I am a Muslim man who is starting to be disgusted by westernization.

Lethn · 2015-11-18T11:32:03+00:00

I would argue that this isn't to do with the west but feminism itself, this is why they have no problem with defending radical Islam because both their long term goals are domination and subjugation of a gender.

The only difference is that radical Islam seeks to dominate women and feminism seeks to dominate men. Unfortunately like others you're discovering this through experience rather than through all the warnings people have given over the years. We are under assault by people who want to usurp our governments and destroy the laws that protect people and they're doing it slowly one step at a time.

Unfortunately unless your friend is willing to get out of that shitty situation himself there isn't really much you can do.

Quimbymouse · 2015-11-18T14:27:11+00:00

[permanently deleted]

dungone · 2015-11-18T13:06:46+00:00

I am a Muslim man who is starting to be disgusted by westernization.

I'm not saying that western civilization is perfect, but it's certainly a hell of a lot better than what's going on in the Muslim world. I know plenty of Muslim men who got absolutely fucked over by their culture's ridiculous ideas about relationships. And I know plenty of Muslim women who play the victim card as good or better than Western feminists.

I know about radical Islam, but it feels like this kind of radical western Feminism is even worse.

Really? You're going to go there so soon after ISIS murdered hundreds of Westerners in terrorist attacks?

192873982 · 2015-11-18T13:14:11+00:00

By what you wrote I definitely see that you are just as indoctrinated as those feminists. I don't mean to offend you with that and I definitely agree that a lot of things are messed up in the west, but I better elaborate what I mean.

First, the definition of "wife" is that a woman is legally married. So a woman is a wife from the time she married, until the marriage ended. If she cheats, she still is a wife. She stops being a wife when he dies or when they divorce. So don't use the term "by definition", when you don't follow the definition. You can have the opinion that a cheating spouse should automatically end the marriage, but then write that and not something completely different.

Second, you are right that it is messed up that a man can be cheated into paying alimony without any possibility to fight back. That's why the MRM exists, because our (western) society tends to fight things that are wrong, at least it does so in the long term.

And while it is messed up, I disagree that it is worse than radical islam, since radical islam kills thousands of people (mostly muslims) and feminism doesn't kill many men, at least nor directly. By any standard, radical islam is way worse than radical feminism. But if you disagree, we should probably both look at it from a non-emotional point of view. Pick an objective way to measure how bad something is, and then we'll apply these measurement to both radical feminism and radical islam.

How has this kind of thing be allowed to happen? Because of the empathy gap. The empathy gap has always existed and it does exist in muslim countries just as much as it does in western countries. The second thing neccessary was that the general population was not smart enough to not listen to illogical arguments. E.g. if we look at the gender pay gap, the only thing that would prove a gender pay gap would be a study that includes all relevant factors. But the people tended to believe in the gender pay gap because of studies that didn't include any factors at all, except the gender of course. That requirement is also a given in the muslim world, the people in the muslim world are just as likely to believe such false information. Generally religiosity is probably the best measurement of how likely people are to believe things without questioning, so that's probably even worse in the muslim world. Also women are generally more affine to religion than men, which explains a lot. The third and last requirement is that women where given enough power to influence society. This is not a bad thing if society is mature enough, but it seems that people have been too stupid to fight off the illogical arguments of feminists. Muslim world is in no way mature enough to fight illogical arguments, just as western society isn't. The reason the muslim world was spared from that bullshit is that they just didn't give power to women. Just to be clear, I don't advocate for taking womens influence, I advocate for maturing our society.

What can you do for your friend? Hard question. He will have to sacrifice things in any case, the question is what he is the most willing to sacrifice. He can either flee and go somewhere else or he can pay or he can fight. The last option is the risky one that can either turn out to be the best or the worst option, but most likely the worst.

I agree that it is unbelieveable for many muslims to move to the west. They move to a society they don't like, just for a little money, when they could stay, work together, and build a paradise for themselves.

The west is in no way perfect, not even better than the muslim world, but also not worse. The society here is different and we have some things that are shitty, and you have some things that are shitty. However the term western has little to do with feminism, since western values are quite old and feminism is quite young compared to that.

badass_panda · 2015-11-18T14:05:24+00:00

Second he describes that if he leaves he will have to pay money for the raising of these extramarital conceived children.

Ok, so historically this was intended to ensure that the kids would get taken care of, because until this century it was more or less impossible to prove whose they were; no way to tell the difference in the 1970s between a dad who just wants an out from his family and someone in your friends' situation.

Now, we need some reform of child support laws; if the 'dad' can prove he isn't the father, and can prove (via DNA test) who is, then duty for child support should fall on that third party. The most important thing, once kids are in the picture, has gotta be to make sure that they're taken care of... It isn't their fault that this lady is a cunt.

ThouShaltNotBeACunt · 2015-11-18T13:35:41+00:00

You're just making a broad generalization of the West. That's like me assuming you're a terrorist. Is the West perfect? No, but I'll take it over sharia law any day of the week.

2015-11-18T12:08:40+00:00

We hate parts of our culture as well. Western culture triggers my gag reflex. It's like a creepy mix of vagina-worship, self-worship, victimization, and greed/consumerism. Of course, I don't think I'd like your culture either. I dislike the majority of cultures that exist right now, but that's a different issue.

DavidByron2 · 2015-11-18T14:25:17+00:00

Your friend getting cuckolded is worse than your friend being killed in a terrorist attack?

Fuck you.

PunchyPalooka · 2015-11-18T12:56:30+00:00

There's a happy medium between the idea of women being chattel and the property of a man, and women not going around saddling men with children that aren't theirs and sitting on a forest of cocks with no shame whatsoever.

In this culture they judge me as harshly as you for asking for common decency.

Kinbaku_enthusiast · 2015-11-18T17:09:20+00:00

I am a westerner disgusted by islamisation. Maybe we should start a drinking club and talk about it.

Oh wait you can't drink.

Maybe we should listen to some music... oh wait.

2015-11-18T14:51:51+00:00

You might be making things a liiiiittle too black and white buddy.

The_Punniest · 2015-11-18T14:59:13+00:00

Sup /pol/? This is the meme themed OP we need right now.

2015-11-18T15:17:43+00:00

Welcome to ANGLO feminism. Men get all the obligations and women get all the benefits.

Men are literally slaves to the female imperative in the West.

Wonder why Islam is taking over so quickly?

2015-11-18T16:46:39+00:00

Just cuck my shit up fam.

SilencingNarrative · 2015-11-18T16:52:02+00:00

I don't know what country you are from, but suppose a woman has been beating up her husband there. How does the surrounding society react? Do the support the man, or blame him?

mycatatemyface · 2015-11-18T15:09:25+00:00

Bold title. And by bold i mean retarded.

I know about radical Islam, but it feels like this kind of radical western Feminism is even worse.

Jeez.

2015-11-18T13:36:41+00:00

Radical Islam seeks to make victims of everyone. Extremists have never run through a village and picked on one sect of society. They do horrid things to everyone they come across.

Second, you're allowing a female's actions to shape your judgment of an entire hemisphere. There are some fucked up feminist laws and beliefs that exist and those laws don't define a culture, but if you run away because of them then you've allowed them to win and they control you.

Wargame4life · 2015-11-18T12:44:32+00:00

your friend is a fucking idiot the UK is not the US, he is only responsible for his children, he does not have to pay for other men's children in that specific case if he can show they are not his. (unless he legally adopted them)

Eryemil · 2015-11-18T14:38:47+00:00

It is really unbelievable to me that many Muslims move to the west.

Is it, really? Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Western countries collectively are still the wealthiest, most powerful civilisation and the Islamic world is kind of a pit.

The west is hardly perfect, but what has "Muslim civilisation" given humanity recently? Apart from those horrible things which I need not even list. A couple of centuries ago the Muslim world was flourishing then it stagnated, crawled into a hole and has proceeded to sink into a protracted and painful death.

rangamatchstick · 2015-11-18T15:10:54+00:00

I'll take this Western hypocrisy over radical Islam any day of the week. At least she's not getting him beheaded.

TheRavenousRabbit · 2015-11-18T11:35:35+00:00

There is nothing you can do for your friend, however I suggest looking of lawyers that are also men's rights activists in your area and refer your friend to them. He needs a good lawyer. That is what you can do for your friend, beyond that, document all of this and slap it up on this reddit. Take it to a news papper, etc. Make a big thing out of it, a loud big thing out of it.

Mrdirtyvegas · 2015-11-18T13:21:04+00:00

At least in the US, most states have a 2 year window to establish paternity before you're stuck paying child support for a kid that's not yours. When my child was 6 months old I had a paternity test done just to be sure. It's his fault for not playing it safe. The laws exist to protect the children, and while it's not fair to the man, there is plenty of time to protect yourself. No one looked down on me for getting the test done, I wasn't shunned or chastised for it. Your friend picked a bad partner, shit happens.

Kingpink2 · 2015-11-18T14:02:01+00:00

Yes, the legal situation is such if you dont challenge fatherhood at birth you are on the hook.

sampson158 · 2015-11-18T14:18:37+00:00

he made the mistake of marrying her, 1. dont get married ever. 2. dont submit to a paternity test, ever. (unless it is a court order) 3. dont admit to being the father on paper, unless you want to pay child support. 4. dont stick your dick in crazy (see crazy hot/matrix)

if you break these rules it's your fault.

wanderer779 · 2015-11-18T14:18:54+00:00

I never know if the comments left here are real or if they are fishing for a response to make us look bad. I don't mind looking bad so I will go ahead and say that from the way I've seen men treated in the west I'm ready to try about anything else. I think it is pretty far-fetched, but if the Muslims take over our culture like everyone is screaming about I'm going to let it happen. I'll just throw on the robe or whatever it's called and pray to mecca and stop eating pork. If that's what I have to do to keep from getting booted out of my own family and made into a slave while some other dude fucks my wife, so be it.

Akesgeroth · 2015-11-18T14:19:49+00:00

I wouldn't call it a western value as much as a perversion of the aims of liberalism. People with no understand of what equality means.

newharddrive · 2015-11-18T14:23:01+00:00

There are many complexities to this story.

Do you think that a man should be allowed to make a child and then not pay to raise it? This is the origin of alimony payments.

Why did your friend stay with the woman when she cheated on him, making 2 children? This is more your friend's problem than that of the West. He is stupid.

His community is as it is. No one has to listen to the stupid community.

Moving to an Eastern country is not easy to do for most Westerners. There are language and culture problems. It is hard for most Easterners to make it in the West as well. Look at all the Muslims in the slums of Paris....

TheRealMouseRat · 2015-11-18T14:48:16+00:00

we need your help. by having radical muslims and radical feminists fight each other on politics they might even out on something similar to what most people want.

rangamatchstick · 2015-11-18T15:30:17+00:00

Initially I read this title and went "oh shit here we go", but you are right and most of us notice it as well. Sadly there is this whole "equal rights" bullshit going on that always sides with the women and men basically have no rights and yes are shunned into not leaving cheating women, so that they support the children so someone else doesnt have to. I have heard the argument "if the guy just leaves the children will feel horrible and deserted, permenantley effecting them", what are peoples thoughts on this? I can sympathise with this but at the same time they arent my kids and would want to go off and find a new loyal wife to pro create with.

2015-11-18T15:51:08+00:00

I somehow knew without looking this would be your first post and a new account. You are full of shit lol, just a terribly bad fake accent typed is hilarious. Hahahaha, lol.

Ovendice · 2015-11-18T15:57:53+00:00

Absolutely and a million times WORSE. Being cuckolded is only the tip of the iceberg of the nightmare. Just dating a man runs the risk of 20 years in prison for a false accusation of rape and that is the 'in' thing today and an epidemic to cover for women's guilt for feeling like a whore. All the courts are 100% completely there for women to use to rip off and extort men and everywhere you go you are treated like trash and worse: Like a rapist and child molester if you're male.

Yes, it does beg the question: Does a higher standard of living even matter when it's life in the middle of a minefield of nightmares and horror? And the risk of prison every second of the day for nothing and no future at all? No hope of having a family when women just eject the fathers of their children from the home the second they get bored and they have the God like power legally to do it?

2015-11-18T16:21:28+00:00

Oy vey!

Funcuz · 2015-11-18T16:28:37+00:00

I've both abandoned the West and refused to turn to Islam (or any other religion for that matter) I certainly don't see as few as two options.

I won't even consider going back to live in the Western world under the current paradigm.

icpierre · 2015-11-18T17:36:21+00:00

Ok I feel that you are being fed quite a bit of bullshit. Lets take this one step at a time:

Today I hear from my good friend in the UK that he has discovered he has been cuckolded. With at least two other men, his wife has children. They are 2 and 4 years old. Only one is his and is 5 years old. I would have thought it obvious that he would be supported in leaving his wife, but he describes a community that takes his wife's side and implores him to stay as it would be wrong and make him a bad man to leave.

---Marrying a woman that already has a child is not that strange in today's world. I do not understand about the children as you state the are 2 & 4, while his child is 5 years old. Many people and many people OF FAITH believe that infidelity is the cruelest and worst thing a spouse can do to their partner, however, if possible forgiveness and remaining married and working on the issues is the ideal solution. I believe your friend may be exaggerating the way people are talking about it with him. If I was in his shoes I sure as hell would feel that anything other than condemnation of a cheating spouse would be aggrevating, but not condemning the wife is not the same as chastising the husband for wanting to leave her.

First of all a woman who does that is by definition no longer a wife. This is simply not possible.

---Legally you are completely wrong. A wife is a wife until they are divorced. Your personal belief and religious opinions do not change the law.

Second he describes that if he leaves he will have to pay money for the raising of these extramarital conceived children.

---If he agreed that they were his children and raised them as his own then you are probably correct, however if these were children from a previous marriage or prior to marriage there may be some way out.

This is a sick and absolutely immoral practice. I know about radical Islam, but it feels like this kind of radical western Feminism is even worse. It is utter subjugation.

---What practice are you referring to? Child support? Yes it is subjugation and often times a man is put well below a woman and children, whether they are his or not.

How has this kind of thing been allowed to happen? What can I do for my friend? It seems only sane decision is to move out of this sick country to an eastern one. It is really unbelievable to me that many Muslims move to the west. They are dirt poor and seek economic uplifting, but this seems so sick it is better to stay. Is this really the truth in the west?

---Tell him to lawyer up and to stop all communication with the wife. No social media, no phone calls and especially no face to face confrontations. Yes women have rights in the west and honestly if that is a problem for you then you can move back east to a society that doesn't have those ideals. I wish that child support and divorce law was more fair regardless of the gender of the spouse, but these are the pros and cons of western civilization, at least for now.

Alkomb · 2015-11-18T18:53:08+00:00

[permanently deleted]

DavidByron2 · 2015-11-18T18:56:48+00:00

Well that conversation went south fast.

Seem to have run the dude who posted off which is sad.

Even if it was a troll, the comments seem reasonable.

2015-11-18T20:06:02+00:00

I smell a troll

PeteMullersKeyboard · 2015-11-18T20:10:10+00:00

Lol, you guys, there's no way this is for real. Get out of here, troll.

Revoran · 2015-11-18T13:05:18+00:00

Second he describes that if he leaves he will have to pay money for the raising of these extramarital conceived children.

This may or may not be true. It depends on the laws in his state/country. In some places, a man can be forced to pay child support even if children are not his own. But in other places, he can escape this by having a paternity test to prove the children are not his.

Your friend needs to talk to a lawyer.

They are dirt poor and seek economic uplifting, but this seems so sick it is better to stay. Is this really the truth in the west?

Not all western women are cheating assholes.

I think most westerners would agree that what she has done is immoral, but it is true there are some idiots here who would support her.

Qui-Gon_Booze · 2015-11-18T13:39:22+00:00

I know about radical Islam, but it feels like this kind of radical western Feminism is even worse.

Definitely not worse, but still very bad.

myevillaugh · 2015-11-18T13:43:12+00:00

I'm sorry about your friend. He probably needs to talk to a lawyer to explore his options. I know nothing about UK law, but there may be options a lawyer would know about.

2015-11-18T14:52:55+00:00

Second he describes that if he leaves he will have to pay money for the raising of these extramarital conceived children.

Really? Surely not if he can prove they are not his.

2015-11-18T15:07:26+00:00

[permanently deleted]

2015-11-18T16:57:03+00:00

I bet you wanna cut her vagina out don't ya, OP? Reported to the proper authorities. As a cucklord, I am king of the cucks. You'll get over it. And if you think radical feminism is worse than radical Islam, go to live leak and watch some beheading videos. You're an idiot. And no doubt a future enemy to slay. I look forward to it.

rg57 · 2015-11-18T17:05:16+00:00

Nothing is worse than dogma, including feminist dogma. And of dogma, nothing is worse than religious dogma.

There is a choice. Leave ALL the bull-crap behind.

Globalization101 · 2015-11-18T17:12:45+00:00

As an unapologetic Atheist, I say go fuck yourself. We've got enough moralizing going around with out your shit. IDC about your cuckholding anxiety. I don't give a shit about your religion. You probably should just go back home.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44vzMNG2fZc

2015-11-18T14:44:59+00:00

I'm sorry for the abuse that you are receiving, this shouldn't be about Islam primarily because it can apply to anyone from another culture looking through at this mess of a system we've built for ourselves.

My advice for your friend is to expatriate somewhere and never go back. Your friend is oppressed by his "wife", his government and society in general. Your friend is being abused and has nobody to help him. It's likely that he would be much happier elsewhere. Of course not everyone has the ability to do this in which case your friend should be finding people with the same issues so that they can form a strength in numbers and help protect each other from their oppressor through means of protest and lobbying.

2015-11-18T12:09:38+00:00

Everywhere sucks in one way or another. Just gotta weigh your options and pick your poison.

We work towards solving some of the problems, but it's an intensely gradual process. Society is not prone to rapid change.

thehumungus · 2015-11-18T15:09:07+00:00

This is not commonly accepted in the west.

wazzup987 · 2015-11-18T11:26:57+00:00

Go blow up a city fucking towelhead.

yikesmysexlife · 2015-11-18T15:48:24+00:00

Feminism is probably the only force working to correct issues like this. If women were perceived as equals, the law would not assume they were helpless without the support of the spouse that is leaving them, and has more to do with how convoluted and corrupt our family court system is than any feminist idea. Feminists may be silent about false rape accusations, but read acomments on any story about a man being assaulted by someone of any sex and you will find feminists insisting it is no less deplorable than man-on-woman sexual violence. And working actively to make safe environments for men to come forward and admit they have been violated in a society that tells them they are less of a man if they either didn't want it or couldn't fight it off.

Title	I am a Muslim man who is starting to be disgusted by westernization.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	73
Comments	162
Date	November 18, 2015 11:16 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3ta67g/i_am_a_muslim_man_who_is_starting_to_be_disgusted/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/i-am-a-muslim-man-who-is-starting-to-be-disgusted.966963 https://theredarchive.com/post/966963

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