Do you members of TRP believe that most of Reddit thinks that TRP is toxic, misogynist and misleading for no reason? Or is there a reasonable, logical and practical explanation for this phenomenon? Are the members of TRP at fault for this? If not who is? And are these generalizations unfair?

Denswend · 2015-01-01T22:24:55+00:00

I've written before about this phenomenon and I'm going to simply repeat this :

The problem isn't that RP is extremist. I've argued before that if you compare moderate feminism to RP, and even radical feminism to RP, you will find that RP is more "moderate" in their beliefs than both. RadRPs want to ban women from voting (while giving credible arguments for), while RadFems consider Principia Mathematica a rape manual. The problem is that Overton Window is so far in the feminist's court that any mention of intersex relationship without giving lip-service to how oppressed/awesome women are is considered misogyny. I can advise a female friend about not trusting a husband surrounded by hot promiscuous women daily with "he's a man", but I cannot advise a male friend about not trusting a wife surrounded by hot men daily with "she's a woman". Whenever I take an approach to understanding men, I must either include women to counterbalance if results are positive in favour of men ("men are more good in X but that's because cultural patriarchy/women are better in Y") or be negative in my results ("men are shitty in X"). Whenever I take an approach to understanding women, I must either include men to counterbalance if the result is negative ("women are worse in X but that's because cultural patriarchy/men are shitty in Y") or be positive in my results ("women are swell in Y"). When tiptoing about intersex relationship in this manner, and trying to give advice while abiding by these insane rules, the advice will be cluttered with inane bullshit serving to mask some things that paint women/feminism in not so great light. What RP does is throw this entire bullshit out of the window, as well as any silly -ism that supports this worldview (hello feminism) because it understands that a system that supports this kind of thing is also a system that is inherently not fair to men. Why play the game where the rules state that any time you score, the opposite side gets the same amount of points, but not vice-versa? TRP seems insane but that's because you're looking at it through coo-coo lenses of coo-coo ideology. And do remember, feminism and more specifically gender "equal in favour of women because of reasons" is a relatively new phenomenon (50ish years, maybe 100), one that only springs when civilization is stable and prospering, not when civilization needs stability and prosperity.

Take for example, this conversation.

I mentioned that rape was a crime which is basically punished too mildly, but that women who do false rape cries are "dumb bitches" because they put innocent men into jails and negative social situations, as well as serve to point out those nasty MRA "rape apologists" right - diluting the meaning of rape till the public goes back to believing she had regret sex. I still stand on my position, and do consider women who do such a shitty act "dumb bitches", as I believe any sane person would. Instantly, I was asked to provide a comment in which I had similar hostility to men. Why do you think that was? This was a situation which could paint women (some, but folks don't make that distinction anymore) in a bad light - this must be counterbalanced with men being cast in a bad light.

Since TRP serves as a big fuck you to feminism and female "sexual revolution" by trying hard to pin point how easily to jump on CC and never in a marriage (maximize alpha fux, minimize beta bux), of course TRP is toxic. Of course it is muh soggy knee ist. TRP, by the virtue of not considering women sunshines and peaches, is muh soggy knee ist.

Now, why this phenomenon happens?

The left, gravitates towards dissolution of legal and cultural norms which would naturally build a hierarchy - starting first from legal discriminations, to trying to undo cultural discrimination (like the sexual revolution of 60s/70s). The left is constantly moving left. The right, for that matter, does not exist (as reaction died a long time ago) as a counterforce. The right which you now see is conservativism. It conserves whatever shit leftism made of prior civilization. It is stationary. The choice is either to move left, or to stand still. Naturally, things move left. And then conservatives fight to protect status quo. Today's radicals are tomorrow's conservatives. Radical feminists of 1900s were considered absorbed and part of cultural heritage during the 1950s. Radical feminists of 1950s are now considered part of cultural heritage. This can be applied to any leftist struggle, from Civil Rights movements to feminism.

And how does the left silence the right? With censorship. Left cries for free speech until it gets in power then it stops it. Hate speech is especially useful with this new generation of snowflakes who need safe spaces anywhere - pointing out shitty thing women can do to abuse the system is misogyny, pointing out racial differences in crimes is racism, pointing out the rape epidemics that usually follows Muslim immigrants is islamophobia. The conservatives, who are concerned with being called raycis and muh soggy kneeist, instead of holding ground and being equally disgusting as the left, instead castrate themselves to prove that they're not racist or hate women. The surprise? Left keeps calling them such.

Leftist ideas, ideas which are not grounded in reality, naturally take place in academia of social sciences, where ideas do not have to be reflective of the real world to work. By creating a really rush about getting a diploma, folks suddenly wanna get in. Everyone wants a diploma. But the thing is, college is hard. Especially STEM. So not everyone can do it. People then form Women's Studies, Gender Studies, Hodor Studies where you don't have to derive Poiseuille's law from Navier-Stokes equation, but complain about Patrarchy and evil white racism for not providing noble oppressed brown-kin with everything they want. Since nobody can do anything with a degree in feminism, but teach feminism, the bubble goes on and on. Suddenly, there's a market of dumb, but trying hard to be intellectual upper white class (this means MONEY) boys and girls. What does the free market do? Provide!

So now you've got the self perpetuating radicalization bubble made possible by academia and media, and nothing to counterbalance this horde, since all criticisms of it are pretty much silenced to the best case possible.

But it oh so sometimes happens that multicultural gender equal utopia is not that utopian, and pretty much impossible. Folks who point out that marriage, patriarchal class institution, suddenly became (thanks feminism!) a shackle for men who now have to settle for used women past their prime and can easily rob them of their life's work in one instance (as opposed to through progressive taxes which go into subsidizing birth control for women and single moms and massive immigrant sanctuaries) are enemies of the regime. They're the heretics, the kulaks, the racist misogynist neckbeards. Suddenly, the guy who says "hey doods, race is not actually a social construct, and is a real biological concept which holds scientific merit" is now the same as the KKK klansmen who "pulls the trigger when he sees a nigger", so to speak. So of course TRP is toxic and misogynist. It would be toxic and miso-goy-nist even if it dropped all the hostility to women (a hostility which is, mind you, well placed) just by virtue of noticing feminism fail, and doing something other to it.

fizolof · 2015-01-01T22:19:38+00:00

There are reasons, but these aren't the right reasons in my opinion.

Most redditors are American college kids who have been mentally castrated by feminism. They think objectifying women is wrong. They think you can't generalize women, because everybody is a special snowflake. They think that if you say "women like assholes, not nice guys" you're an entitled bitter neckbeard. Any negative judgement of women is not permitted. They think hating the whole population (misanthropy) is okay, but hating half of it (misogyny) is wrong.

I remeber an album which showcased "horrible" things said by terpers. Most of them weren't even bad. One of the post was a joke saying that a red pill woman is "June Cleaver without a gag reflex". Is that what passes as misogyny nowadays? Men can't express their preferences, can't have fantasies? Can men even be heterosexual anymore?

The reaction to "the sexodus" is amusing, feminists say that men who don't see value in dating women are "misogynists". Because now you're required to appreciate women, even if they don't bring anything into your life? Maybe women should try to be valuable instead of demanding that men see value in them?

There's definitely misogyny and wrong generalizations on TRP, but TRP is so popular because it's one of the few places on reddit where men can talk like men and that just goes with the territory. I still take TRP over the "just treat women like human beings" feel good bullshit and moral outrage that you see everywhere else on reddit.

[deleted] · 2015-01-02T23:50:58+00:00

They think its really awful because they aren't used to seeing men speaking about women as women freely speak about men, its down to their own sexism and pedestalization of women basically.

deepfriedcocaine · 2015-01-01T21:55:58+00:00

No, we don't care. Everyone else is wrong

sh1v · 2015-01-01T21:55:04+00:00

Most of reddit? Reddit gets 174 million unique visitors a month, show me the anti TRP post with 87 million upvotes.

Maybe you meant the majority of really vocal, critical reddit users hell bent on shaming anyone who diverges from the feminist approved narrative on sex and relationships.

meehan666 · 2015-01-01T23:43:41+00:00

So? The world outside reddit has the same opinion about redditors in general.

MilkyPuff · 2015-01-02T21:37:55+00:00

There is a lot of content on TRP that is just ridiculous. You have to remember that it's comprised of people aged 14-50 with different motivations, levels of education, levels of satisfaction in their loves, etc. It's a highly heterogeneous population, and does not operate as a hivemind.

If people are linked to particularly bad threads on The Red Pill, it's easy to walk away with the impression that it's a shit pit. Some examples that I've seen would include (summarized):

Everyone is a faggot except me

You should fuck people's wives

I woke my girlfriend up with unwanted anal sex to assert my dominance

Gay people are disgusting degenerates

All women are slaves to their pussies

It goes on. There is a ton of garbage written by people with no formal training in the very nebulous science of sociology and the result is that a lot of the 'truths' that are 'revealed' are basically just armchair philosophy and speculation.

That said, there is the occasional undeniable truth that is discussed on the forum and some of it ought to be taken seriously. Some examples:

Family and divorce court massively favor women

Simply being a 'nice' but otherwise bland man will not get you laid

Feminism is frequently dishonest in its rhetoric

Rape and domestic violence are much more gender-neutral issues than as commonly perceived

Are the generalizations unfair? Not really. Most of the active RP population are self-aggrandizing or otherwise annoying to some degree. But that doesn't mean there isn't some good content.

LifterofThings · 2015-01-02T05:11:45+00:00

Let's break this shiz down:

Do you members of TRP believe that most of Reddit thinks that TRP is toxic, misogynist and misleading for no reason? Or is there a reasonable, logical and practical explanation for this phenomenon?

Hilariously, I think that TRP does a better job of painting a picture of women as human beings than feminism ever has (despite being "the radical notion that women are adults!") The reality is that women have certain foibles as a part of being human-- they're selfish, they're manipulative, they're careless about the feelings of others. No big deal.

The trouble is that the feminist culture we live in has painted this image of women as victims, and it just isn't nice to salt that victimhood wound by pointing out the inalienable fact that women, as a group, exhibit certain behaviors that do not serve our culturally agreed-upon moral virtues (selflessness, honesty, empathy, etc)-- this gives people a sad. The sad unfortunately seems to result in the end of any discussion in favor of defensive allegations of "WOMEN HATERS!" and "MISOGYNY!"

So, yeah. The fact that having one's foibles called to attention results in a defensive response should come as a shock to nobody. As for whether these allegations "against" women are fair or accurate... weeeeeell, that's a debate we'll never be able to have in earnest until folks can knock it off with the "misogynyyyyyy!" boo hoo.

Are the members of TRP at fault for this? If not who is?

Yeah, I guess. In as much as a person is at fault for any resistance he/she experiences as a response to his/her unpopular opinions. For the mostpart, those who've really accepted TRP don't really care what "most of Reddit" thinks-- they've chosen to live their truth (god that's a cheesy fuckin expression), even if it costs them some popularity points. At any time, if TRP isn't working for them, they're certainly welcome to try out a new set of ideas-- we don't excommunicate anyone.

And are these generalizations unfair?

TRP is largely unconcerned with what's fair-- a large part of swallowing the pill is recognizing that life was never meant to be fair, and never will be, and how to best serve your purpose/ideology with this in mind.

If you're asking whether they're accurate, then I'd have to say it depends on your definitions of "toxic" and "misogynist", which are both pretty nebulous terms. If generalizations about certain unflattering qualities that are exhibited by a group of people constitutes a "toxic" or "misogynistic" attitude, sure, it's accurate.

jacks1000 · 2015-01-02T00:51:36+00:00

"Most of reddit" is like, the very last people that anyone should care about.

Basically - NO - "most of reddit" probably doesn't even know about TheRedPill. In fact, the terms "toxic" and "misogynist" - as used by people like you - are essentially meaningless, just used by radical ideologues to complain about men that are saying something not worshipful to women.

In fact, ideological, left-wing, looney-tunes feminists say that masculinity itself is "toxic" - which is rather ironic, coming from women involved in a political movement dedicated to hating men.

cxj · 2015-01-02T01:38:18+00:00

People think its mysoginistic because trp takes concepts that would be controversial on their own and states them in the harshest, meanest, most provocative language possible. This ends up attracting tons of posters with no real interest in self improvement or seduction who just want to talk shit anonymously. Supposedly they are "venting" but it looks more like stewing in negativity to me.

Archwinger · 2015-01-02T02:56:04+00:00

Hi. I am Archwinger. I am an endorsed contributor at r/TheRedPill.

All women everywhere are stupid cunts, with no exceptions.

This is representative of the entire manosphere. We all hate women because they're stupid and inferior.

Please cite this throughout reddit.

Florist_Gump · 2015-01-02T00:38:27+00:00

Its pretty much the same sort of disagreement this atheist has with religion. A vast majority of the world's population believes me to not only be wrong but everything from merely immoral to actively Evil with a cap-E.

They're wrong, and I can live with their believing me to be the wrong one. My philosophy isn't determined by Majority Rule.

AFormidableContender · 2015-01-02T06:08:44+00:00

Most people think TRP is toxic, and misogynistic because most people think reality is toxic and misogynistic, and racist, and classist, and everything else. People are averse to realistic thinking, and most people, find the nature of sex, even their own sexual nature offensive by definition, including women. In fact, given what TRP has to say about women I do not blame women for finding TRP toxic, or misogynistic. The issue, however, is that reality really doesn't give a fuck what you think it is.

This effect is exacerbated by the monopoly on public thought and social conscious Feminist ideals currently hav as the reality of nature, women, and men, even those not related to TRP, run in direct opposition to most Feminist theory.

That's not to say TRP is 100% correct. I believe TRP because it's the most realistic, practical and best explained demonstration of socio-sexual behavior and thought that I've yet encountered, and if someone can produce a better one, I'm all ears, but regardless, people tend not to like ideas that go against the grain. Everyone told Galileo he was an asshole too.

VarsitySlutTeamCpt · 2015-01-02T09:04:29+00:00

I think the West is overly sensitive towards women.

lionhart280 · 2015-01-03T23:26:10+00:00

I think its a product of societies ever increasing ability to interact with others.

Let me lay this out here:

As humans gather into groups, we start gaining a group voice. Subreddits are great examples of this. Naturally over time groups of people develop cultures. There are taboos, and as a group they define morals within their society that adhere to what they as a collective group believe in. Anyone who disagrees are either ostracised or leave the group of their own volition, or change their morals to better 'fit in'.

This is basic sociology. So, TRP is the product of the fact that we, as humans, have started to form the biggest culture of all human history, one that covers literally the entire world. Internet culture, tinder, facebook, twitter, tumblr, 4chan, reddit... the list goes on and on, we as a species are becoming obsessed with interconnectivity and communications. Which makes sense, humans are a very very communication based species, its our primary source of survival.

Which is cool and all, but you get an awkward bit of a result from this. As you aggregate cultures of large sizes, it begins to subdivide into sub cultures, generally all the subcultures have general vague agreed upon morals and rules and laws, but they might have different interpretations of them.

But, here's the awkward part, most of the time subcultures all go by the same name. Feminism is a good example. Now if the culture is so massive the subcultures are so big they are the size of a normal culture, most people will begin coining names for them... feminazi is a great example.

Or another example is 'neckbeard', a term coined for a subculture of the 'nerd' culture... so on and so forth.

So, basically, TRP is a big culture, and its approaching the point of fragmenting into multiple subcultures, hell it probably already is. Feminism is going through this process so fast it hurts, to the point counter cultures are developing in response to this.

TRP is simply a counter culture to some facets of sub cultures within the feminism culture. It is so large and complex, like any other culture, its impossible to label it as anything in particular, since like every culture, it is diverse and varied in people.

wazzup987 · 2015-01-02T03:46:42+00:00

I think its a little unfair, but not by much. I think it would help if they softened their tone but it not not my community and not my problem. I have no problem picking up up chicks, i would really rather be in an ltr but what eves. my point is that i am probably what terpers would call 'blue pill'. But blue pill is just as stupid as RP. Also it it pretty feminist in nature, so fuck that.

Comments