Law 38 explains why a lot of you here are actually struggling.

PantsonFire1234 · 2017-11-06T01:48:42+00:00

Great point.

For all the advice about being outcome independent and self validating etc etc, it misses one key point.

We are social, herd animals to a large extent. It's difficult to free yourself from this mentality, but possible. But the problem is that it's impossible for you to change the herd.

You may be able to live without the herd, but the flipside of this is that the herd will then expel you.

Social validation cannot come from within. It's not something you can meditate enough to get.

It doesn't matter how cool or alpha you are, if you walk into a party and everyone ignores you, your a loser. If you don't get this, then maybe your not as socially aware as you think you are.

Spez

To expand on this.

Say you want to be your ultimate Alpha dude free of the Man and run your own business because fuck society.

Well society fucks you back, what are you going to do when a mob mentality means no-one wants to buy your products or work for you? How's your business going to go then?

Maybe you got an online product that is literally just you? What happens when an SJW mob pressures paypal to stop accepting your payments.

No problem you say, I'll get a patreon.

Surprise surprise patreon has a clause about hate speech and your shit out of luck.

You can fuck society as much as you want, but it's always going to be able to fuck you back harder.

We all exist within a society, act according to what you think will improve your position, but you can't leave society.

jimjackjoe · 2017-11-06T05:00:58+00:00

aw, fuck it. life's too short to act like a normal faggot all the time. imagine having an instagram account showing you doing 'lots of cool stuff' because you think it will attract women. you've gone down a lame-assed road that won't even bring you good results with women. imagine being funny and interesting and weird but repressing it all because you think girls won't like it or normal people won't like it. i can't stress enough that women like originals. as longs as said originals are not, like, autistic or just "off." like, you have to be a lucid thinker who makes sense if you want to pull of being 'different.' and as long as you indicate to a woman that you're conscious of the 'correct' social protcols, and are not obvlivious to them, then you can break said protocols as much as you want if you are funny or interesting about it.

then again, trying to be different if you're naturally totally normal won't work either. like if you've ever gone through a phase of caring about androids being better than iphones or whatever, as one other commenter mentioned, then your probably totally screwed if you ever attempt to take the 'unique' route. won't work for you--don't bother.

but god, i've picked up so so so so so many women over the years, and have had women develop so many infatuations with me, because i'm weird and say things other people won't say.

but yeah, obvi there are times to restrain yourself too. like if a bunch of aquantance-dudes, who you need to keep in the good graces of for business reasons or whatever reason, are all talking and complaining about married life, you can't be like, "welp, i've circumvented all that bullshit and love my life! woooooooo!" you have to be like, "damn, i envy all of you. at least you won't die alone. don't take marriage for granted. personally, i can't wait until i find 'the one'". or if your chick is like, 'booo hooo, my cat died.' you can't be like, 'whatever, it's a dumb, boring cat that didn't even love you. it only seemed like it loved you because you fed it and petted it every day.' you have to be like, 'i'm sorry. there there!'

also, all this being said, i've met many many women who also HATED my style. but, you know, fuck em. and if you actually spend enough time around them, and let them understand your weirdness is actually a result of uncommon mental lucidity, then they'll start to come around.

anyway, just some random thoughts. i don't think i'm teaching OP anything or anything like that. 85% chance he already knows everything i've said. and obviously, there's truth in what OP says as well. all about that nuance, my boys. gotta do whatever works for you.

oh, and one other thing. 'style' is exceptionally important. if you have natural style, it's much easier to get away with doing things your own way.

MattyAnon · 2017-11-06T04:06:52+00:00

Law 38: Think as you like but behave like others.

Which conflicts with:

Law 6: Court attention at all cost
Law 17: Keep others in suspended terror: cultivate an air of unpredictability
Law 27: Play on people’s need to believe to create a cultlike following
Law 28: Enter action with boldness
Law 37: Create compelling spectacles
Law 39: Stir up waters to catch fish
Law 45: Preach the need for change, but never reform too much at once
Law 46: Never appear too perfect

All of which involve behaving differently to others.

The basic concept makes sense.... but you can't spend your life going along with the flow and being ordinary and expecting to accomplish anything.

Brickles09 · 2017-11-06T05:05:41+00:00

We don't get women because we put them on a pedestal. I've only killed my oneitis after I searched the cutest girls from my high school on facebook and saw how they are now. Without exception, they are all ugly now. When you start seeing (and treating) women for what they actually are, a piece of meat that will expire in 10 years, THEY will put you on a pedestal. Don't conform, be original, don't be that selfie idiot on social media.

I_Need_More_Space_ · 2017-11-06T04:55:15+00:00

OP seems to be clinging to one Law and pontificating on it. In actual power plays, it's important to know how to implement various laws. So in the business setting, yes, you should be more on your toes and ready to implement various strategies to help get you get where you want to be.

But, if you're just out in a social setting, for pete's sake, know how to put bitches in their place! They may say that you are a jerk or asshole, but that's great. Its much better than them saying that, "You're a nice guy." LOL

[deleted] · 2017-11-06T05:26:40+00:00

There is nothing about you or your lifestyle they find interesting or enviable enough! You're just not fun, nothing about you or your lifestyle gives women that rush to want to get with you.

This hits home for me. I've been lonely lately, need some real friends. And I realized that I stay home and "work on myself" far too much and just need to get out of the house and experience the world alone. There's no one to join me, and what would they want to join?

CounterEarth · 2017-11-06T02:17:40+00:00

This point is fundamental to understanding charisma. In order to connect with and influence others, you need to show you understand and relate to them. Disarm people with your smile, intuitive understanding of social conventions, and eloquence, all while asserting yourself and boldly demonstrating your individuality. The two are far from mutually exclusive.

Social proof is advantageous for almost any pursuit you involve yourself in. Don't handicap yourself by being an outcast, even if that image attracts some women.

AvengerSentinel · 2017-11-06T10:38:10+00:00

I agree. If guys are looking to nail plenty of chicks, they should have a bustling social life, do tons of approaches etc.

However, guys here should know that pussy isn't the end-all, be-all. If you feel you're wasting time/money/energy chasing women, or you find your interactions with them to be vapid, you shouldn't have any reservations about temporarily opting out of the Sexual Marketplace. Maybe it's easy for me to say this because I've screwed dozens of women already (this is way less than others I know) but nowadays, I rarely think of women. I've been in Monk Mode the past few years and will get back to dating when my SMV is exponentially higher than it is now.

magnificent18 · 2017-11-06T03:21:06+00:00

This is a great post! Just to add to OP, just because you follow TRP doesn’t mean you have to ignore people in social interaction. Having TRP knowledge actually allows you to swim in social settings knowing what and what not to do. Having that extra knowledge gives you an advantage/power over everyone and allows you to be alpha when it matters the most (take lead and knowing how to have fun). Less than 1% really understand women and social psychology, use that to your advantage.

The fact someone avoids people is because they think they are special/different or haven’t gotten over the true nature of females and can’t accept the reality. Some might think “people/Women are x,y,z then what is the point of being serious with them?”

Well nothing in this life is forever and stop judging. Have fun while you can. Everything will one day go away. Think of each opportunity to have fun and only fun. And sex will come as the bi product. The more you start enjoying the moment and practice letting go once the moment is over, the better. You only live one life so do everything possible.

The only thing you should be better at than someone is knowing how to have more fun. No one will ever hate you for that 😏

GunnarX · 2017-11-06T05:23:19+00:00

I can't argue with most of what you stated here. Personally, I don't find it worth the effort taking the time to prestige my social media account(s). I also usually choose to NOT add my plates/FWBs to my facebook. Creates more 'mystery' with as little effort as possible.

[deleted] · 2017-11-06T13:18:17+00:00

look at our hero Patrice O'Neil. The guy was a comic genius, but his 'fuck the man' attitude kept his career at 10% of his potential. He would straight up tell movie executives to fuck off. He would blow off SPIKE LEE when he was trying to put him in all his movies because he wouldnt commit to a 2 month shoot. He died young because he refused to take his medication because 'fuck the man'. If he would have stayed in line even 40% he would have been much more successful and likely alive. I wouldnt say 'do what everyone else does' because most men are average low T pussies, do what successful people do. As Guy Ritchie said "dont hate the game, play the game because your in it mate"

trpcounsel · 2017-11-06T14:17:57+00:00

This is a horribly cancerous post and should be removed. Social media is the single greatest contributor to the cultural and societal rot the West has been experiencing for the last decade plus. This post screams "Plug me back in! I just want my penthouse apartment and steaks every night!" Who gives a fuck what women and the beta cucks think about the pictures you take of yourself.

Edit: If you are dependent on your social media game for status/women, much of the information you should have learned from this sub has gone right over your head.

THEDICKDEALER · 2017-11-06T04:57:03+00:00

I know this one is definitely a problem for me, mostly because of how I was raised. I was raised, quite simply, to tell the truth. I think that my parents did their best, but that the world in which they grew up was a fundamentally different one which rewarded different virtues. If I ever have a son I will do my best to help him understand from an early age that there are certain people in his in-group that he should be truthful and straightforward to, but that he must be very careful to decide who these people are and that he has no obligation to anyone else.

It's honestly almost as if to succeed in America today you have to raise your son as if he's going to be part of a royal family or something and he's going to be playing power politics for his life.

Rock2live1 · 2017-11-06T08:59:29+00:00

I would rather be honest and true to myself and be 65% successful with women than fake it all up and pander to shit i dont believe in just to be 85-90% successful with women. Being authentic and true to my person is far more important than getting into random womens vaginas. Its all about your confidence in yourself and what you believe in rather than your belief itself.

myaccountforIRLstuff · 2017-11-06T07:04:54+00:00

I don't know. Despite what rule 38 says, I'll never go along with an SJW for example.

[deleted] · 2017-11-06T07:50:50+00:00

I know a couple of guys who have 50k+ instagram followers and they definitely score high quality women from it. Keep in mind these are just good looking guys who use gear year round and shamelessly self-promote. Easy pickings for them really but its a pretty shallow existence and you don't need to use social media if you don't want to

Show your social skills and standing by how you act in real life. Talk to everyone you come in to contact with during your day, Be the person who brings people together and creates events and you will reap the rewards.

trplurker · 2017-11-06T14:00:20+00:00

The trouble I have is how do I even start? Meditation, lifting, reading, etc. all that shit is easy because it requires me and me alone. But as far as forming strong connections with people and building a social circle I really struggle.

I try to small talk when I can, but can't ever seem to get past that. A lot of people are very unresponsive and have their own little cliques that they don't want to venture out of what I've experienced, so I end up just walking away because they're so fucking boring.

I mean I'm in community college now, it's not like I'm still in highschool which I understood was probably the reason back then. But it's like they're fucking zombies when around strangers then I see them walk out to their little group of friends, the mask slips, and suddenly they're all animated and talkative.

Am I just targeting the wrong people? Am I not trying hard enough?

And as far as the social media thing I don't understand how I'm supposed to go from 70 followers to Chad in Shining Armor with 5000+ followers. I mean most of those guys have so many followers because they got Instagram early and while they were still popular in highschool. What do you tell people like me who literally just made an account 2 months ago simply to "catch up with the times"? I only have interesting stuff on there too. My pictures from Europe, skydiving, a mustang my dad's working on, etc.

This is all incredibly frustrating.

[deleted] · 2017-11-06T05:58:04+00:00

Pure blue pill post . You have to get a social life yes the RP isn't against that but this post screams bp pleasing the society agenda .

Crailberry · 2017-11-06T03:54:24+00:00

Fuck. How does one fix this.

Future_Alpha · 2017-11-06T03:16:21+00:00

hey man, good post.

could you suggest a way to become more conforming to present an image of a guy that is fun and 'in-touch' with society and how to be a guy women want to introduce to their friends? I have always had trouble with that and was always somewhat of an outcast even though i'm not bad looking.

HeartlessAtAFuneral · 2017-11-06T10:57:50+00:00

I wouldn't want to be with such a judgmental, vapid cunt anyway.

Euphoricentia · 2017-11-06T07:09:37+00:00

school keeps me busy to be doing that type of shit

RedPilledRoaster · 2017-11-06T15:00:25+00:00

Also, don't play yourself. You aren't a badboy archetype who goes his own way. Just fuck off with that shit and take advantage of amused mastery.

You don't have to really believe the shit you're acting.

PantsonFire1234 · 2017-11-06T17:26:11+00:00

Just here to rain down on your comment about social media accounts and a high status social life. Apart from a gross generalization that most guys here are part time lvl 100 night elfs, most guys actually have pretty identical social lives. Unless you are a rich spoiled brat, in that case your life is flying high.

Why? Because everyone has to work and every day only has 24 hours. I've always been around the popular people in both high school and college. You either are looking at it from the outside with rainbow colored glasses or you are comparing two extremes while overestimating the 'social life' you've experienced with people. Everyone has to work to earn money, needs time to rest, to exercise. Whatever you do in these 10 hours off time won't be drastically different.

For example this line.

For most younger attractive women, I am going to say that a lifestyle which showcases a lot of partying, a big social circle, and always doing cool stuff like traveling is a hit. If it can be showcased on a social media with a lot of followers and likes, it is an even bigger hit.

First, never play the women game. Unless you want to torture yourself with managing followers, making pictures etc. Unless you are living that rich kid life you are better off putting social media on the down low. Girls have these blown up Instagram accounts because 70% of their content are selfies. You post selfies? Nobody cares, people will just think you're vain and gay.

I've done the partying thing and really any guy who's serious about himself will quit the 'spend all my money 3 days in the weekend' bullshit around the time real life turns it's head. Again, women can afford to waste money on expensive drinks, bullshit parties etc. Odds are they are spending other peoples cash and going to parties is their way of expanding their market. If you're a guy and you go to a party you've utterly wasted your time if you didn't get your dick wet. Most people don't even have fun, it's an act of desperation and loneliness. So again, don't play the women game.

Finally travelling is equally destructive. It costs heaps of money, you aren't advancing your career or status in society. It's a cool experience at best, if you have some photos to show for it it might net you some likes. Woop fucking doo. Girls get away with this because for 10 short years they can pretty much do anything they want. They could stay indoors, rubbing their clit 7 days a week and they'd still be taken care off in every area by thristy AFC's.

This is why we say, do you, for you. Because say you travel to X destination because you are passionate about, it will bleed through your life and personality. Girls like a guy who's driven, passionate and goal oriented. If you fill your life with all the shit you hope that girls will like you for you'll just end up being cucked by a guy like me. Who doesn't give a fuck and runs his own playbook, having a blast. All of this hard work building up a life to get girls and you end up watching your girl get smashed by a guy who puts in zero effort. There you are, with a life you don't even enjoy. Do you want to be that guy?

Bottom line is this, whatever girls might enjoy doing. Don't follow them, do your own thing, lure them in and fuck their brains out.

swordshab · 2017-11-06T05:05:30+00:00

This is true I see these beta male trendy fags with women all the time. Im not going stoop down to their level though and pretend to be some libtard fag just to get pussy.

beginner_ · 2017-11-06T07:26:40+00:00

The reason being because so much of this sub is bitter, things like building a social life are frowned upon, social media is often attacked, and anti-social behaviors such as talking to people about your nerdy hobbies are encouraged.

Only thing I can agree with you here is that social media is attacked and that rightly so. For anyone not yet an alpha chad with high confidence and outcome independence then social media is not for you. It's a huge time waster and studies have shown makes you depressed and anxious. It seems logic to assume the psych effects directly correlate with your confidence. The lower the higher the effect. The depressed mind is like "I suck so bad all these people have a much cooler life than me and look much better". That is not gonna help any newbies here. Hence the advice to not use it. But again if you actually already are Mr. Chad, then you would not be here, you would not care about other peoples life because yours is cooler anyway and you can use social media to your advanatge. But let's be blunt: Most men also and this sub will never get that far on their TRP journey.

Building a social life is actually encouraged. Don't know were you got this point from. This can also been seen from the reading recommendations most notably "How to make friends and influence people" and same goes for learning social skills. In fact the point of having interesting hobbies (anything non-nerdy) is exactly that you have something interesting to talk about. I have never seen here anything indicating you should talk about your gaming wins to and other nerd stuff. Especially not to women. In fact this is regularly discouraged.

So I agree that men who do what you say will fail but I disagree that that behavior is encouraged here in fact is is discouraged.

Also the main point of the law is "Don't talk about fight club". Don't go around your work place talking shit about feminism.

theseeker24 · 2017-11-06T09:27:25+00:00

It’s all about mastering the art of banter.

I was this guy in my teens; “One of the boys” but anti-social, overly intense and intellectual.

I struggled to relate to people (particularly girls) who I found unbelievable facile, mentally shallow but enchantingly attractive. Although I enjoyed indulging in both drink and drugs I was never the brainless hedonist most around me seemed to be. I know the word weird was used at least once in my teens.

And I clung to all that as a source of identity. Yeah I didn’t really “get it” but was good looking, witty and “different” so better than them in some ways (worse in others).

Although not a money thing I lacked the common touch. And because I couldn’t master it self preservation and ego told me I was better for it, better than them in a sense.

Where did it get me?

A happy, successful and attractive thirty year old who’d wish he’d dropped the ego and had his twenties full of social media pics with carefree young girls in nightclubs.

And once you master the common touch (plus the rest we know; lift, idgaf, game) you wish you’d done it sooner. It really is great to flirt and feel attraction. Much better than being a deep and witty intellectual.

The common touch is essentially the art of banter. Once you master this you can hold court anywhere.

dawgsen · 2017-11-06T12:09:06+00:00

Sir, I honestly want to thank you. Because you touched upon a important peace of the puzzle for a lot of us. For me personally, it is exactly one of my last major leaks I'm working on.

Thanks

[deleted] · 2017-11-06T13:10:41+00:00

I don't find any of this necessary due to the women who are dating via dating websites. I don't have any social media accounts and can score relatively easily. I don't have a large number of friends, either. It's all about your game and how you present yourself and guide along the chase. I hate cold approaching, so I don't do it. It's so much easier online because 1) you're not actually talking to someone face to face, and 2) rejection usually only includes being ignored, which prevents awkward social interactions with women from occurring. I think that your advice is good overall, but such things are not necessary for a successful game plan.

VanRedPill · 2017-11-06T13:48:26+00:00

Great read, thanks for the post!

In my opinion, women don't just intrinsicly want to be part of your lifestyle, your cool things you do or just have a picture with you.

They want that for more social validation. They wanna show their friends and acquaintances who they hung out with and make their friends jealous of those super cool things they did.

Women want to brag to their peers who they slept with and gain that social validation.

wooksarepeople2 · 2017-11-06T14:07:15+00:00

When I read that law it totally hit me how outside of normal I can be sometimes. To easily I would talk about feminism and how I hated it and certainly did not make friends and made enemies. It's truly better to blend and just nod along with people about there ideas you don't agree with.

ShinobiKrow · 2017-11-06T15:43:54+00:00

I don't follow this "law", just like i don't follow most "laws". Not sure whether or not this hurts me or not, but i enjoy way too much to be me to make an effort to blend with others. There are certain advantages to blend, but i just don't care enough about them to sacrify my real identity. I'm considered pretty unconventional by most people, and that's usually one of the reason the girls i've fucked have listed to being attracted to me. Sometimes you just gotta accept being who you are and learning how to use that to your advantage instead of forcing yourself to be like others. People don't liking me is really not much of a problem to me. I honestly don't give a shit. I live very well with the fact that some will like, some won't, regardless of what i do. There is no way around that. But i can perfectly understand why some people might feel the need to blend in and be as loved as possible. I'm just one of those people.

dontbethatguynow · 2017-11-06T17:39:48+00:00

I've had to consciously dumb myself down when talking to some people in order to be socially effective. Alcohol works too.

WholeFoodsMale · 2017-11-06T22:31:52+00:00

Using law 38 as an excuse to never internalize the Red Pill.

HoldDatCrew · 2017-11-07T00:32:14+00:00

This is a very good point, women fucking love men who have huge social lives. I always saw it differently though, I'd rather be myself and attract women that are actually attracted to whom I am, than be someone I am not and have hundreds of women attracted to me. Putting on a facade just for some cunt is pedestalizing, and ultimately a waste of time, IMO of course. Do whatever you want, even if that includes what OP has stated, but I feel living for yourself and self-validating is healthier than group validation for a society that is falling apart.

[deleted] · 2017-11-07T04:45:33+00:00

Forsaking yourself in order to "get pussy" or social validation is the essence if 'beta'.

Most woman would MUCH rather hang out and fuck a dude who is confident, fit and slightly eccentric, than one who appears to be making edits to his personality to be 'relevant' or fit in with the cool kids.

Fuck trying to be 'those guys' with the jiving insta pages if that isn't who you are. It'll only appear as try hard and desperate.

BokehClasses · 2017-11-07T13:26:06+00:00

think as you like but behave like others

Behaving is the first step to submitting. You will subconsciously be affected without even realizing.

Your brain adopts new habits through behavior. Eventually your habits will be corrupted.

What's the solution? Honestly i don't fucking know.

[deleted] · 2017-11-07T15:59:04+00:00

I agree with your views on social media. I’m 17 and a senior in high school. I used to post on Instagram a lot more when I was 14 or 15 and two different girls asked me out when I was that age. Fast forward to today I’ve posted once in 2017 and nothing. Those posts of you doing things get you noticed. I guess I’m gonna have to start posting more again.

rushh24 · 2017-11-08T01:09:21+00:00

I personally think that caring too much about social media can actually lead to lacking of social awareness. Sure, social proof is one of the most effective ways to prove that you are socially adept, and social media is the easiest way to frame your social proof. In reality though it is staged. For example, the 300 like profile picture the chick put up last night will prove that people think shes attractive and it will help her attract male attention. But this has absolutely nothing to do with her social awareness, because when you talk to her in real life she sounds like a potato. I just think social media is overrated and unnecessary but if you use it properly and with a grounded mind it can be useful. You aren't out of touch because you opt out though.

ToSeeAndToHear · 2017-11-08T02:35:06+00:00

A lifestyle of constant partying and traveling requires you to be pretty well off. Getting that requires exactly the opposite approach unless you are extremely lucky - rich parents or your startup got bought by Google or something.

Plenty of guys get laid without being Dan Bilzerian.

Datanami · 2017-11-08T12:31:39+00:00

Which set of rules do these come from ?

riot2100 · 2017-11-15T03:33:49+00:00

This is quite a problem of mine. Another is gaining friends who have this lifestyle that attracts high value girls.

Guthix4Days · 2017-11-06T09:58:04+00:00

Social media is shit IMO because it is all fake.

You see, nothing on it is actually reflective of the actual person. They upload what they want you to see - them doing all this cool bullshit and bragging about it. Fakebook, Shitstagram, Crapchat, Twatter etc. are ALL electronic dick measuring competitions that are a major waste of time, and unless you can provide a lot of "cool" content on your page, your profile will be quickly dismissed as being "weird" or "uncool".

And besides, you don't want people (especially those of the opposite sex) to know what the hell you're up to. You're trying to distill the tension, build momentum, make the hamster spin and make her ask "moans what is mystery man up to more moaning?" All of this becomes useless if you are constantly posting on social media and texting her all those fucking annoying emojis and "how was your day????" messages.

This isn't an excuse to be anti-social, but I just think that socialising should be left for real life and not for a shitty web platform.

NitricTV · 2017-11-06T04:17:21+00:00

When I read the 48 laws a majority of them were things I’ve already dealt with and absorbed in my essence. For example I was one of those “androids better than Iphone” “this is better than that” kids for the first two years of high school. I realized there was no point of doing that because it segregated me from the people I wanted to fuck. Junior year I broke my LG G2 & bought a IPhone 6. I stopped wearing my Astro’s and got some beats. Some things you do because it makes it easier to blend in.

CloudGuide · 2017-11-06T17:20:13+00:00

Good post. Far too many autist betas are getting triggered by the fact that society matters. Alphas aren't the ultimate outsiders — they're the ultimate insiders. So many people generally, but specifically on this sub, rejoice in being an 'outsider' 'free thinker' 'unplugged' and all that bs. Look thinking for yourself is important, but being popular is even more important. Embrace being a normie. Stop being a fucking loser.

tenxs · 2017-11-06T13:46:23+00:00

IMO "The Laws of Power" is just a collection of concepts/ideas on how to gain power over others while at the same time sensitizing you for their manipulation attempts. Pick a few ways that suit you and apply them, but it's impossible to always follow all of them. Personally, I don't like #38.

Title	Law 38 explains why a lot of you here are actually struggling.
Author	beliefthistuff
Upvotes	672
Comments	138
Date	November 6, 2017 1:33 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/7b1xzq/law_38_explains_why_a_lot_of_you_here_are/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/law-38-explains-why-a-lot-of-you-here-are-actually.46963 https://theredarchive.com/post/46963

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