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Would you consider this hypothetical world to reflect feminist values?

September 11, 2022
0 upvotes

So I am working on a world building project and I was wondering if this world of mines reflect feminist values. Trigger warning for sex positive folks, this post may not be suitable for you. Also would you want to live in this world are the one you currently live in?

Both men as and women are treated equally in society and have access to participate in all kinds of jobs even though there are certain jobs men are more wide spread and certain jobs women are more wide spread in. Women have access to abortion and there is no wage gap. Premarital sex strongly discouraged and no one cares to have premarital sex but there is no gender double standards and no body shamming. Consent and relationship skills are taught in educational systems. Most People marry in their early 20's.

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Post Information
Title Would you consider this hypothetical world to reflect feminist values?
Author roseonyxa
Upvotes 0
Comments 30
Date September 11, 2022 8:13 PM UTC (2 months ago)
Subreddit /r/AllPillDebate
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/AllPillDebate/would-you-consider-this-hypothetical-world-to.1139594
https://theredarchive.com/post/1139594
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/AllPillDebate/comments/xbsevv/would_you_consider_this_hypothetical_world_to/
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Comments

[–]PMmeareasontolive 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I'm a guy, but I wouldn't interpret this particularly feminist at all because it feels like it's pressuring women into marrying and shaming them if they choose not to marry but still want to have sex. That's rather anti feminist.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

I specifically said they don't shame women or men

[–]PMmeareasontolive 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

How else would you "strongly discourage" it?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Just don't teach people casual sex, I didn't know it was a thing until college. Also you can discourage cigerate use without shaming people who smoke

[–]PMmeareasontolive 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Just don't teach people casual sex,

No one is training people now, they are figuring it out on their own (via peers and media).

I didn't know it was a thing until college.

How is that possible? Are you male? Just no clue sex existed before college?

Also you can discourage cigerate use without shaming people who smoke

You have to come up with solid reasoning for it though, and then get that message out there. With smoking health effects aren't debatable. I'm not seeing any such argument being presented either for early marriage or against premarital sex. Without convincing reasoning people are going to feel you are arbitrarily impinging on their freedom to live their life as they see fit.

[–]you-arent-reading-it 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The world you described is not even an Ideal one.

Both men as and women are treated equally

I don't think that's a good Idea.

and have access to participate in all kinds of jobs even though there are certain jobs men are more wide spread and certain jobs women are more wide spread in.

You just described first world countries right now.

Women have access to abortion

The access to abortion was available in the US just a few months ago. Now it depends on the states. I believe abortion should be legal at least for now, but unfortunately something recently happen and this law didn't make it easier. Traveling from states to states is still an option. In my country abortion is legal up to 6 months of pregnancy. I believe in equality, but it depends on what you mean. Some "equality" is bullshit.

and there is no wage gap.

Well that's good.

Premarital sex strongly discouraged

For women or men? I suppose for both. Idk but I don't see the benefits for that.

and no one cares to have premarital sex

Wtf. I don't think that's a good Idea. Think about the species eccetera. If you change marriage rules/society in a specific way, we might even start to think about that.

no gender double standards

Not a good Idea. It depends on what you mean by double standards.

and no body shamming.

I wouldn't agree to that.

Consent and relationship skills are taught in educational systems

Very good to teach consent at school. Relationship skills? I don't think you can effectively teach them

Most people marry in their 20ies

I'm not sure about that. Maybe yes. It could be a good Idea.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Are you a women?

[–]you-arent-reading-it 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sometimes.

[–]IHateNormis 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

There is no wage gap now, if there was a wage gap companies would hire just females so they can have lower wage expenses.

Also feminists want premarital sex, in their ideal world there would be no marriage and Chads would have harems

[–]RealNiceLady -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sounds like utopia

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's a thought experiment

[–]mcove97NeutralPill 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

First you need to define what feminism means (to you). Is it the original dictionary definition, aka the advocacy of women rights on the basis of equality of the sexes, or is it something else, like the liberation of women from traditional gender roles? Because women and men too for that matter, have very different definitions of what feminism is nowadays.

If you stick to the textbook definition of feminism, I guess you could hypothetically argue that it reflects the original feminist values, which is equality of the sexes, but if you go after a more modern interpretation of feminism, that it is also the liberation of women from traditional gender roles and expectations, or as some feminist would call it, the liberation of women from the patriarchy, then all of a sudden you'll end up with a different answer.

Also, just because your hypothetical world would reflect the basic definition and value of feminism which is equality of the sexes, doesn't make it an ideal or even good world.

Also, hypotheticals aside, it would be practically impossible to erase the wage gap as biological female adults are the only ones capable of giving birth and nursing, which results in the wage gap due to making different choices due to their biological ability to give birth.

Also it wouldn't make sense that no one would care for premarital sex as not everyone is sexually compatible.

Gender double standards will exist for as long as men and women are different. Body shaming will exist as long as some bodies are deemed more attractive than others.

Also, marriage in the early 20s wouldn't be realistic unless somehow newly graduates can afford a wedding. Don't get me started on a house and kids. Not many earn enough money to buy a house or to raise kids straight our of college without going into severe debt.

Hypothetically, how would you solve these issues?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

I don't know where to start, I don't think you read my post at all. This is a hypothetical imaginary world that I worked on. It's part of my world building project. You are just projecting your personal experience onto my world

[–]mcove97NeutralPill 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I read your post. I wrote a response with my own thoughts due to how I interpreted it. I was simply sharing my own thoughts on the topic since you asked. If you didn't want me to project my own thoughts.. why ask though?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Bro I literally said in the first line this is my world building project how could you have missed that. you blatantly misinterpreted what I said mate

[–]mcove97NeutralPill 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

No bro (I'm a woman) but my bad. I edited my comment fyi

[–]RazhL 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Men can be ‘feminists’.

Just have to say, the whole of this post feels more like you’re baiting for certain responses.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

No I am just wondering what people would think about this. Is it wrong to ask questions?

[–]RazhL 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Nothing wrong, but its a common setup used for baiting. Sorry for assuming.

Am not a woman but will give my view anyways (iguess).
The only thing i see reflecting feminism is the parts suggesting equality. But 90% of your hypothethical world is already a majority western reality.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I am not trying to bait I just want fair responses. What is the 90% of my world that already exist in the west?

[–]RazhL 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Both genders treated majority equally.
Both genders having wide acces to jobs / Education.
Access to abortion.
No wage gap (not quite there yet, but im of opinion that we’re improving fast and its mostly the few top-salaries skewing numbers badly.)
Consent is taught in schools (cant teach relationship skills).
Most people marry in 20’s.

These are all widely available in the progressive west.

The only real lack is premarital sex. But i do not see that as feminist.

[–]rurunoa 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

yeah solely based off the fact that they have equal rights, there is no gender double standard & abortion is accessible

[–]RStonePTRedPill 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Lol. This will be the Reddit version of asking his wife what she wants for dinner, watch

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

What?

[–]RStonePTRedPill 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

you'll see.

[–]J_Finch 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think you're going about this backwards. If you're looking to worldbuild you need to answer the basic questions of how, why, where, who and what. More specifically, how did society grow to represent these values, why are they held in the regard they are, where did this outgrowth of thinking begin and who were the motivators behind it, and what was the basis in which this system was established? Among other things this is putting the cart before the horse. It's not even about representing a certain set of values, but what is the history of those values in this world?

For example, what historical context does the term feminism have in this world you're building? Is it a primarily matriarchal or patriarchal society, and what historic events are there that broke down what barriers? What aspect of feminism are you are you exploring, because the topic itself has had several different meanings, objectives and perspectives in it's hundred-plus year history as a school of thought? There are a lot of buzzwords here but there's no real meat, just the paintbrush of modern feminism as an overlay that doesn't have any depth or description. Technically speaking yes, it does reflect a certain viewpoint of feminist values, and like I said, the top layer paints it as such, but if you want an actual commentary on if this is actually a world that reflects a feminist perspective you need to give a much deeper history and breakdown as to why things are the way they are, not just how.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for your feed back it's well thought out and meaningful. The history behind my society is pretty complicated. Instead of evolving from chimp like ancestors my people evolved from gibbon like ancestors. Monogamy is ingrained in their dna and they cannot seperate sex from love because after they have sex they get attached. The society is neither patriarchal nor matriarchal. Feminism to my understanding is fight for equal rights

[–]Skadi793 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

There are different kinds of feminists, and they have different ideologies and values

but what you describe sounds consistent with some of it. My wife was a "feminist" when she was younger, and loved Star Trek. She wanted to be a Science Officer going on adventures with guys and kicking ass in her own right lol. That is the first-wave, I-want-to-be-taken-seriously brand of feminism. That is totally fine, and fits in with what you describe.

2nd wave was sexual revolution stuff --now women are defined by their genitals and the more freely they use them, the more "free" they are. Needless to say, that was a disaster.

3rd wave is the abolishment of women altogether--they are merely members of an oppressed class and join the legions of the dispossessed. Anything resembling western culture is thrown out in true Neo-Marxist fashion. It is lesbian cat-lady feminism.

[–]HodgekinWhitePill 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would say your worldview reflects a neo-Marxist value.

Both men as and women are treated equally in society and have access to participate in all kinds of jobs even though there are certain jobs men are more wide spread and certain jobs women are more wide spread in.

Men and women are for the most part, treated equally. It's because men and women are different that the outcome are different. The neo-Marxist ideology is that men and women are the same/interchangeable. This is a false idea. Men and women are different.

Women have access to abortion

I don't want to get too deep into this, but abortion is part of the neo-Marxist agenda.

and there is no wage gap.

There's no wage gap to begin with. It's been debunk over several decades but people still perpetuate the lie.

Premarital sex strongly discouraged and no one cares to have premarital sex

Now you're blending neo-Marxist views and totalitarianism. You can strongly discourage it. That's fine. BUT you can't make people not care about it. That's a level of control that will make North Korea proud.

there is no gender double standards

Again with the neo-Marxist worldview that there's no gender differences.

no body shamming

We need more body shamming. Countries with good looking people aren't shy about social shamming. The result of the west become overly obese is because we don't shame enough.

Consent and relationship skills are taught in educational systems

I'm done with the education system teaching about non-educational items. It's always starts with good intention then becomes perverted with ideology and politics. Parent's should take responsibility to teach their own kids about sex and relationships. School should be math/language predominately.

Most People marry in their early 20's.

As much as I agree with people getting married early and starting a family, I don't want it done through state coercion. I rather have parents be a good example of a healthy marriage and parents taking their time teaching their kids about the value of marriage and family. What we have wrong in our current system is welfare and bailouts for people who make the wrong mistakes in life.

Get rid of old age pension/retirement homes and people will have to consider having kids and raising them with love and care, or fund their own retirement.

People can go through life, giving 0 fucks about having kids, and when they become old, they go to daddy government asking for assistance on tax dollars that are paid by other people's children. It's a Ponzi scheme that everyone's forced to participate in.

Example, the Canadian pension plan has became a leverage liability. Funds that were collected under the CPP were suppose to be protected and invested. What the government has done is used that asset as collateral for increasing their national debt. On top of that, people of Canadian descent are having less and less children. Meaning less and less people paying into the Ponzi scheme. More and more people are entering their retirement age (the baby boomers), and the government is forced to import migrant workers to help keep the Ponzi scheme going.

[–]greedyleopard42 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

both men and women treated equally? that’s feminist.

for the longest time i didn’t want to describe myself as feminist because why would “feminism” be the word we use to describe gender equality? i understand how feminism started so it makes sense but still it would be a little nice to have an updated naming system.

but that’s the word they use, so i guess i’m just rolling with it

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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