But What if you WANT to raise a family?

Thotwrecker · 2016-03-26T08:06:01+00:00

Until you've actually gone through enough of life to know what it is you want, how to actually UNDERSTAND AND READ women for what they are, then and only then are you ready to make an educated decision about whether or not you should take a woman on board.

Marriage is not a terrible concept historically, as it is the foundation of the nuclear family, which was beneficial to society as a whole. As well as MOST men. Historically - that is the key word. You're talking about thousands of years of patriarchal societies and the majority of masculine men... so what?

I'm talking about RIGHT NOW, about our society that is NOT a patriarchy anymore, and we're talking about men who are NOT masculine.

Now for marriage to work (I define work as "thrive" not "survive". Yeah plenty of people say they are "happily married" but if you look at it deeply, they are miserable and trapped and rationalizing), you have to be many things. You need strong frame - the type of frame that I honestly don't see 90% of the men in society being hard enough to ever have.

You need to be an upwards spiral. You need to be on a life / career trajectory where you'll be doing better every year. Many guys are not.

You need to higher SMV than her and other guys she'll be around. So to marry a 7 and keep her in line, you need to be an 8.

Most guys are not 8s. Not by a longshot.

You need to be sufficiently sexually experienced to understand how women work, and how to objectively evaluate RMV to ensure you're actually getting the deal you thought you're getting. I personally think you don't really know anything about women until you've dated / plated / fucked at least 20+, 30+ women. Most guys are sub 10.

When you are ready, go get married, who gives a fuck. But before that, it's a terrible idea in our society. Getting married as a young 24 year old who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground (aka most 24 year olds, myself included) is a terrible idea.

TRP is so against marriage because we are speaking to most men. Men who have not peaked in value.

That's my last point too. It's stupid to think about marriage if you have not peaked in value. Like that dumb motherfucker on here who married a average girl (6.5 -7) when he was a broke student in med school, and then he's miserable because he's surrounded by all these prettier, smarter crawling all over him because he's a young fit surgeon. He negotiated the deal while his current value was low.

So many guys, soooo many guys are looking to negotiate the biggest deal of their life (marriage) when their value is low. I'm not saying never get married, I'm saying if you must, get your value to it's peak. Get close at least. Then you get the best woman you can get.

TRP to me is about helping men get to that peak. Once you get to that peak, you are a man. You can do whatever the fuck you want. You want to marry, quit your job and become a rapper, get into the cuckold fetish, travel the world, do meth, etc, go right ahead. I might think you're an idiot, but you're a man, the only thing you need to do is pursue your mission in life. End of story.

NeoreactionSafe · 2016-03-26T14:09:53+00:00

Marriage 1.0 was before the Child Support Laws.

The Child Support Laws came into existence in 1950.

This destroyed the masculine-to-feminine polarity in marriage because now a woman can at any time choose to Divorce Rape a man and not lose Access to resources.

"Men desire Freedom, Women desire Access."

...it's the Access to resources after a divorce that violates the Natural Laws and gives women the incentive to break the marriage.

Alpha simply means a man has a masculine polarity. Alpha can be seen as having both Frame (one's internal Freedom) and Game. (which is the Liberty to act on your own best interests)

Marriage 2.0 is simply a bad contract because on top of the Child Support Laws (which are truly dark) they add another layer of Alimony.

Masculine men do wish to operate within:

"Men love women, women love children, children love puppies."

...but you cannot be naive about it.

MattyAnon · 2016-03-26T15:37:02+00:00

I WANT to be the head of a family and i want my kids to have a mom and dad raise them.

Legally you are not the head of a family. You are there on your wife's whim. One call to the police "... I feel scared" and you're out. And by "out" I mean "no longer welcome in your own home", you'll naturally have to pay alimony and child support.

I am curious, why is TRP so against marriage and raising a family?

Marriage is clearly a dumb fucking idea for men. It pays a woman to be with you, then pays her to leave. No wonder it's so popular with them.

In terms of family - most here would like a viable option to have a family, but we recognise that legally everything is stacked against us. And that includes women themselves. When she's got kids, you'll find you are bottom of the list of her priorities, reduced to nothing more than provider and disciplinarian. And as I say - only allowed to stick around on her say-so. And she knows it. And she will use this against you. The happy guys you see married? They all live under threatpoint. Their wives are free to go into periodic emotional meltdown, knowing the man doesn't have the realistic option to leave.

The guys I know who are married are staying married to keep their children. That's right - every day of their lives is spent with someone they don't want to be with in exchange for contact with the children that they do.

If these men had a realistic option of keeping their kids and leaving, the women would behave MUCH better.

But are there any other guys in here who are wanting to get married and raise a family?

Married - hell no. Never going to happen.

Family - legally and socially everything is against men here, and I'd dearly love to see that changed. Not going to happen any time soon sadly.

Overkillengine · 2016-03-26T10:57:14+00:00

For fuck's sake, you can raise a family without the magical piece of paper and ceremony. All those two things actually accomplish in the here and now that matters is ceding your ability to walk away (without severe financial damage) from a woman that is no longer bringing her part to the table. And that magical piece of paper does not enforce her bringing her part to the table anymore either. It has become an unequivocal liability for the majority of men.

How it happened 30, 50, or 5000 years ago does not matter today. We don't live then. We live now.

And if a particular woman wants to hold out for a ring before popping a baby out for you? Next. There are other women- ones that won't require you put your neck in a noose. Plus, you are male. One advantage men get is they retain their reproductive potential far longer than women do. That is significant negotiating power most men abdicate thoughtlessly in their thirst.

The only reason a modern man should marry is when the woman would lose far more in the divorce than he would, such as political ties, social status, she has more assets, etc. Or at least more than she would gain by violating the marriage contract. Outside of those edge cases it is a disadvantageous contract for men at best.

mikeburnfire · 2016-03-26T11:24:33+00:00

You are correct that being a head of household is masculine, and nobody can fault you for wanting to be a father. However, there are some serious problems with modern marriage that most men never consider until it's too late.

Here is a brief excerpt from IllimitableMen's article called, "THE CHOICE". I encourage you to read the entire thing, as it respectfully details the benefits and risks involved in modern marriage.

From the moment [a man] has said “I do”, a looming sword of Damocles stalks him, scrutinizing his every action. Too many mistakes and the sword falls, divorce will be initiated, and financial and emotional chaos is wrought.

Now of course there is an imbecilic, ignorant argument to be made that “not all women are like that“, and indeed this is true, not all women will whimsically detonate the divorce bomb. And yet a wise man in his prudence must ask himself “is my woman like that?” and then follow up this question with “if my woman is not like that, is it likely she could become like that?” in which case the resounding answer is “easily”.

If too much comfort is indulged, if too much is neglected or too much left to chance – the ruination of marital union is all but a certainty. A marriage is like a car hanging off a cliff, it requires the man driving to accelerate now and again to ensure the car does not tilt and fall into the ocean below. Like courting, in marriage the burden of performance is man’s to bear.

If man fails as a husband or is perceived to have failed, easily he loses everything; if his woman is an abysmal failure of a wife on the other hand, she gets a pay day and a fresh chance. In today’s society a woman’s marriage risk is minimal, and of course, this comes at the expense of man’s being astronomical. Women do not fear marriage because they have not a single reason to, men do because they have every reason to.

FULL ARTICLE HERE

[deleted] · 2016-03-26T12:50:10+00:00

Because of no fault divorce and a "You Go Gurrll" culture that promotes open hypergamy, getting married these days is like walking through a mine field. Sure, it's not guaranteed that you'll step on a mine and get blown up, but there's at least a 50-50 chance you will. Do you want to take that chance?

Entropy-7 · 2016-03-26T05:43:02+00:00

TRP is against marriage because in the USA there is a 43% divorce rate and there are enough horror stories that it seems like a bad idea (sort of like if you read enough stories about plane crashes then flying seems like a bad idea).

The theory is that if you are paying money for a woman just to play house with you, then you are her bitch. On the other hand, if she will have sex with you without you paying anything, then she is your bitch. Being a provider is fine but it sets you up to get cucked. So unless you are both "alpha" and a provider, getting married is a bad prospect: the potential is there for her to cheat on you and then if you divorce her she takes your kids and your money.

There are a number of risk factors associated with divorce. You can't necessarily lower the risk by consciously avoiding those factors but you can assess your situation going in. In many cases the risk going in is less than 10% for the right couple.

I want to get married and have kids but the window on that is closing as I age (I'm one of the only people in my family who is not divorced because I never got married). On the other hand, I live in China and while it is uncommon for a severely younger woman to marry and older Caucasian, in a country of 1.3 billion there are enough takers that it might be possible to find one in the next year.

I'm not sure what you define as "older intellectual women". My current dating range is between 27 and 34. And being intellectual is no inoculation against administering shit tests or wanting to be dominated.

TheRedStoic · 2016-03-26T16:54:45+00:00

Well, first off, check married redpill (I'm pretty sure you have). MRP is TRP on hard mode, and they'll be willing to help you before you enter a legal contract.

Secondly, trp is primarily based (to my knowledge) in the U.S. Which has an awful legal system in place to give all benefits to the woman in case of divorce, at zero risk. (rewards trading up or out of commitment).

Thirdly, TRP itself is a praxeology, not a philosophy. People have philosophies about trp. One of the most common types of ideology about trp involves a simple cost benefit analysis and risk assessment for any contract. (managing value).

Now this risk assessment, logically so, leads towards "don't get married". This is a general rule, with the beautiful thing about generalities being that there are outliers. The sad thing being that, if you think you're an outlier, you're probably not.

Fourth, the misconception of AWALT is rife among this community. All women are like that refers to potentiality, not inexorability. All women can succumb to pure hypergamous instincts under the right circumstances, much like saying that everyone has a price. (that price may never be found for some people, that is not the same as saying they are exempt from the rule) this also adds to the common disdain for marriage.

Fifth, ignore most of the responses in this thread, they're saturated with conflation, mistakes, bias, and projection. I'm presuming (giving benefit of doubt) that you'd prefer actionable information above a, here's why your wrong and I'm right dialog. (after scrolling down again you too make these easy butthurt mistakes, no hard feelings, most people suck at objective argument)

All in all it's in your best interest to do what aligns with your goals, but also to own the outcomes. If you want to get married, make yourself the absolute best available in her eyes, then keep improving from there, with the acceptance that random chance could still fuck you hard.

It's really your own question of risk vs reward, though this is rarely accurately performed when it comes to two peoples inclinations because people are not constants, they change. Even Moreso for you I would venture to say, since objectivity is key on such an assessment, and you seem to be anything but objective. In fact, I'd say you're every bit as sample biased as any poster in anger phase telling you marriage is irredeemable, impossible, and universally evil, you're just behind the opposing podium. (this is not bad, nor am I attacking you.)

Now I'm not attempting to insult, far from it, but what it really comes down to is this :

TLDR, evidence labels current western marriage as a major risk with minor to no gains which couldn't be achieved without the legal label. Do what you want, and accept the consequences.

Edit: happy to expand if needed. First finish your sidebar, then visit mrp and kill their sidebar and top posts of all time down to about 300ups minimum.

abdada · 2016-03-26T04:32:04+00:00

TRP isn't against marriage. TRP forums of omegas fantasizing about life are against marriage.

Alpha Bucks will have a goal of marriage.

If you want it, talk to a divorce lawyer tomorrow and ask what you should do beforehand. Own your house free and clear. Have your business paying dividends. Create a living trust. Build your retirement plan by 30. Have only business debt, not personal. Hide your income from everyone. Live frugally. Spend enthusiastically in private.

In your 30s, after your financial house is settled, find a younger woman who wants marriage. She won't likely be in a sorority at a college.

gonorealover · 2016-03-26T16:35:42+00:00

If you believe in TRP philosophy then DO NOT GET MARRIED

i repeat

DO

NOT

GET

MARRIED

A lot of comments and threads are being made by female redditors and blue pill posters . This subreddit has been infiltrated. Do not fall for this shit. They are female posters trying to convince us to go back to the plantation. This thread was most certainly made by either a female/bluepill poster .

apackofwankers · 2016-03-26T11:30:14+00:00

Dont get married. Write your own contract. Keep the state out of it.

RustyJack82 · 2016-03-26T06:35:48+00:00

I am not so sure why TRP pill acts like men who want to get married are just beta's. It makes me feel like I am part of a forum full of teens and guys in college. I also thought it was dumb to get married when i was young.

To be clear, getting married (at least in western society*) is not Beta (in the sense that natural Alphas also sometimes get married). Rather, getting married is Bluepill (in the sense that it means you fail to comprehend how the world REALLY works, aka Redpill).

But I am a man now, I WANT to be the head of a family and i want my kids to have a mom and dad raise them. I think being the leader of a family is a very masculine thing to do.

I too feel that being the head-of-family is indeed a masculine thing to do. The problem is that getting married is the FASTEST way to lose head-of-family status.

In western society*, once you're married, your wife can divorce you, take the family home, take half your paycheque for alimony, take sole custody of all your children, take the remaining half of your paycheque as child support (so total 3/4 your paycheque), and if she feels like it, throw in charges of domestic abuse for good measure. In practical terms, she has NOTHING to lose from a divorce. For her, its almost like pressing a button, and then you disappear from her life, but her lifestyle remains unchanged, and your money keeps flowing in.

Even if you cohabit without marriage (i.e. no alimony, and you keep the family home if it is solely in your name), if you have children, she can still sue for sole custody of the children and take 1/3 your paycheque for child support. So its still fairly dangerous, but less dangerous than marriage.

And because she wields this kind of power over you, she can use the THREAT of divorce (or the threat of taking the children away if you cohabit), to seize head-of-family status for herself. And of course, once you've lost head-of-family status, she has even LESS respect for you, to the extent that even if you do everything she says, she may divorce you anyway, just because "you're not the man you were, when she married you". Rare is the woman who will not be corrupted by this near absolute power, so rare that we call them "unicorns".

In some (though not all) circumstances, a redpill man can keep the wife reasonable, by pretending that he isn't afraid to walk away.

I am curious, why is TRP so against marriage and raising a family?

That is a misconception. TRP has nothing against marriage in and of itself. Rather, TRP is against marriage in western society* due to divorce rape laws. This is sometimes called Marriage 1.0 vs Marriage 2.0.

As for raising a family, opinions here are divided. Some here think that children aren't worth the trouble. Others (including me) aspire to have them someday, although perhaps, not within a marriage. See here: http://illimitablemen.com/2016/01/22/the-choice/

*Obviously, if you live in a society that does not have western-style divorce rape laws, then this does not apply to you... yet. However keep in mind that the rest of the world tends to want to emulate the west, so even if your society does not currently have divorce rape laws, it could well wind up with them someday.

Jax77789 · 2016-03-26T12:24:48+00:00

Yeah I have pondered over that some months ago and found an answer. As per Rollo Tomassi the reason not to marry is that it offers you nothing that you do not already have in an LTR.

bourbonhipster · 2016-03-26T13:48:12+00:00

If you want to be truly redpill, ignore the boyish preprogrammed responses you'll get from a bunch of forum goers looking for advice on the next lay. Raising a family with a woman without the contractual bounds of marriage is possible and can be as stable as any other married relationship. Marriage is not a requirement for a strong ltr.

Know if your goal is to have kids, in the US it matters not that you are technically single. You have a legal fiduciary responsibility that is court enforceable as a parent. The only bullet you dodge is equitable asset split and alimony.

No one's writing books about being alpha AF while raising a family. Your goals will conflict if you maintain hot lays are as important as siring children. Women's bodies temporarily change and hormonal influence continues on while breastfeeding.

Just be sure you have your shit together, are ready for the commitment before you leap. And when you do remember always your kids are most important. Also don't get lazy with the self improvement as a parent. Even children will shit test you from a relatively early age.

Fartfacethrowaway · 2016-03-26T14:43:27+00:00

Best advice: procreate with an already wealthy woman who wants the same things in life as you. The already wealthy part negates most of the bullshit laws against men. Only mostly though, you can still get screwed but not by much.

[deleted] · 2016-03-26T15:15:34+00:00

Then you take the risk and you pray. It's a one in a million type of situation.

[deleted] · 2016-03-26T15:48:48+00:00

I never said anything about being a beta.

The state will make you a beta if you get married. You're entering a partnership where failure actually helps your partner and destroys your life. Imagine paying all your extra cash every month for child support and living in an apartment while your old lady lives like a single person around your kids.

I've seen it time and time again.

Also, marriage never used to be so lopsided against men.

I can tell you're going to fuck this up just by your attitude. So I'm just going to say this again: Never. Get. Married.

[deleted] · 2016-03-26T17:38:18+00:00

What you need to remember is that while getting divorced is a raw deal for men, the chance of actually having it happen is much lower than reported. It's stated at around 30% for first time marriages and a whole lot of those are just plain idiots. You've got religious people getting married only so they can have sex, people getting married because they're pregnant, etc.

I'm not able to find the source right now but do some googling and you'll find a breakdown of risk factors for divorce. It's not hard to get the probability down into single digits.

Seriously, most people who get divorced do so because they don't even listen to the preacher. Every wedding I've been to the guy has said something along the lines of "this union is not to be entered into lightly, but with great thought and care." Too many people get married without really thinking it through and that's why so many get divorced.

AndiWW · 2016-03-26T17:51:59+00:00

I am against marriage but not against raising a family.

Marriage has been destroyed by the western feminist politicians.

Sir_Distic · 2016-03-26T19:33:16+00:00

TRP isn't about things "working on women" it's about becoming a better man by allowing yourself to have principles, goals, standards and enough knowledge to lead the life YOU want to lead.

Go get married and have kids if you want. Give me a few reasons why it won't be a disaster. Did you fix the mistakes you made during your last relationship? The one you got fat in? If not you may make them again.

TruthOverLiez · 2016-03-26T20:49:38+00:00

If you choose to get married then choose carefully. Once you get divorced you may have to pay alimony or bare the stigma of divorce in society. A man may have also settled for an unsatisfying marriage and be unhappy.

idgaf- · 2016-03-26T21:53:50+00:00

You're borderline moralizing with your post but it's understandable since it's some deep insecurity you have:

the philosophy says something is wrong with me, not it?

TRP's stance on marriage has nothing to do about "being a man" or "being alpha". It's about recognizing an extremely one-sided government enforced contract and becoming aware of the massive amount of brainwashing (media, social pressure) out to pressure guys to sign blindly. Your post here contains much of the usual rhetoric. "Don't you want kids? Being head of a family is masculine, blah blah blah".

It's a contract, with only risks, and no tangible upside. It's a stupid idea. If you want family, do so through community institutions and not the government.

Well, isn't the goal to be such an alpha that your girl is not going to want to leave you? Isn't half of being an alpha having the confidence to make a girl yours in a way that your practically own her?, to win her over to the point so she will never want to leave? That is my goal.

You misunderstand the entire concept of alpha. It does not mean you gain control of others. It does not mean you can seduce anyone you like anywhere, and own them forever. It means seeing that such control does not exist. It simply means having control of yourself. Thinking for yourself. It means never "winning" anybody over because they are not the prize.

masnera · 2016-03-27T01:17:59+00:00

getting married/raising a family

its not that synonymous anymore, getting MARRIED is for the system, while RAISING A FAMILY is for mans natures call, provided that one is mentally/financially capable to maintain it.

theeverywhereman · 2016-03-26T14:28:08+00:00

You can get everything in life without the trouble of marriage so why would I?

RPSnuggles · 2016-03-26T13:07:38+00:00

Don't marry a cunt. Find a woman from stable parents and as little baggage as possible at the age of 23-26.

Don't get married until you sow your seed over alot of women. Nothin sadder than an old man who never lived.

change_is_upon_me · 2016-03-26T07:37:59+00:00

You can never win her over to the point where she doesn't want to leave. That's not how female nature works. They all leave. Its how they're programmed. The only way to keep a woman from cheating is being the most high value man in the world & keeping her attached to you at all times, 24/7 365. Otherwise she's gonna cheat.

TL;DR: all women cheat, all of them leave, enjoy the decline.

Apexk9 · 2016-03-26T05:03:32+00:00

Why do you have to be married to raise a family?

Can you and a women not coinhabit a dwelling while raising children without involving the state in a arbitrary ceremony?

Title	But What if you WANT to raise a family?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	55
Comments	115
Date	March 26, 2016 4:29 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/4bzyj3/but_what_if_you_want_to_raise_a_family/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/but-what-if-you-want-to-raise-a-family.57273 https://theredarchive.com/post/57273

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