Would you consider this hypothetical world to reflect feminist values?

PMmeareasontolive · 2022-09-11T22:55:08+00:00

I'm a guy, but I wouldn't interpret this particularly feminist at all because it feels like it's pressuring women into marrying and shaming them if they choose not to marry but still want to have sex. That's rather anti feminist.

you-arent-reading-it · 2022-09-11T20:42:17+00:00

The world you described is not even an Ideal one.

Both men as and women are treated equally

I don't think that's a good Idea.

and have access to participate in all kinds of jobs even though there are certain jobs men are more wide spread and certain jobs women are more wide spread in.

You just described first world countries right now.

Women have access to abortion

The access to abortion was available in the US just a few months ago. Now it depends on the states. I believe abortion should be legal at least for now, but unfortunately something recently happen and this law didn't make it easier. Traveling from states to states is still an option. In my country abortion is legal up to 6 months of pregnancy. I believe in equality, but it depends on what you mean. Some "equality" is bullshit.

and there is no wage gap.

Well that's good.

Premarital sex strongly discouraged

For women or men? I suppose for both. Idk but I don't see the benefits for that.

and no one cares to have premarital sex

Wtf. I don't think that's a good Idea. Think about the species eccetera. If you change marriage rules/society in a specific way, we might even start to think about that.

no gender double standards

Not a good Idea. It depends on what you mean by double standards.

and no body shamming.

I wouldn't agree to that.

IHateNormis · 2022-09-11T23:06:00+00:00

There is no wage gap now, if there was a wage gap companies would hire just females so they can have lower wage expenses.

Also feminists want premarital sex, in their ideal world there would be no marriage and Chads would have harems

RealNiceLady · 2022-09-11T23:27:55+00:00

Sounds like utopia

mcove97 · 2022-09-11T22:03:37+00:00

First you need to define what feminism means (to you). Is it the original dictionary definition, aka the advocacy of women rights on the basis of equality of the sexes, or is it something else, like the liberation of women from traditional gender roles? Because women and men too for that matter, have very different definitions of what feminism is nowadays.

If you stick to the textbook definition of feminism, I guess you could hypothetically argue that it reflects the original feminist values, which is equality of the sexes, but if you go after a more modern interpretation of feminism, that it is also the liberation of women from traditional gender roles and expectations, or as some feminist would call it, the liberation of women from the patriarchy, then all of a sudden you'll end up with a different answer.

Also, just because your hypothetical world would reflect the basic definition and value of feminism which is equality of the sexes, doesn't make it an ideal or even good world.

Also, hypotheticals aside, it would be practically impossible to erase the wage gap as biological female adults are the only ones capable of giving birth and nursing, which results in the wage gap due to making different choices due to their biological ability to give birth.

Also it wouldn't make sense that no one would care for premarital sex as not everyone is sexually compatible.

Gender double standards will exist for as long as men and women are different. Body shaming will exist as long as some bodies are deemed more attractive than others.

Also, marriage in the early 20s wouldn't be realistic unless somehow newly graduates can afford a wedding. Don't get me started on a house and kids. Not many earn enough money to buy a house or to raise kids straight our of college without going into severe debt.

Hypothetically, how would you solve these issues?

RazhL · 2022-09-12T00:14:49+00:00

Men can be ‘feminists’.

Just have to say, the whole of this post feels more like you’re baiting for certain responses.

rurunoa · 2022-09-12T07:14:17+00:00

yeah solely based off the fact that they have equal rights, there is no gender double standard & abortion is accessible

RStonePT · 2022-09-12T14:11:23+00:00

Lol. This will be the Reddit version of asking his wife what she wants for dinner, watch

J_Finch · 2022-09-12T15:00:42+00:00

I think you're going about this backwards. If you're looking to worldbuild you need to answer the basic questions of how, why, where, who and what. More specifically, how did society grow to represent these values, why are they held in the regard they are, where did this outgrowth of thinking begin and who were the motivators behind it, and what was the basis in which this system was established? Among other things this is putting the cart before the horse. It's not even about representing a certain set of values, but what is the history of those values in this world?

For example, what historical context does the term feminism have in this world you're building? Is it a primarily matriarchal or patriarchal society, and what historic events are there that broke down what barriers? What aspect of feminism are you are you exploring, because the topic itself has had several different meanings, objectives and perspectives in it's hundred-plus year history as a school of thought? There are a lot of buzzwords here but there's no real meat, just the paintbrush of modern feminism as an overlay that doesn't have any depth or description. Technically speaking yes, it does reflect a certain viewpoint of feminist values, and like I said, the top layer paints it as such, but if you want an actual commentary on if this is actually a world that reflects a feminist perspective you need to give a much deeper history and breakdown as to why things are the way they are, not just how.

Skadi793 · 2022-09-13T01:31:53+00:00

There are different kinds of feminists, and they have different ideologies and values

but what you describe sounds consistent with some of it. My wife was a "feminist" when she was younger, and loved Star Trek. She wanted to be a Science Officer going on adventures with guys and kicking ass in her own right lol. That is the first-wave, I-want-to-be-taken-seriously brand of feminism. That is totally fine, and fits in with what you describe.

2nd wave was sexual revolution stuff --now women are defined by their genitals and the more freely they use them, the more "free" they are. Needless to say, that was a disaster.

3rd wave is the abolishment of women altogether--they are merely members of an oppressed class and join the legions of the dispossessed. Anything resembling western culture is thrown out in true Neo-Marxist fashion. It is lesbian cat-lady feminism.

Hodgekin · 2022-09-13T14:03:31+00:00

I would say your worldview reflects a neo-Marxist value.

Both men as and women are treated equally in society and have access to participate in all kinds of jobs even though there are certain jobs men are more wide spread and certain jobs women are more wide spread in.

Men and women are for the most part, treated equally. It's because men and women are different that the outcome are different. The neo-Marxist ideology is that men and women are the same/interchangeable. This is a false idea. Men and women are different.

Women have access to abortion

I don't want to get too deep into this, but abortion is part of the neo-Marxist agenda.

and there is no wage gap.

There's no wage gap to begin with. It's been debunk over several decades but people still perpetuate the lie.

Premarital sex strongly discouraged and no one cares to have premarital sex

Now you're blending neo-Marxist views and totalitarianism. You can strongly discourage it. That's fine. BUT you can't make people not care about it. That's a level of control that will make North Korea proud.

there is no gender double standards

Again with the neo-Marxist worldview that there's no gender differences.

no body shamming

We need more body shamming. Countries with good looking people aren't shy about social shamming. The result of the west become overly obese is because we don't shame enough.

Consent and relationship skills are taught in educational systems

I'm done with the education system teaching about non-educational items. It's always starts with good intention then becomes perverted with ideology and politics. Parent's should take responsibility to teach their own kids about sex and relationships. School should be math/language predominately.

Most People marry in their early 20's.

As much as I agree with people getting married early and starting a family, I don't want it done through state coercion. I rather have parents be a good example of a healthy marriage and parents taking their time teaching their kids about the value of marriage and family. What we have wrong in our current system is welfare and bailouts for people who make the wrong mistakes in life.

Get rid of old age pension/retirement homes and people will have to consider having kids and raising them with love and care, or fund their own retirement.

People can go through life, giving 0 fucks about having kids, and when they become old, they go to daddy government asking for assistance on tax dollars that are paid by other people's children. It's a Ponzi scheme that everyone's forced to participate in.

Example, the Canadian pension plan has became a leverage liability. Funds that were collected under the CPP were suppose to be protected and invested. What the government has done is used that asset as collateral for increasing their national debt. On top of that, people of Canadian descent are having less and less children. Meaning less and less people paying into the Ponzi scheme. More and more people are entering their retirement age (the baby boomers), and the government is forced to import migrant workers to help keep the Ponzi scheme going.

greedyleopard42 · 2022-09-22T21:15:37+00:00

both men and women treated equally? that’s feminist.

for the longest time i didn’t want to describe myself as feminist because why would “feminism” be the word we use to describe gender equality? i understand how feminism started so it makes sense but still it would be a little nice to have an updated naming system.

but that’s the word they use, so i guess i’m just rolling with it

Title	Would you consider this hypothetical world to reflect feminist values?
Author	roseonyxa
Upvotes	0
Comments	37
Date	September 11, 2022 8:13 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/AllPillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/AllPillDebate/comments/xbsevv/would_you_consider_this_hypothetical_world_to/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/AllPillDebate/would-you-consider-this-hypothetical-world-to.1139594 https://theredarchive.com/post/1139594

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