Male Submission: inherently destructive to the male?

pyr666 · 2014-11-10T17:11:58+00:00

sane adults pursue relationships of mutual consent, whatever form that takes.

we live in a culture that generally pushes male dominance, so it's unsurprising that that's what most people fall into, but there's nothing inherently gendered about the roles themselves.

what is important is that everyone is getting what they want, within reason. there are people who don't want to have to make the big decisions. who would prefer to have someone else in control of their lives. it's uncommon and discouraged in western society, but yes it's definitely a thing.

the ideal is for people like that to find someone willing to take to take the dominant role without being abusive. which also exists and isn't TRP

the mistake TRP insists on making is thinking it's even remotely acceptable to try and force other people into that role. or that it should be decided by the thing twixt your nethers.

oxyderces · 2014-11-10T16:38:57+00:00

Male sexual submission is an aberration of the sexual order,

Articulate how it is even possible to be a "aberration of the sexual order."

Half of men have submissive fantasies. Memes in patriarchal cultures that support the idea of woman as ruler of the household (if not politics) and praising uxoriousness are common. This is not an aberration.

A male sub is subverting his natural role as a strong provider and protector to his woman,

Males have hardly played this role uniformly throughout history. Many cultures have encouraged it for various reasons.

This results in a lack of true sexual desire on the part of a woman

As a woman who is maddeningly into hot submissive men, as in it arouses me, this is just so ridiculous it's impossible to address.

Ughh, I realize you're working within TRP framework but this is a perfect illustration of why it's entirely nonsense to me.

YeahaNSFWaccount · 2014-11-10T16:24:34+00:00

I've heard pretty much this same argument (sans TRP buzzwords) from someone who was a self-proclaimed "male supremacist" before.

The evidence doesn't seem to support it though. While a lot of women enjoy being sexually submissive, many of those same women enjoy being dominant as well (so they're "switches"). There was a post on PPD about this recently with a study to back it up.

And of course there's the simple fact that dominance and submission in its explicit form is often only sexual in relationships, and what people enjoy sexually is often very different to what they enjoy outside of a sexual context. For example the CEO who goes to a dominatrix is very much dominant in day to day life but enjoys being dominated sexually. This is a lot more common than you'd think.

powerkick · 2014-11-10T18:18:23+00:00

Male sexual submission...completely incompatible with TRP concepts.

That there is the key. TRP's pseudoscience then says exactly what the rest of that paragraph says, which is basically fearmongering. "If you aren't dominant in bed, you aren't attractive in bed." Also, there's probably some homophobia mixed in with that baseless assertion. "Why would a guy want to be DOMINATED, that's so FAGGY." I can hear it now.

Obviously, you can be a commanding officer in the military and submissive in bed and seriously nobody could be the wiser if you never talk about it. Nothing changes about the relationship with regards to the kind of sex you're having, unless you WANT it to be so tied in with the relationship dynamics itself (I.e. 24/7 bdsm relationship)

This results in a lack of true sexual desire on the part of a woman...

Fucking source? There is no proof in any medium or any case that results in "AWALT therefore they disrespect men if they show submissive tendencies in the bedroom.

MissPearl · 2014-11-10T16:31:01+00:00

Male submission is generally a sexual fetish and has no bearing on a guy's social role in relation to the opposite sex. It's perfectly possible to have this kink and be unpleasantly entitled and pushy. For example one of the complaints from "lifestyle" female dominants dealing with come ons from submissive men who frequent professionals (sex workers) is that they're not typically interested in power exchange on her terms, but expect to be serviced according to his fantasy.

There are thus a lot of problems in nailing down just what msub is, because it tends to be a big grab bag of fetishes including many things that are only inherently submissive in the context of a person's belief around the act. For example strapon sex is a porn standard, but considerably less easy or pleasurable than a blow job- the former being physically awkward and having no nerve endings on your dildo, while the latter involves coaxing a man to put his most sensitive bits next to your sharpest ones.

Although there are some who see their interest in msub as a matter of female supremacy, these are by far the minority- for the most part kinky folk are pretty damn banal in their daily lives. Male submission fantasies seem pretty evenly scattered through the population.

Expressions of kink, purely looking at power exchange, range from wanting to be looked after through to wanting to find the most dominant woman in the room and claim her devotion to them. This can mean anything from going all floppy and helpless to acting like a poorly chained force of nature.

A casual survey of romance archetypes shows that male vulnerability and monomaniacal devotion are a common ingredient in these fantasy stories- not suggesting that many thematic elements found in m-sub are going to be rejected. A classic example of this sort of fictional msub scenario popular with women might be the romance in Jane Eyre.

Of course it's worth making a distinction between female dominants and male submissives, since any given pair from each category won't automatically be compatible, and as with all things, your average female dominant is to her porn archetype what your average woman is to her vanilla porn counterpoint- but discussions on the subject tend to be short on discussions of the so called lifestyle.

Old_Pine_Tree · 2014-11-10T17:13:19+00:00

Sexual dimorphism suggests this at a general level, but when reduced to individuals will not always hold. There is the added distinction that descriptive qualities are not necessarily interpretive or prescriptive ones. Think of this as the 'is-ought' problem applied to the sexual marketplace.

What TRP asserts that if you are dominant or seek dominance in keeping with this generalization, then apply steps A, B, C, etc. What's often lost in this prescription is that these steps can be applied non-sexually to other men, or can be applied by dominant women to submissive men.

buartha · 2014-11-10T17:23:43+00:00

I agree with the people have already pointed that it's not wise to deal in absolutes when it comes to sexual behaviour, and that submissive behaviour sexually doesn't automatically mean that you're a doormat outside the bedroom (I'm a sub, and I'm definitely not,) and just want to add being open about sexual submissiveness as a man can actually be a lot more attractive than trying to hide it and fail.

To put it in a non-sexual context, most of us have seen how uncomfortable someone who isn't a natural to leadership makes the people around them when they either don't know what they're doing, or try to overcompensate by exerting a power that they don't command over the people they're leading.

It's not that different if you're in a relationship with someone and they know you well, as they'll be able to tell if you're uncomfortable with the role you're performing, and chances are that your lack of satisfaction will begin to bleed into life outside the bedroom eventually. Uncertainty like that is going to lead to more discontent on your partner's side than if you'd just been upfront in the first place and told them what you wanted.

A part of being the sort of person who commands respect, either from your partner or the world at large, is being able to pursue and get what you want. Owning submissive sexual desires and expressing them to your partner in a confident and assertive manner is more attractive than someone who tries to emulate sexually dominant behaviour without feeling it and fails.

taiboworks · 2014-11-10T15:42:35+00:00

Relevant question along the lines of this theme - If you are a red pill man with a lady and you get mugged, what do you do?

[deleted] · 2014-11-10T17:03:28+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	Male Submission: inherently destructive to the male?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	0
Comments	124
Date	November 10, 2014 3:39 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/2lv6sz/male_submission_inherently_destructive_to_the_male/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/male-submission-inherently-destructive-to-the-male.284395 https://theredarchive.com/post/284395

Comments