Red Pillers, what are some concepts from TRP that you reject?

emize · 2014-09-16T08:11:29+00:00

The mens rights whiners.

The whole unicorn partner thing

That it's okay to think that you will not be damaged by sleeping around with multiple chicks and can still hold down a relationship easily.

The constant OMG this shitty woman did this!

The guys who are in the so called anger stage.... get over it. The person you should be angry at is yourself!

emize · 2014-09-16T07:36:33+00:00

Not really against the concept but a few things do annoy me:

1) The whole 'anger stage' nonsense. Yes it sucks get over it.

2) When the pill metaphor gets tortured. "I tried to swallow the pill but ended up choking." Well then fuck off till you do. Don't want to deal with your insecurities and indecisiveness.

3) The 'men's right' bent that seems to growing. The whole idea of Red Pill is take advantage of the situation not bitch about how there is a situation in the first place.

4) The small (but growing) group who seem more interested in being noticed then improving themselves. "Look at the increased sub numbers! Look at what this group is saying about us!" Its not the majority yet but its more noticeable then before.

exit_sandman · 2014-09-16T08:59:18+00:00

AWALT: Not really. During my lifetime I got to know quite a number of women and though I have to say that most if not all of them display at least one trait or another from the list of less desirable things RP attributes to females in general, by no means does the majority conform to that image overall. However, I've also got to know more than enough women who actually are conforming to it and run into new ones on a regular basis, which is reason enough for me to be familiar with the RP assessment of modern women.
80:20 rule: Follows from my personal take on AWALT. 80% of women might swoon over the top 20% of men, but this doesn't mean that they are indiscriminate about having sex with them if sex is all they can get out of it. There are a bunch who will, but again they're most probably a minority - while I know some girls who weren't partnered up and many who were pretty much constantly in relationships, the partying, ONS-collecting girl was more the exception than the rule.
the assumption that women are intentionally malicious when they're acting in a way that's detrimental to the wellbeing of the men in her life: Here a very old nugget of wisdom applies: "don't attribute to malice which can be attributed to naivety". So, when a woman gives dating advice that is tantamount to "become a doormat nice guy", she doesn't do so because she wants to prevent the guy from having success with women so she can rope him in once she approaches the wall, but rather because she's used to giving feel-good advice and/or doesn't really fathom how useless her suggestions actually are. A woman who friendzones a guy and tries to keep him in her orbit doesn't do so because she wants to make sure she can exploit him as good as possible, but because she's probably genuinely convinced that he is as happy with that arrangement as she is. If necessary she'll blind out anything that indicates otherwise. (have to add that this is a contested field, though - one side insinuates malice, the other accuses the hamster; I'm one of the latter)
the almost irrational value attributed to youth: Yeah, I get it, 20 year old girls are hot, women actually do look best between their late teens and mid-twenties. Yeah, it also has its biological perks pairing up with a woman as soon as she's all grown up if it's all about pumping out children non-stop and having her all the years when she's at her hottest. However, when choosing a permanent partner I don't think 20 year olds are such a good idea when you're already over 30. Of course there may be exceptions, but girls that are barely adults and attractive quite frankly have a tendency to be annoying, and even if they aren't, they still have some years of personal development ahead of them, and who knows how they'll turn out then.
the almost irrational value attributed to virginity: a consequence of my rejection of the obsession with age. A 20 year old virgin may be somewhat endearing because it's at least an indicator that she has certain standards she's unwilling to compromise. A 25 year old (or older) on the other hand, who is more within my target demographic, is worrying because it's an indicator that her standards may be too high and also that she's probably not that keen on having sex (otherwise she would at least have gotten that off her chest), which is another drawback. It's less the lack of experience that would be offputting, and more the underlying issues that are implied by late-term virgins who are from a culture that doesn't condemn premarital sex; however, many TRPers treat that issue as if there wasn't a middle ground between passionately CC-riding wall-hitting beta provider-ensnaring alpha widows on the one side and pure virginal unicorns on the other.

cxj · 2014-09-16T12:51:47+00:00

Mostly I just hate all the negativity. That is not true trp tone imo. Real redpill is coldly logical and dispassionate, ie the rational male. Real redpill = lord tywin, most redpill commenters = Cersei. Cersei thinks shes tywin because she is ruthless, but in reality has no idea what shes doing.

AWALT. I get why they have this policy in place, to ward off concern trolls or whatever, but srsly, NAWALT. Only the Sith seal in absolutes.

Women have no loyalty. I get my redpill views from personal experience, and my personal experience was that when one ex falsely accused me, over ten girls were willing to testify they were in a sexual relationship and I was not violent. About half of them straight up said, "yeah tbh you are a piece of shit, but you aren't that bad. You do not deserve this." And made really annoying arrangements to get work off to drive hours to my trial. Some of these girls I ended with on very bad terms, and they still showed up. There were some girls that were totally platonic, but willing to testify we were in a sexual relationship to add credibility to my character.

[deleted] · 2014-09-16T08:04:15+00:00

I see TRP as a massive river of filth when I first saw it, the entire concept of "don't give a shit about women and they'll come pouring in" seems kind of exaggerated. My hand got filthy with the shit river trying to find the gems at the bottom, past all of the "women are like dogs" and "this is so unfair"/"how do i pass this particular shit test" to the stuff that could apply to me and still sleep at night. I learned that all of the things I thought would be a nice thing to do for a person and in return get respect and friendship from that person, was all bull. TRP told me to cut redbull and mcdonalds and hit the gym(I never gained weight so at first I thought this was overkill), taught me to respect and love myself not for who I am, but what I could be if I put the work in. TRP indirectly boosted my confidence and so talking to women was a lot easier, having nicer cloths and being well groomed helped also. I guess anyone could say "that wasn't TRP there are tonnes of self help subreddits that say exactly this", yeah, but TRP doesn't sugarcoat anything, it lets you know you're alone in your struggle and you only get out what you put in.

So I guess in response to the question, I reject anything that's about women in a getin/getoff/getout context, i.e. clubbing/tinder which is about 90% of that sub

UsernameThe4th · 2014-09-16T10:28:27+00:00

I think the sub has a lot going for it, as far as 3 things go: 1) The call for self-improvement. 2) Teaching how to be more manipulative. 3) Teaching how not to be a doormat.

But I can't stand the hatred of women, the cheating, the lingo, the over-generalization of female behaviors, the bragging about conquests.

So the concept has a lot going for it, but I can't be a "Redpiller"

sh1v · 2014-09-16T10:32:44+00:00

That women can't love the same way men do... they can, it's just rarer, and often to the benefit of cads, abusive men and other unsavory types. Just as "betas" heap loads of one-sided affection on women who don't deserve it.

That AWALT. Unicorns exist. Some simply hail from a less entitled, feminized society. But beyond that, some women's brains aren't wired the ways other women's are. It's just, these high quality women tend to fall out of the dating market rapidly.

I also reject a lot of the vitriol at women. At the end of the day if you actually can't stand women, just go full MGTOW. Awareness of how women differ from men, and what women are capable of at their worst, should be tempered by a certain appreciation. Not on the pedestalizing level that feminists insist on, but you should be able to know, enjoy, and respect a good woman when you see one.

Oh, and also, a lot of what TRP developed as sexual strategy actually applies to people generally. People of both genders hamster, for instance. And leadership, strength of will, valuing one's self and one's opinions, makes one attractive to women but also gains the respect and admiration of other men.

hungoverseal · 2014-09-16T13:57:44+00:00

The biggest thing for me is the lack of humour. They boast about how they don't hold back with language and put the truth straight out there, no messing about. They call it real masculine communication, but it's not really. Most websites I know with high male demographics are hilarious. Sure the talk is very straight and few punches get pulled, but there's humour there. Redpill just has a weird angry vibe to it and when people do find something funny, it's along the lines of 'hahahaha look at this dumb bitch hitting the wall'.

This isn't really a concept of TRP, more a problem with the community itself.

niczar · 2014-09-16T12:08:28+00:00

The right wing / libertarian bent. I'm more Chomsky than Ayn Rand.

GODZILLAFLAMETHROWER · 2014-09-16T08:34:53+00:00

I'm against:

allowing anger phase men vent. It's been stated that TRP is the place they can go to to let it all out and not get censored but fuck me does it get annoying sometimes. But then again that's what it takes to maintain the unfiltered atmosphere which I also like so it's a bit of a bargain. I just want less threads about "woman did x, isnt she a fokin bitch!" and people coming in saying "aye she a fokin bitch". If it's not some crazy story about how a man got fucked by the legal system, I don't care. I don't care some bitch cheated on her BF. Yeah women do that, so what.
That you should shame sluts. Don't get me wrong, I would never LTR with a slut and I still believe that you can't turn a ho into a housewife, but I don't think there's anything wrong with living a promiscuous lifestyle as a woman, just like I don't think there's anything wrong with someone choosing to eat 5000 kcal a day or use heroine, it's their body and they choose what to do with it even if it ruins her for later. I honestly prefer spending time with sluts, they are usually way more fun and adventurous and better in bed. So I don't really understand all the hate on them other than that you can't LTR them even though they're hot and that's a bit annoying.But just don't get attached to them and you good!
The political right-leaning atmosphere, maybe it's because I come from a country that has pretty massive social benefits for students like me, but reading something like "liberalism is not for men" it makes me cringe a little. Yeah I think modern feminists are fucking retarded and we should prevent them from affecting politics at all costs , but that doesn't mean I should be completely on the right either. Feminism has kinda hijacked the political left so supporting it is out of question for me, but when that right-wing shit goes to something like banning gay marriage I'm out. There's a way to be rational and support some liberal ideas at the same time without being a feminist or a PC-police or someone who wants to allow senseless immigration.
Cheating, I don't think you should ever have an affair. The majority of TRP is with me on this but there's still many people who advocate for it as the ultimate dread game option. I don't think there's anything wrong with dread game but cheating is 100% out of the question for me. If you agree to something, stick by it. Honor is masculine. Showing that you have other options is masculine. Knowing what you're worth and not settling for a partner that doesn't give you what you want is masculine. Straight up affair is not masculine, it's just a shitty thing to do.

These kinda irk me but TRP has too much useful content and advice that you don't find anywhere else for me to really care. I'm sure everyone disagrees with some aspects of TRP.

niczar · 2014-09-16T08:33:50+00:00

Men have honor! Men don't rationalize!

Bullshit. Most men are no better than we are demanded to be, and we have rarely been more superfluous than now. Maaaybe we're less driven to trade up in partners, but even there I'm not sure.

Villaintine · 2014-09-16T08:07:28+00:00

Without going there and reading through the sidebar again I can't think of anything off the top of my head that I flat out disagree with, but keep in mind that I don't take TRP as gospel. They are simply concepts about behaviors which are more prominent in ~~some women than others~~ most women.

There are cringe-worthy things discussed such as the ravishment fiascoes and content I see as being more extreme (a few over there really thrive on shock value) and entirely unhelpful to me. I also don't care for the posts with rant or MRA flairs. They are generally tantamount to bitching and should have their own subreddit.

I will say that I think if TRP ideals are kept in mind as 100% applicable to every woman to the full degree (with the worst of them taken concretely) that it would be very toxic to any man seeking a LTR.

TheScamr · 2014-09-16T10:53:47+00:00

The most mature 18 year olds in the room... I certainly do see some 50 or even 60 year old "mature 18 year old" women out there but TRP has to see that there are more "mature 18 year old" men out there than they want to admit.

We_Are_Legion · 2014-09-16T23:36:10+00:00

1) Women have no honour. Honour is a male abstract. Besides ability to devote yourself to a cause, I do not accept this.

2) Bro-ism. Or any and every push for TRP to be a fucking movement. I hate whining. but fortunately, I get to shut this down with extreme prejudice.

Pointless_Endeavors · 2014-09-17T03:59:44+00:00

Not sure how RP it is since I've only ever seen it on reddit, but every couple months or so I see a post or comment about how the downfall of western civilization is inevitable and the main cause is feminism. That's the point that makes me question if the posters upvoting this are all there in the head. Not that these post get very many upvotes, but still the idea of feminism bringing about the downfall of civilization is laughable.

rufusjonz · 2014-09-16T18:40:50+00:00

I don't like a lot of the anger and don't agree with some of the generalizations about women, divorce, false rape accusations, slut shaming, etc.

That's why I don't claim to be a card-carrying redpiller, as far as the sub goes. I'm personally more into the parts of it that are self-improvement, dating/seduction/relationship discussion, being a man in the modern PC world, discussion of male/female roles, discussion of what it means to be an alpha male, etc.

nomdplume · 2014-09-16T20:10:23+00:00

I actually appreciate a lot of the more sophisticated ideas found in the various Red Pill postings/links, as I look back on my life and see that I was following them unknowingly for a long time. So I see a lot of value there.

But a lot of the wisdom is buried under male solipsism, victimization, and confirmation bias.

I'll throw a couple of things out there:

As other's have said, the "women are at their highest SMV when they turn 18" is a limited view.

I started dating my wife (seven years younger than me) when she was 18. I hadn't been with anyone that young since I was 18 myself, and I have to say, her body was incredible. You could bounce a quarter off of everything. Good stuff!

But, her hottest phase started when she turned 29. Seriously. She had come into her own. She learned to be sexy. She got in the best shape of her life (before, it was just youth that had her looking good), she got her hair/makeup/fashion/style all working in tandem, she was comfortable with her sexuality and, even better, was confident in it. She rocked it. She was never so fucking hot.

I have several friends who I have known from their early-twenties to their early-thirties, and at least half of them are more attractive now.

I will grant that women have a hard time maintaining that level of attractiveness past their late thirties, but so do men...

I would say the focus on "young girls are the hottest" reflects the TRP demographic more than reality. I remember, when in college, thinking of 30-year old women as ooooolllld, lol...

RedPill115 · 2014-09-16T21:02:42+00:00

The idea that Beta behavior is inherently negative and anti-sexy.

Beta behavior in real life seems to be more like a woman who knits - neither sexy nor anti-sexy. The problem is that guys think it's supposed to be sexy, and it's not - but it's not inherently a turnoff either. It's when you're more beta than alpha, thinking that beta is going to be a turnon with an accompanying alpha, when you start to have a problem.

Early game decried being "beta", but then talked a lot about being alpha while also "building comfort"...which is kinda like saying still having some beta.

nomdplume · 2014-09-16T20:22:14+00:00

I actually agree with a lot of the AWALT premises. I really do think AWALT.

However, I don't agree that all women will always be like that. They all have that in them, that potential, but they can also recognize the costs of indulging in such behavior and commit themselves to something greater.

It actually took a while for me to acknowledge AWALT, mostly because I feel like my wife is NAWALT.

However, what I came to recognize and appreciate is that my wife is AWALT. She is. She just doesn't act on it.

It's not that it isn't there for her (believe me, I've seen it just enough to know she is no different inside than any of the more blatant AWALT examples), but she continually chooses NAWALT.

Coming to see that she is an AWALT who refuses to be subjugated by her base nature gives me much more respect, appreciation, love and compassion for her than I would have if I just assumed she was NAWALT...

DevilishRogue · 2014-09-16T20:58:33+00:00

Not against any concepts, but some practices aren't to my tastes, specifically bro language and asshole behavior.

I completely disagree with Red Pillers here who've cited the anger phase as a negative and think it is important for individuals to get that out of their system.

Akodo · 2014-09-16T07:24:32+00:00

Heh. ^{^{^{^{^{^{^{^{Pleasedon'tbanmeImsorryifthisiswrong}}}}}}}}

Title	Red Pillers, what are some concepts from TRP that you reject?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	13
Comments	94
Date	September 16, 2014 5:59 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/2gjbdc/red_pillers_what_are_some_concepts_from_trp_that/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/red-pillers-what-are-some-concepts-from-trp-that.284854 https://theredarchive.com/post/284854

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