A Debate on consenting while drunk.

bromance946 · 2015-09-25T19:33:37+00:00

It depends on what happens after she says "fuck me". If he makes a move and she responds, then of course not. If he makes a move and she passes out, and he undresses her and fucks her in a passed out state, then yes.

GridReXX · 2015-09-25T19:41:24+00:00

No.

However like another poster said, if she happens to pass out on the couch before sex commences and he fucks her while she is comatose because "she hinted at consent earlier in the night," well then legally and IMO it would be rape and just weird.

LeaneGenova · 2015-09-25T19:27:13+00:00

Unless there is something else going on that we don't know in this hypothetical, probably not.

One of the ways that prosecutors make the call on whether or not there has been any alcohol facilitated sexual assault is to assess the states of the individuals involved.

Here are some of the questions asked:

● Did she black out?

● Did she vomit?

● Could she speak? Was she slurring? Was she able to communicate coherently?

● Was she able to walk or did someone (in particular, the defendant) have to carry her? Did she have to lean on someone?

● Was she able to dress/undress herself?

● Were her clothes disheveled?

● Was she responsive or in a nonresponsive state?

● Was she able to perform physical tasks or was her coordination impacted? For example, did she light the wrong end of a cigarette or spill things?

● Did she urinate or defecate on herself?

● What was her level of mental alertness?

● Did she do anything else to indicate whether she was capable of cognitive functioning? For example, did she use her credit card? Did she use her cell phone or e-mail?

The more of those point towards incapacity, the less likely an individual is to consent. In our hypothetical, it's pretty clear that she had capacity, and wasn't completely intoxicated.

andrewisgood · 2015-09-25T19:23:03+00:00

One issue with drunk is, I guess for me, you can tell when someone is drunk, at least I'm getting better at it. You can see it in their eyes and such. This person doesn't sound drunk. So I guess it wouldn't qualify because I don't think the person is drunk.

I feel the scenario though is a little out there and a made up fantasy. If Ashley does not seem overtly attracted to Craig, why would she call him? This story has more holes in it then my gym pants after the dog got a hold of them. If this is the story Craig told, I wouldn't believe him, haha. But, if the scenario was true, I don't believe it would be rape.

Sleela17 · 2015-09-25T20:44:28+00:00

I'm as feminazi as they come (I'm even on tumblr!) and I say this is not rape.

I'm also creeped out because both people in this story share names with close relatives of mine.

drok007 · 2015-09-25T19:14:40+00:00

Except for the most retarded of BPers, who is going to say this is rape?

TheChemist158 · 2015-09-25T20:17:14+00:00

I always feel kinda awkward when hypotheticals involve my name. But ignoring that and proceeding.

This gets into the age old debate of if drunk people (well, women) can consent. I know that the general idea is that she (because it is never a he) is not in a state of mind capable of giving consent, much like a child or mentally challenged person. The issue that I see is that these people didn't choose before hand to have dimmed mental abilities. When you get drunk, you do make that choice. And getting drunk isn't an excuse for poor decisions because of this. If you run over a person, you don't get let go because you were drunk. You also don't usually get out of signing a contract because you were drunk either. Of course a key part of this is that you are still able to act, and express a will. You made a choice to operate your car, or you choose to sign the paper. If you are drunk to the point where you cannot express your will and someone has sex with you, yes, that is rape. But the situation in the OP? No, it is not rape.

belletaco · 2015-09-25T20:57:40+00:00

Did she say "no" before they went to actually have sex or during the act of sex? Did she pass out mid sex and he kept going? Did she pass out at any point and he fondled or molested her in anyway? If not then it's not rape.

ProtoPill · 2015-09-25T19:45:58+00:00

Note: This only involves a personal opinion, regardless of what would be decided legally or not.

Your disclaimer is a non-starter. Rape is a defined legal term. Rape is not and never will be a moral term. Within the literal definition of rape are legal elements that must be made according to proof. You cannot dissect the word from it's definition; therefore, any attempt to redefine nullifies the word entirely. You can ask the group here whether the conduct in your hypothetical is morally repugnant or blameworthy, but you cannot ask if the conduct is rape under a moral regime.

Taking your question under both constructs:

No, it is not "rape," because it does not meet the legal elements of rape.

No, it is not "morally repugnant," "blameworthy," or otherwise "wrong" because the facts suggest no immoral conduct.

CisWhiteMaelstrom · 2015-09-25T20:26:31+00:00

Yes it's rape because Ashley's a woman and Craig's a man.

CreepyPsychoStalker · 2015-09-25T19:55:29+00:00

Unless there's something we haven't been told it's not rape and I don't see anything wrong with it. She doesn't sound too impaired to make the decision, so girl gets laid with a guy she might not usually be interested in.

thereddespair · 2015-09-25T19:09:49+00:00

you mean someone actually says this is rape?....

ThirdEyeSqueegeed · 2015-09-25T19:11:20+00:00

No. It's definitely not rape. In this case she was literally asking for it.

What was the general consensus on Facebook?

super-commenting · 2015-09-25T19:20:37+00:00

That's obviously not rape. Anyone who disagrees is retarded.

dundundundone · 2015-09-25T19:27:34+00:00

didn't you make a post just like this not too long ago?

CursedLemon · 2015-09-25T21:47:04+00:00

Legal nonsense aside, I don't see the difficulty in assessing when it is acceptable to pursue and when it isn't. I really do not.

Yonderlander · 2015-09-26T21:27:28+00:00

Of course not. Unless, as everyone else writes, she passes out and then he rapes her. So its only rape...if it is rape.

Getting drunk and hooking up is a thing, no-one is saying that any drunk sex is rape. There is obviously a line though which you cross when a person is completely and utterly out of it and has no idea what is going on. It is irritating when people twist that to ask if it is rape when people hook up drunk, I feel like they are wilfully misunderstanding in order to discredit actual rape victims.

wuboo · 2015-09-25T19:30:29+00:00

Dude, you should try harder.

vinegarbubblegum · 2015-09-25T20:10:14+00:00

I replied to this - arguing it was rape - then deleted my reply, because this shit is actually airtight, upon reflection.

Title	A Debate on consenting while drunk.
Author	gavinok
Upvotes	0
Comments	59
Date	September 25, 2015 6:59 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3mdcvd/a_debate_on_consenting_while_drunk/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/a-debate-on-consenting-while-drunk.279388 https://theredarchive.com/post/279388

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