My fiance was withholding sex. This is how I fought back.

Exactly_what_I_think · 2013-12-04T04:58:10+00:00

TLDR; Dread game works.

AgentSmith27 · 2013-12-04T06:15:03+00:00

If you don't like something, and its killing your relationship, you have to be vocal about it. You shouldn't hide how you feel and hope it gets better. If you are steaming angry, act steaming angry. Don't pussy foot around, be direct and blunt to a fault.

If its a deal breaker, then you should act like its a deal breaker. It never amazes me how many people fight over petty bullshit, but will just let serious grievances slide. Ideally, the opposite should be true.

Something people also don't understand is that your wife/fiance/gf might not be the same person after giving birth. Sometimes, the changes are minor, other times its drastic. It varies from person to person, but I know it can last a long time. The changes aren't always bad, but they can be. Depression, mood changes, sex drive, patience, and even overall personality can all be altered. I'm not making any excuses here, but its real, and a lot of guys are blindsided by this. My wife was friendly and bubbly for the entire time I've known her... but after she stopped producing breast milk around 6 months, it was like a switch flipped and she became almost evil. Around 11 months, its like the switch flipped back and she was never like that again.

apotshot · 2013-12-04T07:00:36+00:00

Idk man, I would snoop around a bit, that kind of hamstering about "we do stuff (except for sex!)" usually means they're boning some other guy or guys.

I hate to say it, but you need to do some inventory, especially since you're away from home so often. Just because she banged you doesn't mean she's not getting it from other guys.

abcd_z · 2013-12-04T05:57:16+00:00

Just a head's-up: verbalizing that she's fucking up and withdrawing attention/affection will work in the short-term, but over time she'll slip back into her old habits. I haven't been in this exact situation before, but I'm guessing one of two things will happen:

1) Your behavior will work to adjust her behavior, but you'll need to keep repeating it every time she starts slipping into her old behavior. This can be emotionally draining, but it is an option.

2) Your behavior will eventually stop motivating her to change. At this point she is effectively calling your bluff. If you actually sleep with other women she will pitch a shit-fest, but she will remain attracted to you, she will be more likely to put out, and even if she doesn't sleep with you you'll still get sex elsewhere. :)

If she calls your bluff through her inaction, and you don't go get sex elsewhere, this will teach her that your threats are empty and they will completely stop motivating her.

At which point you will be stuck in a sexless marriage, unwilling or unable to sleep around.

trplurker · 2013-12-04T04:55:30+00:00

You need to get your hands on the Married Man's Sex Life Primer. It deals with you situation exactly and how to handle the women such that she gives you what you want when you want.

Mightyskunk · 2013-12-04T08:12:04+00:00

She's your fiance? Better keep it that way. You get married, your sex life will end. I had a similar discussion with my wife(not fiance) in a similar situation, and though it worked out for me, it was one-in-a-million. Most women know that when you wife them they suddenly have a whole new set of powers, like divorce money, etc. Most women are sleazy enough to hold that over your head.

Invalidity · 2013-12-04T04:45:26+00:00

Bravo.

I hope though the message is clear and won't have to come up again. Anything you are doing to try to keep her happy, stop it. Your happiness comes first, and your happiness gives her something to work for and it will keep her occupied and satisfied.

Men fall into the old saying, "happy wife, happy life." That's bullshit. Unhappy husband = stressful environment, poor performance at work, possible lay off, financial troubles, etc. Unless she's the breadwinner in the family, your contributions are VITAL to the family's well-being.

Sex is easy for a woman to give. It's not difficult. The only reason it is difficult for her is because she no longer gets the tingles that you used to give her when you started dating her. Not because a guy demands it too much.

whatever6 · 2013-12-04T07:06:12+00:00

I let her make most decisions (mostly because I don't give a fuck about what couch I sit on, what curtains look better, etc)

Your original mistake. Women want to be lead. This is why the sex stopped. You stopped providing your many responsibilities (leadership) so she stopped providing her womanly responsibilities (her pussy).

Her not providing sex was not a cause of problems, it was a symptom. What you did was treat the symptom, but you did not treat the disease.

If you spend so much time on the road, listen to some podcasts. Black phillip and beige phillip.

abcd_z · 2013-12-04T07:13:12+00:00

I let her make most decisions

Thats the source of your problems.
Unfortunately, YOU have to make most of the decisions.
As you can evidence from your own experience,
give that ability to a woman and suddenly she might decide to withhold sex.

Even if you don't care what kind of couch you sit on,
or if you even like the one she picked out,
you have to show her that she was only providing an input,
while you make the ultimate decision what to get.

A lot of men do the mistake of allowing their woman to design their
interior in order to "give her some freedom and make her happy".
This will usually cascade into a clusterfuck we have witnessed today.

Always be relentless about EVERYTHING.

PastaToots · 2013-12-04T06:15:06+00:00

Literally went to town on her ass?

2013-12-04T07:49:01+00:00

Good insight. Best to never let it get to that point, of course, but if a relationship is slowly turning into a dead bedroom, showing a complete willingness to leave and get your own sex with someone else is the best way to keep it scorching.

I went on /DB once (the horror, the horror, the most beta group of people, men and women, and I have ever seen collected on one sub) and basically 99% of the problems there could be solved by the partner not getting any saying "I'm about to go fuck your best friend unless this changed in the very near future".

Even with pregnancy, a savvy woman knows that this is the time where she needs to do what she can. Handjobs, blowjobs, whatever. I've read in a few places its the most frequent time of male cheating, and it makes perfect sense. It's just reality, whether right or wrong, and you need to occasionally slap your women in the face with reality.

2013-12-04T09:36:09+00:00

Why do you feel guilty for any of this?

Couple things here:

Firstly, you communicated the right thing. Secondly, "snapping" is a sign that you suck balls at communication. If it takes you getting to the point of snapping to communicate that you will leave behind a sexless relationship then you need to learn to communicate sooner and to be more upfront and honest. Be your true self.

From the very beginning, when she started saying she didn't want to have sex anymore, while she was still pregnant, you should have immediately made it clear that if there wasn't going to be sex you wouldn't be in a monogamous relationship with her, you'd still take care of the kid, but no sex means you're gonna fuck other girls, period. That is what happens when sex is witheld and let her know that clearly. If after that she says she wants to wait a while on the sex, reiterate what will happen. Many times girls will test you, if she does and decides to withold sex anyways, go fuck another girl. I'm dead serious, go fuck another girl, because you cannot fuck around with this kind of shit with girls or you will end up in a sexless marriage. YOU WILL trust me. It's not cheating, you set the bounds of the relationship, she played chicken with it, and you followed through on what you clearly told her you would do. Don't even hide it from her, make it a known thing. Because she's not banging you, you're going out to have sex with someone else. It is very likely that she will renig on the no sex thing before you can even get to the point of banging another girl. You just need to show her that you are serious and you aren't fucking around. Furthermore, women tend to get hornier during pregnancy and there is nothing wrong with, nor is there any reason to stop having sex during pregnancy. After pregnancy women only need to rest from sex if they gave birth without a c section, and even then they only need a few weeks till their vagina is recovered. If they excercise and do kegels regularly that can even be as little as a few days.

Lastly, the reason she wasn't having sex with you is not her, and it wasn't the pregnancy, it was you. You were not acting enough like a man for her to want to fuck you, she thought that she had you wrapped around her finger unconditionally, and she did, so she had no reason to fuck you to keep you around. Women do that. If they feel they have you no matter what they will not fuck you, that is why most guys in marriages rarely get laid. That is a problem, and one you sure as hell should not causing for yourself. You say that "cheating is wrong". That is true to a degree. Cheating and lying about it is definitely wrong. But if you make it clear from the beginning that if sex is withheld you're out, then if she withholds sex it is not cheating for you to bang another girl, because those are the terms of your relationship. if she doesn't have sex with you you aren't in a relationship at all. There is no relationship if there is not sex. You are just friends. It doesn't matter how long you have been together, if there is not sex, you are not in a romantic relationship and you need to be very open about that being the facts. If you do that, it honestly will probably never even get to the point of you stepping out, just the threat is enough to keep her chasing you and sexually interested. BUT if she ever does test you, you have to act on it you have to fuck another girl, because otherwise she will see that you are lying and your words will no longer work and she will stop fucking you all over again.

Moneyley · 2013-12-04T18:29:37+00:00

In some of my old beta days, I had the same thing happen to me when I was engaged to my ex. She withheld sex over me not leveraging her toxic financial decisions. The affairs were torrid and some of the hottest sex I've had due to all the frustration. Props to you for putting your foot down and saving your relationship. As the main providers, we ask for very little, sex being one of them. When its withheld we explore all options.

Doctor_Mayhem · 2013-12-05T01:53:49+00:00

[permanently deleted]

masterrod · 2013-12-04T07:32:39+00:00

That's great.

Longterm though you have to look into why she's choosing not to sleep with you.

For example, you may not care about the couch but she likely cares that you care enough to validate her decision. Just like if you go to the mall with her. I am sure you could careless about the dress she might buy, but she cares you care enough to validate her. Clearly, based on the ultimatum she cares about your approval.

I really like ultimatum after your were patient with her "condition". This will surely happen again, but you should prepare an action cause an ultimatum has limited uses.

2013-12-04T15:01:57+00:00

She now sees it as a duty to have sex in order to make you stay. She doesn't fuck with you because she's attracted.

bigyellowtwinki · 2013-12-04T06:40:01+00:00

Just don't lower your SMV much and try not to let being yourself get in the way of your gaming her. Wives still need to be gamed, and you sure as hell shouldn't shower her with the affection she may even nag you for. Wives think that being married should alter the way a relationship is played out, but this is a sure path into a dead bedroom.

2013-12-04T11:18:38+00:00

nogamy doesn't usually last very long.

2013-12-04T13:51:11+00:00

Great story. I think you will really enjoy Corey Wayne's book at understandingrelationships.com (it's free to read online). He offers a "softer" version of TRP.

IAMTHEDEATHMACHINE · 2013-12-04T15:07:49+00:00

I felt terrible inside, morally

One of the main points I took away from The Way of Men by Jack Donovan was that being good at being a man is not at all the same as being a good man.

Masculinity doesn't always coincide with our definition(s) of morality.

Good on you, bud.

Tastysalad101 · 2013-12-04T16:19:53+00:00

She's your fiance you're already about to lose.

Archwinger · 2013-12-04T16:23:45+00:00

An ultimatum is the absolute, last resort, if you've done everything else and a wife/fiance/LTR still won't come around. Then, and only then, do you put your foot down and announce that if things don't change, you're out.

The "right" course of action is to improve your life. To be happy, valuable, and successful -- completely independent from your woman. Get fit (or more fit if you're already fit), get professionally successful (or moreso if you already are), get interesting hobbies and useful skills, get more socially apt, established, and successful, and most importantly, be confident, happy, and live a great life completely independent of your woman. At the same time, be a leader of your household -- you don't have to be an ass or micromanage everything. Just be the guy who takes responsibility and ownership for the major decisions -- when she asks you what couch to buy, it's because she doesn't want to be the responsible one who can get blamed if the couch sucks, breaks, or is ugly. You need to own the decision so that she can remain uninvested and blameless if things don't work out, and can blame you instead. She's hitching her wagon to yours, not the other way around. It's a serious burden for her if she has to take ownership and responsibility of any household decisions -- leadership isn't a role she signed up for when she became your fiance.

As you succeed at life (with our without your woman's support), she'll notice (especially if other women are interested in you). If she doesn't start shaping up on her own, that's the time to talk about the issue with her and lay down the law. Never lead with that.

Theycallmegrif · 2013-12-04T16:53:56+00:00

I had an ungodly amount of sappy one on one conversations about why she didn't want it. What I could do to make her want it. Blah blah blah. Countless hours of talking, massaging, and HOPING something would become of my efforts. What do you think became of it? Jack shit.

This is why you were a bitch. From your story it sounds like you went well over a year without sex (six+six+a few)... doing everything you could trying to be wiley and snake charm it out of her.

Give a woman a massage because you want to, not so she'll fuck you. Supplication is the lowest form of manipulation because it lowers you to her level and (as you saw), you don't get what you want.

2013-12-04T17:00:16+00:00

I think that was a really respectable (to both yourself and to her) way to go about it. You have your wants and needs, and so does she. In a marriage, both need to be satisfied or there will be problems. I'm curious as to why she said she was withholding sex.

Sex is definitely not something to be guilted into, let alone forced upon. As long as you didn't do either, then three cheers for sticking up for yourself matey!

2013-12-04T17:05:21+00:00

It's absolutely possible to maintain the high ground, using it your advantage while letting it be known there are other options if and when you are ready to exercise them.

BallsDeepInJesus · 2013-12-04T17:09:21+00:00

Countless hours of talking, massaging, and HOPING something would become of my efforts.

The problem is you reinforce her behavior. She is getting what she wants by not giving you what you want.

jagrmeister721 · 2013-12-04T17:21:36+00:00

So you had to snap at your woman in order for her to have sex with you- and that's a win? Dread game is subtle; as CH has said, it's something you do gradually "The key for the man is to adopt a posture of blase emotional distance alternated with loving tenderness." Over time, with push and pull, you create this natural dynamic where she wants to blow you. You can use the thermonuclear dread like you did, once, maybe twice -- and then it loses all effectiveness because she'll call your bluff (after all, you didn't leave her or cheat).

By blowing up at her, she is going to feel fear for a few weeks, and then go back to doing whatever she was doing, because you are going to go back to being a blue-piller. This is why LTRs are worse than plates. When a plate begins to require too much maintenance and you've used up your tricks, you can drop it and get another. With an LTR, you have to keep it up, and over time, she understands all the 'threats' are phony.

2013-12-05T00:59:17+00:00

1.Stop letting people make you feel bad about your sexuality. It's not dirty or gross or something to be ashamed of. Sex to men is EVERYTHING. EVERYTHING. Don't let anyone convince you differently. It's brainwashing to keep red pill men from impregnating everything moving and making women's lives even easier.

2.If you're not getting what you want SPEAK THE FUCK UP. You're a man, act like it, pussy.

3.Fear. Is. Everything to women. Fear and domination. Why do you think something like 85% of women stick with men who abuse them? Now, I am in no way advising hitting women--I think anyone who picks on those weaker than them is a coward--but if your woman isn't afraid of losing you then you're probably going to lose her.

darksoldierk · 2013-12-05T03:53:59+00:00

Only problem I see with this is, she now knows your breaking point. I don't know your wife, and I'm not saying that all women do this, but I know for a fact that some women out there would use that to their advantage. You are, of course, right. If a man feels that his wife isn't fucking him enough, he should lay it all on the table and tell her straight up. But you shouldn't have to do that. Women aren't morons, they know that 6 months no sex= very frustrated human being. If they are not having sex with you for 6 months at a time than there is something seriously wrong. That's my two cents.

2013-12-04T12:49:42+00:00

[permanently deleted]

fiat_lux_ · 2013-12-04T07:16:41+00:00

First off, I want to express that I agree with a lot of content on here but there are things/rants that some people say that I don't agree with. That is neither here nor there, but potentially relevant later on.

That's the nice thing about insensitive subs like this. There's plenty of disagreement here.

You don't have to give a shit about what other people think. You can just listen, take what you need, ignore what you don't like at your own risk/discretion. Not as much passive aggressive bullshit because all the anger is out in the open.

You personally have your own morals or principals, but aren't forcing them onto others here because you respect that it's orthogonal to the discussion here.

HeadingRed · 2013-12-04T09:53:01+00:00

Good to see you got what you wanted. I don't agree with everything here either- and that's why I keep on coming back. If all I read\heard was what I already accepted there would not be any point.

I now comprehend there's game for picking up women, game for your GF, game for your wife. There's game for the office. The point of TRP is listening to the points of view and the experiences that created those points of view.

Then you make adjustments and make your life better. Sometimes it's just your life. In your case you just made your whole families life better- you and your wife might be on the road to a better marriage, and your kid has a better shot a having quality parents in his life.

UOLZEMOS · 2013-12-04T10:42:50+00:00

If I may ask, when you asked this woman why the hold out, what did she say? I can't imagine her just saying the same bullshit of "Oh...I don't know..." - I'm actually interested in hearing what reasons she just abstained, if you don't mind that is.

2013-12-04T11:11:56+00:00

Your fiance is the man you plan to marry; your fiancee (or fiancée) is the woman you plan to marry.

This is confusing. What are your genders?

2013-12-04T06:30:20+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	My fiance was withholding sex. This is how I fought back.
Author	Pretending_To_Care
Upvotes	200
Comments	115
Date	December 4, 2013 4:28 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1s1yfn/my_fiance_was_withholding_sex_this_is_how_i/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/my-fiance-was-withholding-sex-this-is-how-i-fought.8480 https://theredarchive.com/post/8480

Comments