How many of you think women were never oppressed?

2019-11-12T23:07:09+00:00

I assert that women were never EXCLUSIVELY oppressed.

People on reddit always make seem like women had it rough and men just walked about with their male privilege card as if it was some get out of jail card or something.

Men on the bottom have probably always had it the worse because they weren't even biologically valuable. There were nothing more than human farming/mining equipment.

At least women on the bottom had the trump card of being able to have children which gave them some intrinsic value but men on the bottom have always been fucked from birth unless they work a thousand times harder than everyone else.

Mr_Smoogs · 2019-11-12T21:33:32+00:00

Both men and women were extraordinarily oppressed. Women gained the right to vote immediately following all men getting the right to vote.

It’s all relative. Both men and women barely had any “freedoms” or “rights” until relatively recently. Governments have always been authoritarian and overreaching without any say from the common man/woman.

Most men and women lived cooperatively just to survive. Both genders were indeed treated horribly.

You’re falling for some apex fallacy like all men were wealthy landowners who wielded power and had any semblance of voting rights or say in government. The vast majority were dirt poor and had the same peasant rights as the dirt poor female peasants, which is to say none.

KillerLlamar · 2019-11-12T22:18:12+00:00

Of course men and women were treated horribly, and oftentimes men were treated drastically worse. Want to hear a really messed up story? I'm 50% native american. My ancestors (a mixed tribe from southern georgia) were captured en masse by Southern generals during the civil war. It was traditionally the men who were taken, although frequently the women were raped but left on the homestead. The men on the other hand were used for something different. In order to prevent Northern ships from taking the Georgia coastline, southern generals forced the natives to wade into neck high water in the middle of winter and install metal pylons so the ships wouldn't be able to dock. The death rate was about 80-90% I believe, and most of the survivors (if you could call them that) were decrepit for life.

That type of thing was common, and probably less barbaric treatment compared to the 50 years before that, the 100 years before that, and the 1000 years before that. With the rise of technology the need to oppress (which was almost always for some economic outcome) decreased drastically. It's far easier to make a billion dollars with a technology product than enslaving children and forcing them to make bricks. Humans never became inherently more moral- technology made immorality inefficient.

Zippo-Cat · 2019-11-13T07:02:13+00:00

So you're not even willing to go for the compromise that BOTH genders were "treated horribly"? Yikes, that's a big Oof from me sweaty, let's unpack this.

Yes, through most of history women were not oppressed and you can fight me about it. You only think they were because:

You judge the past by your modern western upbringing, which is built around narcissism and extreme levels of unwarranted self-importance
You mistake protection, and overprotection, for oppression
You believe a whole lot of feminist bullshit which is half lies(i.e. "women were property") and half logical fallacies(i.e. "there was no law that specifically stated a husband can't beat their wife, therefore all husbands were beating all their wives all the time")

skystar86 · 2019-11-12T23:59:51+00:00

As a Brit, historical oppression seems more on economic lines than on gender.

That is not to say women were not oppressed, but rather the higher your social caste the better off you were. Also as a Brit, thinking globally, race is a good marker as well.

What grinds is if someone says "men have ruled for centuries unfairly", when my ancestors might have been working the mines or running away from their home towns to escape religious genocide. It's the hoofing it all under one statement, it lacks nuance and seems hyperbolic.

It sometimes seems like these people ignore wealth and class as a source of privilege, and in turn that seems like it's because they have a privileged background themselves. They tend to come off as frivolous.

MrHerbSherman · 2019-11-13T00:27:44+00:00

You have set forth two very different claims

Most men and most women have been oppressed since the dawn of civilization.
Women were never oppressed.

If you believe 1 then you cannot logically believe 2

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-TheGreasyPole- · 2019-11-12T21:28:06+00:00

Hi OP,

Sorry for the wait, I've approved. I've re-flaired it Q4RP because while an RP related questions are on-topic for us, we generally have a "no feminism discussion unless related to relationships" rule. I think discussing RPs views on female history is well within our topic though flaired this way.

erman88 · 2019-11-12T22:22:14+00:00

Well to think that men haven't been horrifically oppressed over the years is pretty ignorant. Slave labour, dieing in wars, prison camps, dieing down coal/gold mines.

Obviously women have been subject to most of those things as well and have been oppressed and relatively recently didn't have the right to vote but if you weighed up which gender had the worst of it historically, you could reasonably argue it has been men.

escapethesolarsystem · 2019-11-13T01:41:11+00:00

Both men and women were oppressed throughout most of history. However, there's no evidence to support and I certainly don't believe the feminist propaganda lie that women were "more oppressed" in any significant way than men.

However, many women, especially western feminists, are solipsistic, entitled, spoiled little brats with the maturity of teenagers, so they have an intentional blind spot any oppression that men have suffered (unless it's to laugh about how "funny" it was) and hype up the most minor oppression women suffered to epic, world-ending proportions; so the lie that "women were oppressed" persists and probably always will.

Plopolok · 2019-11-13T02:10:09+00:00

Comparing who had it worse doesn't make much sense in my opinion, and anyway doesn't matter because it's the past. So I have some disdain for feminists who focus too much on historical patriarchal oppression with a one-sided view. But I don't think the feminist movement was pointless: it was a necessary evolution, which as usual mostly boils down to the consequences of technical progress. Female contraception is a fascinating example: feminists managed to make it acceptable in people's minds just at the same time when scientists managed to devise a pill that worked reliably without too much risk. So, what happened is that in the late 19th century, technological progress reached a stage where the traditional gender arrangement had to start a radical evolution, and it did. Many courageous women played a role in this, I'm rather inclined to praise them. I wouldn't want to be stuck today with the traditional 19th century arrangement, it just wouldn't make sense.

2019-11-13T06:55:59+00:00

Read this book the manipulated man, written by a woman. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Manipulated_Man

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Eastuss · 2019-11-13T09:29:28+00:00

It's not that women weren't oppressed, it's that everyone was oppressed.

wazzoz99 · 2019-11-13T12:04:07+00:00

I think both men and women were oppressed by the natural or imposed circumstances they found themselves in. I don’t have an absolutist view of oppressor-oppressed like so many feminists or delusional MGTOWers. Throughout history, both pleb men and women had it shitty.

DubsPackage · 2019-11-13T19:45:25+00:00

The idea that women have been oppressed comes from the idea that every individual must have a life experience that is exactly interachangeable, and if they don't or have different life experiences then they start competing in the Oppression Olympics.

This is a relatively new idea, "individualism."

Societies in the past were more "collectivist" because that's what they needed to survive, maybe you needed to give up your life to help your tribe survive, so that's what people did. It's like letting your wife and kids get the last lifeboat on the Titanic, you're willingly giving up your life to help your bloodline (your kids) survive.

Some animals, like preying mantises, actually consume their mates. It is theorized that the male preying mantis willingly allows himself to be killed and consumed by a female, to give her nutrients so that the eggs survive.

Under the "collectivist" idea/paradigm, women have never been oppressed.

Under the "individualist" paradigm that every individual must have the exact same life experiences, then yes, women have been oppressed.

As I say, the individualist paradigm is relatively new/uproven and depends very heavily on technologies/conditions that prevented it from being possible in the past.

The idea that men want to oppress their own mothers and daughters is pure horseshit, and the only way you can believe that is thru projection, in other words you think men want to oppress you because that's what YOU would do if you were in the same position, you're operating in bad faith, either because you're been hurt or don't have the social/emotional intelligence to consider any interests past your own nose.

Niki_Biryani · 2019-11-12T21:54:55+00:00

Both men and women were oppressed, just that men were always oppressed more than women. Just look at things now, women still claim to be oppressed when they have things many times better than men.

werubim · 2019-11-12T22:34:26+00:00

We tell women they were "oppressed" in order to pander to their feelings. It gives them a feeling of self-rightiousness and an excuse to act like a c**t.

Ant1matter8 · 2019-11-13T00:11:26+00:00

It would be pretty unrealistic to think women were never oppressed as both men and women get opressed, literally, EVERYONE gets oppressed.

It's just women are more likely to bitch and whine about it instead of adapting.

AnarchoNAP · 2019-11-12T21:35:00+00:00

Depends on where you are. In the US women were never oppressed. At least not moreso than anyone else.

Even “first wave” feminism was feminism. Women couldn’t vote. We couldn’t be drafted either. And... now “we” are involved in all these “humanitarian” conflicts.

Title	How many of you think women were never oppressed?
Author	SamiraMifsud
Upvotes	8
Comments	106
Date	November 12, 2019 3:51 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/dvbsew/how_many_of_you_think_women_were_never_oppressed/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/how-many-of-you-think-women-were-never-oppressed.294998 https://theredarchive.com/post/294998

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