Household Finances

OsmiumZulu · 2019-07-28T23:02:11+00:00

Mod note: I am going to give you a pass on rule 2 because you mentioned your OYS here but next time this sort of lazy low effort wankery is going to result in a deleted post. Don’t expect others to give you their time if you can’t find the time to at least link to your own stats.

SkimTheDross · 2019-07-28T22:08:04+00:00

You’re angry and your getting ready to go Rambo.

Your unattractive and low value right now. It’ll blow up in your hands like an M80.

Easy does it. Take it in steps.

Boil the frog slow.

SteelSharpensSteel · 2019-07-28T23:42:03+00:00

Children with dynamite...

I'd advise you not to make any decisions while in the grip of anger. And build your frame, son. Your lack of control shows you have none.

OsmiumZulu · 2019-07-28T22:57:35+00:00

Slow down there Rambo.

Does finding out you’re little more than a walking ATM for your wife burn like a case of hemorrhoids after eating habanero salsa? You bet it does. Allow yourself to feel that burn, but do not act from an emotional state.

Her behavior sucks, but it isn’t surprising, she is following her biological imperatives. You aren’t attractive to her. That’s a bummer but odds are good that as you begin to OYS and improve yourself this will change. Not as fast as you’d want, and certainly not without a lot of fitness testing, but it gets better from here if you stay the course.

Acta non verba.

Don’t go on some rant about being the breadwinner and thus you are in charge of the money now. Just start being in charge of it. When you asks what you are doing calmly explain that you haven’t been as involved in the finances as you want to be and will be leading it going forward. Or whatever it is you want with this. Probably going to trigger a sh*t test so be ready to AM/AA or Fog it.

Red-Curious · 2019-07-29T16:07:20+00:00

I intend to stick with those commitments, even if it's just a smokescreen

Right. This is part of not going Rambo. A guy shouldn't read RP material and become alpha overnight. Even if he internalizes it quickly, he must still pretend to be beta until he gradually eases his way through the transition. /u/bluepillprofessor discusses this at great length in his video blog and book. Since you're still early on, don't skip those.

I couldn't spend money the way I wanted, even though I am the sole breadwinner

That was the exact trigger that led to my parents' divorce. Props for realizing this in advance.

I'm not at the top of her list, not even close. My paycheck is.

Catch up on the sidebar and you'll realize:

Men love women because men love women.
Women love men because of what men can do for them.

She will never love you the way you want to be loved. Even if you become the most attractive man in the world, she will not love you for who you are. She will love you for the fact that she can show off to all her girl friends how great of a guy she got ... among other things.

This is a reality of life that is to be embraced, not something to fight against. Don't be mad about it any more than you'd be mad at a worm for lacking the generosity to share his dirt-meal with you. No, women are not worms. But women are women, and there are boundaries over what they are mentally and emotionally capable of, just as there are boundaries over men. Women can be great at emulating authentic, masculine love, but it will only ever be to the same degree that a parrot emulates the words "I love you." It has no clue what those words actually mean; it just knows that saying them produces a good reaction and gets him a cracker.

I'm prepared to open my own bank account, move all cash out of our joint accounts, and remove her access to our family budget.

Right, because continuing with counseling is what's going to keep you from going Rambo. I can't wait to read the update after this. It'll be like the fourth of July.

I'm hoping some of you guys can shoot me some wisdom

Yes, it's a bad idea. It's going Rambo.

What's really going on here is that you got in a fight over finances and now it seems like finances are the most important thing in your marriage. You view them as the most important thing to her. You're willing to blow up your marriage over it, so it seems like the most important thing to you. But then you're going to calm down and realize there are other more important things and it won't be such a big deal.

The best way to handle the situation is to phase yourself in gradually. Start by asking your wife to see a copy of the spreadsheet she maintains to manage your budget because you want to get a snapshot of how things have been going lately - a very plain and innocuous request. You'll find she probably doesn't have a spreadsheet, which will make her feel like she's not doing her job properly without you actually saying it. So, you reply, "No worries. Can you give me an overview of our average net surplus/deficit over the last 6 months? I want to make sure we're planning for long-term savings." She's probably going to have no idea and give you a BS number about how much she usually sees in the account at random times when she checks on it. After a few more questions like that you end the conversation and thank her for the information she was able to provide and that it helps you wrap your head around some of the long-term goals you have, like retirement, vacation-planning, etc. If she asks you what those goals are, stay amorphous. "I haven't decided anything concrete in my head. I needed some information before I could figure out what reasonable goals are in the first place."

About 2 weeks later you start trickling in some information about your long-term goals. "I'm thinking I want to retire by the age of 60 instead of 70. What would it take to do that?" She's going to have no clue. You're going to end up seeing a financial planner. You'll be the one to set up that meeting. You're going to ask her lots of questions about your financial status before meeting with him so that you know how to run the conversation. You're going to tell her, "Just so you know, they're going to try to sell us all kinds of thing that I don't want to buy. I'd rather handle the talking so you don't have to deal with the pressure of telling him no. And if we think it's a good idea, you and I can talk about it afterward and just call him back. Don't worry, we can still consider all the options he gives us, I just don't want to be pressured into making the decisions in front of him, so let me handle the conversation." Most girls hate that kind of pressure anyway, so she'll acquiesce.

After the financial planning meeting you come up with a long-term plan using some of the information the adviser gave you, and then tell your wife that the conversation really motivated you and now you want to be more hands-on with the finances and budgeting.

You get the idea from there. But see how gradual that process is, and how it puts the pivot points on external sources so it doesn't look like you're just turning into a control freak? This is how you slide into things rather than going Rambo.

But you better be really stinkin' good with handling the money once you take over, otherwise it's a bad idea to take over the finances in the first place. Be better than she was. Period.

g_e_m_anscombe · 2019-07-29T03:20:30+00:00

It may feel that you are only a paycheck to her, but that may feel overemphasized because you are having conflict over it. Sometimes when we feel dissatisfied with something, it has a way of taking over our brain. We forget the things that we do like and harp on what is the problem. This is why we must be patient and forgiving - not because there isn’t something that needs fixing but because we can blow things out of proportion.

12 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13 Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. 15 Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful.

Col 3:12-15

CarelessBowler5 · 2019-07-29T14:12:31+00:00

Update/Field Report

To satisfy u/OsmiumZulu's note, here are my stats:

5'8", 144#, 28 yo, wife 31, married ~4 years, together 5. 2yo son, 10 mo daughter. RP Date June 18, 2019

Dead Lift 145#, Overhead Press 75#, Bench 105#, Squat 145# (been doing whole body routine I kind of made up, starting 3/5/1 for beginners this week)

I did not move any money around. I did not send any emails. Last night was much more interesting than that.

Things were off from the get-go. From my initial post, you can all see that I was angry. My wife was appropriately defensive and harpy (read: disrespectful). She asked why I took so long coming home from the gym. Instead of going into all the things above, I STFU'd. This pissed her off. Understandably, sure. It's understandably confusing and hard to trust someone who won't account for hours of their day.

She started slighting and disrespecting me. The words were not direct, but the attitude certainly was. Our conflict slowly escalated over the course of an hour until:

I bought some stuff for the gym off of Amazon (belt, wrist straps, and a proper gym bag to replace the old POS I've been using). I said out loud, "I need to buy [the things]." She asked, in that disrespectful tone, "What do you expect me to say? Are you asking me?" I replied that I was telling her what I intended to do.

A few minutes later, we were seated around the table for dinner. The 2yo was his usual happy self. I said grace and then fed the 10mo so my wife could down her food. The disrespect kept escalating. She brought up her usual comment at this point: "I can't have sex with a man I can't trust."

And I lost it. No frame. Boiled over. Lost it:

"Trust? I stood in front of our church and entrusted you with my sexuality for the rest of my life. For the past 3.5 years, that seems to be the biggest mistake I have ever made!"

It got worse. I said fuck in front of my son. I told her if her attitude didn't change I was going to head out for the evening. She said, "No, you do not get to go out and leave me with the kids. I'm going out and you can stay here."

I downed my food. Grabbed some shoes and my keys. And I left.

At this point, two important conversations fell into my lap. Conversations I was not intending on having.

We were scheduled for a call that evening with a buddy of mine who's also a financial counselor. His whole ministry/business is centered on helping couples learn how to do finances well together (establishing a Captain/FO or Headship/Submission relationship). I shot him a message that I had left the house, didn't intend to go back home, and I didn't know if he still wanted to do the call.
A friend from an old small group returned a text I had sent a number of days ago, basically just asking, "When do you wanna meet up?" I asked if my wife had told his wife to tell him to text me. He said that no he just happened to have felt like responding. I asked if he had time for a phone call.

That phone call was the single best thing that could have happened to me at that moment. I went to a local park and just opened up to my buddy about everything (felt like NMMNG-type conversation).

Me: "My wife was giving me disrespect, and I totally lost it."

Him: "I've been there."

Me: "We were in the middle of dinner, and I just left."

Him: "I've done that."

He listened. I ranted/vented. Talking gave me so much clarity. He didn't interrupt to give me advice. He just listened, encouraged, listened some more. Finally, and hour later, he gave some advice and direction:

Go home.
Apologize to your wife for leaving the house tonight.
Let her know that you have deep wounds.
Drop your expectations. For sex. For everything.

And I did. I got home in time to put the 2yo to bed. I sat across from my wife. Eye-to-eye, and just said, "I'm sorry I left tonight (and the other times I've done that sort of thing). I had a really good talk with [buddy's name]. I realize that I have wounds that go real deep that I've been ignoring for a long time." I know TRP/MRP talk about not being emotional in front of your wife, but I lost it. I'm convinced the Holy Spirit drilled into my conscience in ways he never has before, and I was all emotions.

She also apologized, "I'm sorry for disrespecting you, especially in front of the children." She grabbed a tissue box for the both of us.

No, we didn't make out or escalate to make-up sex. The emotions settled, and we sat down to have that phone call with my buddy-turned-financial-advisor.

Also a God-ordained conversation if there was one (I know, fellow reformers, they're all 'ordained,' you know what I mean).

That phone call was supposed to last an hour.

It lasted three.

I have nothing to hide and nothing left to lose in our marriage. We discussed finances, trust, respect, our dead bedroom, our parenting, our premarital sex (yeah, that's something we're dealing with, too), and a whole host of issues.

My buddy's got a system he's been implementing for years, and it hinges on this question: Are you willing to become a different kind of person than you are today?

So, he presented to my wife: "Would you like to become a wife who is submissive, respectful, proud of her husband. The kind of wife who brags about him to all of her friends because of how great he is. That you trust him. That you have great, frequent sexual intimacy, etc."

As he described this woman, her eyes lit up. She said out loud that she wanted to be all of those things and more. The exact kind of ideal wife I had ever dreamed of signed up for.

And I lost it. Again. I was overcome. To hear my wife saying out loud that she desired to be respectful, submissive, following my leadership, and sexually involved. I couldn't speak for a little while. For so many years, I have been using covert contracts and other methods to manipulate her into becoming those things. It turns out, she honestly wants to be them. And I'm the idiot captain putting hurdle after hurdle in her way.

No, we did not have sex after that phone call, but there was a sense of unity and focus on fixing our marriage that I have never seen in our four years together.

I am a Captain who never learned how to sail. I have been making calculated guesses when I'm not good at math. I have nothing left to lose. Nothing left to hide. There is nothing (well, almost nothing) I won't try to turn this marriage around.

I have not brought up fight club (TRP/MRP/RPC). I don't intend to. I know it won't do any good. But it's time to enlist the help I need.

Thank you guys for your comments. The stuff I've gotten from this sub have been much more helpful than TRP/MRP.

Here's a quick tag for all the folks who've left me helpful comments, so they might chime in on this update: u/SkimTheDross u/verticalquandry u/Rifleshoot u/OsmiumZulu u/chuchus_mangionus u/SteelSharpensStee u/Over60_FireTempered3 u/g_e_m_anscombe u/TheChristianAlpha

Rifleshoot · 2019-07-28T22:31:43+00:00

The correct is not “I’m cutting you off”, it’s “I’m taking control.” And maybe you aren’t ready yet to do that, maybe you are. You need to be dependable with the finances. And you have to make sure that she knows that she will be happy and secure with you controlling it. You don’t even have to make it implicitly clear that you are taking control, just slowly insert yourself into that role, little by little. There’s a lot of anger in your post, and I feel that you are about to make an unwise and impulsive decision, rather than one that is in her and your best interests. You are called to be as to her as Christ is to the church. That means that you are meant to be self sacrificing for her and put her well being at the same priority as your own. If your decision isn’t made with that in mind, it probably isn’t the right one, at least right now.

Let your anger go away first. You aren’t angry at her, you are angry at yourself for letting it get this way.

chuckus_mangionus · 2019-07-28T22:56:58+00:00

Like others have said, you're angry and emotional.

The more emotional you are, the less rational you are.

When it comes to any kind of financial decision, you want to be as rational as possible.

Over60_FireTempered3 · 2019-07-29T01:39:44+00:00

But I can't shake the feeling that it's a bad idea - a really, really bad idea.

You're probably right about being wrong.

Your situation is not hopeless, you just let it go too far, and, you're blaming your wife for your own abdication.

Since you screwed it up, only you can unscrew it.

Control your anger - at yourself, and, try not to drop any atomic bombs.

TheChristianAlpha · 2019-07-28T22:52:26+00:00

u/SkimTheDross 👌. To elaborate a little further, improve yourself Spiritually, mentally/emotionally, PHYSICALLY, socially, ect to the point where taking over the finances and having that convo isn't going to come across as going Rambo, but more like natural byproduct of you becoming the leader you should have always been.

lololasaurus · 2019-07-29T13:56:41+00:00

You got here by being not being attractive, and by being unattractive.

This is a very unattractive decision (there is another way that is attractive, but you're not ready yet, clearly).

So if you want to keep doing more of the same, you can bet you'll get to keep being her beta bux via a court order instead of voluntarily.

Or if you want to be a red pill man, you'll be attractive, and avoid being unattractive.

helaughsinhidden · 2019-07-29T14:41:50+00:00

But I can't shake the feeling that it's a bad idea - a really, really bad idea.

I see what you are trying to do, but it's passive-aggressive to yank control like that. What you are desiring is not control, but her SUBMISSION. Control and manipulation with your assets as leverage feels good for the moment like keying a car that cut you off, but doesn't bring long term satisfaction. Work your MAP and slowly and methodically climb the ladders of DREAD until things click.

Willow-girl · 2019-07-29T12:52:36+00:00

Have you looked over the finances and found that your wife is blowing money or making bad investments? If so, an intervention might be in order.

If not, why are you trying to seize control, other than to punish her?

It looks like the only thing of value that you provide to your wife at present is money. And now you want to take the money away. Why? So she'll "kill the puppy"? Spare you the trouble? You don't have to be the bad guy?

If you want to end things, just end them. In my experience, a clean break without a lot of rancor makes for a friendly divorce without tens of thousands of dollars squandered on lawyers.

But, you do you.

Title	Household Finances
Author	CarelessBowler5
Upvotes	10
Comments	18
Date	July 28, 2019 9:32 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RPChristians
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RPChristians/comments/cj1r31/household_finances/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RPChristians/household-finances.301181 https://theredarchive.com/post/301181

Comments