Do you accept that other people will differ?

DorianCairne · 2014-01-19T20:43:27+00:00

I've always been inclined to think that any semi-intelligent person acknowledges that there are people out there who don't agree with them or don't fit their theories. The radicals - radicals of any standpoint, that is - simply deal with it by shrieking loud enough to drown out any dissenters until they forget they're there.

Shadow_Nirvana · 2014-01-22T10:11:16+00:00

The problem is, who are the outliers?

For example, in the manosphere, girls who have nice personalities are outliers. Girls who are non-promiscuous are outliers. Girls who don't take advantage of a man when he makes himself vulnerable are outliers. These are all bullshit generalizations as you can guess.

For example, in the hostility against submissive women thread, a guy who is having trouble with his wife said this:

I'm glad you're an awesome woman. Most aren't.

My response was:

Yeah who are you to make such a judgement exactly? Way to combine the topic and your own problems with your own wife.

We take our cues and views of life from what has happened to us or happened around us, even though they may not be the representative of a general view. Sort of a confirmation bias. This is why circlejerks and mental masturbations are kind of non-productive, it mudies our perspective and we go from things we assume to things we think will happen. (from a false premise to a false conclusion)

For example and I hope to make this into another thread when I have more time and I find a way to move it past the paywall for you guys to read, the Alpha Fucks, Beta Bucks strategy. Not only do nearly %80 of women don't pursue casual sex, but most people date a type(dominant people date other dominant people, insecure attachment styles go for each other etc) and people ,when desperate, settle the most on personality (ie; choosing uncaring and inconsiderate partners ) but they also did settle for people they didn't find necessarily attractive, so there's that.

Alpha Fux, Beta Bux Myth, Part 1

Alpha Fux, Beta Bux Myth, Part 2

Describing something as an "outlier" is a pretty big thing and it shouldn't be done willy nilly.

sh1v · 2014-01-19T20:46:21+00:00

Here's what I think:

TRP acknowledges that generalizations are useful tools for understanding and adapting to the world around you. So for example, one TRP tenet is that women are as a group hypergamous... sure, some women might have their hypergamy in check while some few might manifest no hypergamous traits whatsoever. But what matters for us is that from a strategic standpoint, it makes sense to go about one's life as if women as a group ARE hypergamous. Outliers certainly do exist, but from a strategic and realistic standpoint they are largely irrelevant.

I have seen many criticisms of TRP centered around this issue. The mere act of acknowledging that there are common female traits, which differ from common male traits, puts many people on the defensive. To go a step further and decide to base your behavior and mentality on a thorough awareness of these differences, is a sure way to gain the ire of feminists. Why exactly it makes them angry, I'm not sure, as mostly they focus on undermining or ridiculing the 'science' of TRP while ignoring that their own evidence for patriarchy, nurture over nature, etc. have as little, or less hard science to back it, due to the vary nature of the subject matter being analyzed. We cannot know why people do what they do, we can only know what they do, and (if red pill) react accordingly.

So... long story short. The issue isn't whether outliers exist. The disagreement is on what their existence implies for human interaction. TRP thinks generalizations are still useful, feminism detests them. But frankly, it doesn't matter, because TRP is about what works and we've found that generalizing about women... works. There are many reports of TRP helping men change their lives and relationships for the better, few reports of the converse. The wags and trolls over at TBP often voice their assumption that Redpillers are lying, deluded or secretly miserable... which, while amusing, is ludicrous.

roe_ · 2014-01-19T21:52:45+00:00

I'm a Freedom Feminist. Freedom Feminism (suggested by Christina Hoff Sommers) is an attempt to re-synthesize conservative and progressive feminism. Here are some of it's assertions:

-Affirms for women what it affirms for everyone: dignity, fairness and legal equality of the sexes -Opposes efforts to impose on women (or men) stereotypical social roles, yet recognizes that men and women will typically employ their equal freedoms in distinctive ways -Asserts that efforts to obliterate gender roles can be just as intolerant as efforts to maintain them -Establishes that differences between the sexes, under conditions of freedom, can be a sign of social well-being. Freedom Feminism is at peace, not at war, with abiding human aspiration.

reginaldtato · 2014-01-19T21:05:55+00:00

Everyone chooses their own values but that doesn't give them an excuse to cop out of explaining themselves to others.

jmikolash · 2014-01-19T21:14:57+00:00

In a sexual context, everyone exists on a spectrum of masculinity and femininity. Men can be feminine, and women masculine. There is much variance in behavior depending on where you fall in this scale.

Culture and upbringing heavily influence our sexuality, but not completely. The same goes with Biology and hormonal health.

I believe that an effeminate man can be satisfied being dominated by a masculine female or homosexual. This does not change the basic dynamics of sexual relationships though: there is a powerful partner, and a submissive partner.

The sex that holds the power can change in outliers, but in general, regular spectrum males are dissatisfied when they supplicate to a female (or anyone else) who has been given power over them by a faulty culture.

The more masculine a person is, the more they will resent being dominated by another. High testosterone individuals will not tolerate this condition; they will rebel until they are satisfied. A man with lower testosterone is in a confusing place though. He knows that being dominated feels wrong to him, but has very little drive to do anything about it.

Furthermore, modern culture has not educated him to properly know how to correct his situation. Try to take a leadership position as a young person at home: punishment, shaming, forced supplication. Try to be dominant at school: punishment, shaming, forced supplication. The same goes at the work place, or in public. To step outside the role of beta supplication in our culture is increasingly rare due to the social constructs that are forced on modern men.

This is why Redpill thinking is gaining momentum as a cultural movement. Dissatisfied males can feel that there is something wrong with their lives, and TRP is offering a plausible explanation as to why. Don't forget that there are females who follow RP thinking as well, so cultural outliers also exist in both directions.

In short, there are dominators and supplicators, their sex does not matter. If you feel compelled towards being dominant, culture is not designed for you to have an easy time, although human nature still responds favorably to this type of person once they achieve a respectable level of power. We live in a supplicators paradise, and it is like this by design. Starve males of their natural desires, suppress all their attempts at satisfaction, and quietly nod while they throw money around in confusion trying to fill that void within themselves.

Only the luck ones make it out, most die never fully being men.

Czacha · 2014-01-21T23:42:39+00:00

All people are different, pretty much non have same goals, values and priorities. Some you have an overlap with others you don't but that's life.

Live your life and let other live theirs.

If one goes into a path where you want others to be just like you, then you got a problem.

[deleted] · 2014-01-24T05:06:16+00:00

Btw- you should just do a little research to get the answer to your second question. We've already seen how a traditional society deals with women who choose a career in hard science over children.

myfriendscantknow · 2014-01-20T08:38:28+00:00

radfems - do you believe that women exist who of their own free will will to submit to their male partner and make his happiness their priority?

I don't think I've ever seen a dumblr style radfem here or in TBP, and I've certainly never seen the argument that no woman wans to be in a traditional relationship, or no woman should.

Canned_Wine199 · 2014-01-19T22:28:49+00:00

Aren't outliers by their nature rare? An outlier doesn't mean the general trend is invalid. I think we should recognize they're outliers and proceed accordingly.

LeaneGenova · 2014-01-19T23:40:02+00:00

I have thought a lot about this in the past and have come to the conclusion that democracy depends on the freedom of individuals and that an individual can not therefore surrender their free will to someone else. People are allowed to live however they want. They can be housewives if they want (I might not respect it but I accept it) and they can play whatever games they want in the bedroom. But on electon day, they can not go an vote for what their husband wants them to vote for. If that is the case you have killed democracy. Of course, no democracy is perfect. But so far I believe it's the most humane and functional political system we have tried. So that is my limit for what I am willing to accept. I do not accept any proclamations of surrendering all decision making or all important decision making to someone else.

As for the questions about a feminized society I can't answer because I don't think feminism strives for a feminized society. We strive for a society where a man who exhibits taditionally female characteristics will be just as accepted as a woman who exhibits traditionally male characteristics. In the end, there should just be people of all diffent kinds, doing what they want to do withtouht having to suffer prejudice or abuse. At it's core it's a politics of tolerance, at least the feminisms I'm interested in and agree with.

[deleted] · 2014-01-24T05:02:15+00:00

I've got no problem with disagreeing with someone. I can respect differences of opinion when the differences are based on knowledge and not a lack thereof.

Sexism? Racism? Er... Sorry. Generalizations based on observations? I've got no patience for that. It's primitive, it's bogus.

[deleted] · 2014-01-19T21:39:49+00:00

It takes more than just the self for society to function well. When something detrimental to an individual spreads beyond the fringe, society as a whole is affected.

Title	Do you accept that other people will differ?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	3
Comments	83
Date	January 19, 2014 7:23 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1vlzk1/do_you_accept_that_other_people_will_differ/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-you-accept-that-other-people-will-differ.286344 https://theredarchive.com/post/286344

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