in order for them to decide they are important and need to pursue them.

Being married, I've had so many opportunities to witness this play out. My wife is committed to being rational and logical (and she often succeeds, though she really has to work at it), but she also knows when to throw all that out the window and follow a feeling. Which, of course, drives me fucking crazy, because I'm not privy to the same motivations that she is, and I need things to make sense from an intellectual standpoint. That difference is the source of some of our biggest clashes and epic battles.

But that's also why working in tandem can be very helpful. In my marriage, she's the gas pedal and I'm the brake. She gets to bring her strong feelings/emotions, I bring the voice of "reason" and "logic" (pragmatism) to reign that in when necessary.

Neither of us would be as successful individually as we are together (when we are actually working together, which hasn't happened much for the last few years).

hippydipster · 2015-09-26T20:01:06+00:00

Because by paying attention to body language and tone we are better at guessing someones real intention behind what they are saying?

If you want to say that's equally, or more rational, then you're going to have to accept when someone asks you, when you appear mad about something, if you're on the rag.

See how guessing at what's "really" going on with someone beyond the words they say could be an extremely bad thing to do?

polyhooly · 2015-09-27T03:36:21+00:00

What it means when research says that women are more emotional than men is that women are better at recognizing their own emotions and the emotions of others. That's it. The tests they use to conclude this are things like showing people a serious of pictures of people expressing different emotions, and how correctly the subjects identify the emotion being displayed.

What it does not mean is that women base their decisions on rash, spur of the moment feelings with little to no regard to rationality. If you believe this, you're an idiot who has no idea what they're talking about.

TrialsAndTribbles · 2015-09-26T19:02:07+00:00

The more emotional I become (male or female) the less rational I can think. This is a fundamental difference if we assume women are more emotional. Women are more social as well, which is why they pay attention to body language and tone more. Women are also more violent in the context of relationships as well.

redmachines · 2015-09-26T19:30:23+00:00

No. Women have crap social skills and are not very good at reading body language. Just look at rising number of single mothers in the US. More women are getting burned by males who are way more cunning than them. Clearly if they were were so "rational", they would be better at spotting the men looking to pump and dump and the ones looking for a real relationship. The truth is women think with their vagina and are encouraged to do so in a society that no longer punishes women for making these kind of mistakes.

Dietyz · 2015-09-26T23:22:44+00:00

By comparison women have more inconsistencies between their conscious desires and their subconscious desires. This leads to situations in which one will act in a way that is different from the way that they say they act.

For example, a mans conscious desire might be "i want to fuck her while shes on birth control" and his subconscious/instinct would be "I wanna cum in her pussy and knock her up". These 2 things are pretty close. Women have a larger list of opposites when it comes to conscious vs subconscious because men that portray the survival instincts that are found to be generally attractive in nature aren't necessarily successful in our modern society. Like an ugly, short guy can be a very powerful authority figure or a sexy, jacked dude could be homeless

Its the reason TRP says "don't listen to what women say, only the way they behave" because your conscious desires are mostly comfort based and subconscious are more likely to be based on emotions. Conscious desires only matter once an emotional foundation has been built between 2 people, "nice guys" are the guys who skip that part and only appeal to conscious desires.

[deleted] · 2015-09-26T20:03:06+00:00

Something something STEM

Title	Are women 'irrational' and men 'rational'?
Author	blushingpancakethrow
Upvotes	5
Comments	67
Date	September 26, 2015 6:04 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3mhmz5/are_women_irrational_and_men_rational/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/are-women-irrational-and-men-rational.279373 https://theredarchive.com/post/279373

Comments